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IR Creativeness in Composing Tunes and Handling Ragas

Topic started by Solo (@ 203.145.184.178) on Sat Jun 28 03:57:00 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

An abstract from classic article of IR.

"One of the greatest achievement of Illayaraja is that he appropriately used the best of the western and eastern classicism. To wield a huge orchestra is no joke. In many of his carnatic songs he has shown an uncanny skill in organising the orchestral music with a classical splendour. Handling of Carnatic Ragas is a childs play for him.

For instance,Vasantha is a fantastic ragam. Its arohanam and avarohanam are Sa Ma1 Ga3 Ma1 Da2 Ni3 Sa; Sa Ni3 Da2 Ma1 Ga3 Ri1 Sa. While traditionally it is believed that Boopalam is the ragam suitable for the dawn, Vasantha is the ragam suitable for the dusk. So, no wonder Illayaraja used this ragam for a duet which talks about the rain pouring during the dusk! "Andhi mazhai pozhigi- radhu" is a great song in the movie rajapaarvai. It is one of those early songs that showed the full fervency of Illayaraja's mind for creativity. The classical orchestral grandeur of this song was unbelievable.

Illayaraja starts the song with a prelude of "pop pop pop poboppo" by the chorus. The sudhdha madhyamam in Vasantha has served as the starting point for many classical krithis. Illayaraja too starts his "pop pop" in the madyamam like "Ma Ma Ma Ma Ga Ma Da". Classically, the transition from Ma to Da is not a straight one. There is a subtle Ni in between. That is, when the musicians say Da they go all the way to Ni and then drop down to the daivatham. Illayaraja starts the pallavi "andhi mazhai" like Ma Ma Ma, Ga Ma Da Ma Ga, Ga Ma Da Ma Ga Ma Ga Ri, Ma Ga Ga Ri Ri Sa. It is a beautiful start. All the hidden melody in the swaras of Vasantha are extracted in the pallavi itself. Even in the charanam his mind seems to be bent upon extracting all the melody in the Ga Ma Da transition. He starts the charanam like Ga Ma Da Ma, Ga Ma Da Ma, and the tune lingers there for a while!

Illayaraja has given many more Vasantha songs Recently he has tried Vasantha in a partial way in Paatu paadava. The song starts like "nil nil nil". It is a very different tune.

Nowadays Illayaraja makes a tune for Songs / BGMs in just a matter of few minutes. He writes the tune not only for the song, but for the entire orchestra in just a matter of few minutes! He doesn't seem to follow the primitive way of playing his tunes in the harmonium and seeing how it sounds. He seems to hear the tune in his "mind". It is amazing how these minds in the creative industry could be used in such an intelligent and time efficient manner."
Let us discuss some of his numbers

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Responses:

• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.160) on: Sat Jun 28 12:08:52 EDT 2003
  
  I would say a discussion of all songs and BGM in "Salangai Oli" would be a good lesson in Carnatic music and orchestrization, though I am not qualified enough to comment on them.
  
  
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: purv (@ 205.231.151.36) on: Sat Jun 28 15:29:18 EDT 2003
  
  Well, I don't remember any BGM pieces in 'Salangai Oli,' though I've viewed the movie once. However, I have the CD of it. Let me give you the rundown of the songs and which raagams they are set to.
  
  1. 'Om Namachivaaya' is set to raagam Hindolam.
  2. 'Vaan Pole Vanam Konda' is set to raagam Mohanam; the charanam I think uses the chinna gandharam in parts.
  3. 'Baalakanakamaaya' is set to raagam Atana. I couldn't give you the musical notation for this song.
  4. 'Naadha Vinodhangal' is set to Sriranjani in the pallavi. Then, for the charanam, the raagam is either Hamsanandhi, Vasantha, or Jeevanthika (I'm not sure which one-- I'll have to check Chidam's note page again)
  5. 'Mounamaana Neram' sounds like Pahadi, though I couldn't say for certain.
  6. 'Thakitha Thadhimi' is Shanmugapriya.
  7. And last, and certainly least, 'Vedham Anuvilam Naatham' is set to Hamsanandhi.
  
  I don't know the lyrics to the songs real well, so I can't provide much more. :-))
  
  
• From: ahi (@ 202.27.176.157) on: Sat Jun 28 20:07:38 EDT 2003
  
  There is a beautiful BGM piece that is played throughout the kamal-Jayapradha moments,i can't remember what raaga it was, it's played when Kamal visits Jayapradha at her house, also i think when Kamal looks at the photos that Jayapradha has taken, it's such a soothing melody.
  
  
• From: Teja (@ 66.54.1.38) on: Sat Jun 28 22:46:11 EDT 2003
  
  Sagara Sangamam (Salangai Oli) has the most melodious BGMs ever composed for a film. It's IR's all-time best.
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Jun 30 09:38:01 EDT 2003
  
  Guys
  When I think of Sagarasangamam, I think of that amazing violin pieces that IR used as part of the BGM for the movie, Oh what a treat!
  
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.4) on: Tue Jul 1 01:32:45 EDT 2003
  
  AIR features a program "Innisai arangam" where they select a few ragas and discuss how they are handled in film music. Yesterday;s full hour was devoted to Shuddha Danyaasi. Two of IR's songs were featured: The first, "Maancholai Kili dano"
  where the experts pointed to the effortless shift to Kharaharapriya (from which Shudha danyasi is derived) and in the second, "Vizhiyil Vizhundu"
  how quite a few gamakas had been handled with skill by IR.
  RR
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.171) on: Tue Jul 1 03:04:44 EDT 2003
  
  this is intended to only those IR fans who spoil other MD's threads and not to other music loving IR fans.....
  
  HEY HOPE I CAN CATCH ALL IR FANS HERE...U GUYS BETTER STAY OFF FROM ARR"S THREADS... DUNT SPOIL IT BY GIVING IMPOSSIBLY LONG MESSAGES.. WE ALL KNOW HOW CHEAP U GUYS ARE... DUNT PROVE IT AGAIN AND AGAIN....
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Tue Jul 1 04:33:42 EDT 2003
  
  MADDY:
  Also tell them that we can do the same to them at the latter stage when films like Sandiyar will release.
  
  I saw on IR's father do a thing some days before in IR album thread. Even though I don't approve his language and don't know which side he belongs to (He calls ARR also with names), I thought his posting was in relatiation to one in Boys thread.
  Now that technique is the one that I used long before.
  Hope these IR fans will never mind to force us to do such things again and will enjoy their solitary stay in their respective threads and let us enjoy Boys with full pleasure.
  Hope wisdom strikes them.
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Tue Jul 1 04:34:04 EDT 2003
  
  MADDY:
  Also tell them that we can do the same to them at the latter stage when films like Sandiyar will release.
  
  I saw one IR's father do a thing some days before in IR album thread. Even though I don't approve his language and don't know which side he belongs to (He calls ARR also with names), I thought his posting was in relatiation to one in Boys thread.
  Now that technique is the one that I used long before.
  Hope these IR fans will never mind to force us to do such things again and will enjoy their solitary stay in their respective threads and let us enjoy Boys with full pleasure.
  Hope wisdom strikes them.
  
  
• From: raj (@ 211.28.96.9) on: Wed Jul 2 08:56:26 EDT 2003
  
  are year and maddy,, then if u can discuess arr's handling of raagas here. in arr's music never heard songs like poo malai vangi vanthal, veli chalangaikal konda kalai makal, like pure carnatic songs or songs like kaalai nera poongkuyil.. like songs.
  arr is good, accept that he is a trend setter. but if u look at that way ir has set more than 3 or 4 trends..in tfm. and not all the md's following arr trend. only a few.. like hj following arr trend. and some new commers like diman also following arr. but the amazing thing is still most md's following ir trend. the fact is arr is good, but not good as ir(in his period).
  
  
• From: raj (@ 211.28.96.9) on: Wed Jul 2 09:16:33 EDT 2003
  
  but please dont discuess songs like mukala mukapula, chikupuku chikupuku raiyiley type of songs here.
  
  
• From: x (@ 209.47.143.226) on: Wed Jul 2 09:50:31 EDT 2003
  
  Maddy, AY: Why are you 2 so desperate? You know very well that this thread is for IR fans to discuss his handling of Ragas. You guys come here and tell IR fans not to intrude ARR's threads and spoil them. But isn't that what you guys are doing here? I can only see your vayatherichals. You guys started the Boys thread the day when Shankar announced the making of that movie. It's more than a year and only now you get to listen to them. But this thread is started recently to discuss IR's 25 years of work. You see the difference? You guys are already done with your Boys album and found nothing more to do and so come here and check our pulses?? Just a suggestion. Start a similar thread on ARR's handling of Ragas. If there isn't much to discuss for that topic then start something like ARR's handling of synthesizers and samplers or whatever..No body is going to stop you.. I guess you know who needs the wisdom.
  
  Yes Sandiyar songs will come out in a month (not after a year and a half) and you guys are as usual not going to like them. Anything else can be expected from you guys?
  
  
• From: raj (@ 211.28.96.71) on: Thu Jul 3 10:46:19 EDT 2003
  
  well i like ir.. and i beleive ir has done much more than arr. but i dont think sandiyar songs going to be a big hit..but im sure sandiyar bgm will fit to the movie and will take us to the situation. ir is too old to give big hit songs like in the past. i expect the songs will be average.
  
  
• From: Solo (@ 210.210.33.138) on: Thu Jul 3 11:30:53 EDT 2003
  
  To the Mad Sori Dog, who is peeping into all threads commenting nasty things in tamil.
  Pl. don't show your cheapness here.
  
  
• From: Solo (@ 210.210.33.138) on: Thu Jul 3 12:07:29 EDT 2003
  
  An interesting link
  http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/celeb_speak.html
  
  
• From: vkrish (@ 210.210.35.189) on: Sun Jul 6 08:48:19 EDT 2003
  
  RAJA'S CRATIVENESS IN COMPOSING BGM
  (Here are few interesting pieces from BGM thread)
  
  1. 'Oliyile Therivadhu Devadaya' - Listen to this lovely BGM in 'Azaghi' composed in a commanding style by IR at several scenes in the movie. Lovely mix of Guitar & Piano, worth watching the movie, just for this BGM.
  2. "Thevar Magan"...the scene when the hero shakthi takes over the mantle from his father.... he cuts his hair, sports a mushy and comes out and the people greet him with their folded hands as they see the dead man in the son... an outstanding peice of BG by IR - same with title music... a small bit but classy rendition of the theme music ...
  3. Salangai Oli. Man lovely pieces of BGM for Kamal-Jayaprada romance bits. A truly deserved national award for IR. Notice - Kamal sees the Invitation containing different dance forms with awe. The BGM style changes as the pages are turned...
  4. Kutty - where the girl is in the shopping mall and sees the toys around (terrific violin piece, very baroque) BGM at the end of Thankachi song - this comes in the end credits. A very very moving piece.Theme from Chinna Maharani is played. Raja shows his 'adhangam' on this society in this song. Chinna maharani song is played in various combination of instruments in different parts of
  the movie - good one esp. when Kutti loses her father and thinks about him, another one is when she dreams at the end sitting in the train that she would return to her village and see her mother/friends.
  5. Bharathi - the scene where Chellamma finds that Bharathi has bought books with all the money king has given him. A beautiful WCM piece with flute and violins.
  Listen to 'Mayil Pole' folk song in 'Bharati' turning Western Classic, when Deivayani & Shyaji meet for the first time.. Bharathi - scenes in Varanasi (Kasi) has good BGM, also whenever they show Ettayapuram palace. Other excellent pieces are: Nallathor vennai seithe theme which appears towards the end of the movie, Ninnai charan adainthen with a piano prelude (when Bharathi slaps his wife), dining at Arya's house, meeting Nivedita devi, etc.
  Wow - Lovely Imagination (A Must See Movie)
  6. Jhoney - the scenes where Sridevi & Rajni go for a shopping after they become friends ... No dialoges - just a violin & piano piece for around 5 mts. Excellent BGM to suit that particular situation. It creates a feeling of building a stronger relationship.
  7. Mouna Raagam - Watch the BGM when Kartik gets released from the police station with the help of revathy. The Guitar BGM starting from a tragedy note to a splendid happy Note.The same music repeats,repeats and repeats with different instruments ... It is indeed a pleasure to listen to that music.
  8. Unnal Mudiyum Thambi - An Excellent Scene with a Lovely piece of energetic BGM when the Old gardener shows the trees which he had planted long ago to kamal. And that is not the final. The same Music with an heart rendering style ( a tragedic piece) repeats when Kamal knows about the death of the gardener and he looks pathetically at the trees. A lovely imagination.
  9. Naayakan - The folk style BGM whenever the handicapped child of the Policeman appears.The
  sound creates a feeling of sympathy towards the child. But at the climax, when the child, now a grown up youth, shoots kamal.. the same folk style music turning violent.. a fantastic BGM worth listening.
  10. Aan Pavam - Listen to the BGM whenever Pandian meets Seetha at the river bank. Each time
  the music repeats it gives a stronger debth to the scene.
  
  
• From: vkrish (@ 210.210.35.189) on: Sun Jul 6 08:52:05 EDT 2003
  
  11. Moga Mul - Scene where venniradai ramamurthy come to see the girl, for the engagement.
  12. Ninaivellam Nithya - the theme music is explored to the maximum to bring out various
  emotions in the story.
  13. En bommukutti ammavukku - 2 bit songs in the BGM - kanne navamaniye, kalellam nogudhadi.
  Also the child theme in the bgm is very emotional.
  14. Guru (Malayalam) - Watch out the Scene where Mohanlal skids and lands in the land of Blind People. The Ultimate in BGM, on par with Hollyhood Standards. It is performed by Hungary Musicians.
  15. Watch out for 'Kadalukku Mariyadai'. The hero behind the execellent climax scene is just 'IR'. No Dialogue. Just Artist facial expressions & IR's apt music. It simply blows you out. Hats of to Fazil for fully exploiting the BGM of IR in each of his movies.
  16. "Naadodi thendral"... particularly the scene where the anglo-indian woman meets the hero in a hill.. and the hero makes fun of her whether she could run up the hill without shoes.. and she RUNS up the hill ..!!!.. a kinda BG that only a man called IR can give...
  17. Sindhu Bhairavi - Use of a Violin Bit during the song Kalaivani, in different Unmatched Scales just to imply that Mother and Daughter are still parted.
  18. Unnal Mudiyum Thambi - Usage of Lalitha Ragam in Western Style BGM where Seetha meets Kamal. Note Seetha's name in the movie is Lalithakamalam.
  19. Poove Poochoodava. Amazing songs and moving BGMs especially the veenai bit given for Nathiya's scenes and the sorrowful melody for Padmini's scenes. Also there is a baroque type
  movement when Nathiya sees the yellow roses outside her house, kept by SV Sekar.
  20.Idaiyathai Thirudaathe alias Geethanjali. The scene when Nagarjuna takes his mortality in the stride after talking to the heroine, his fast walk progressing into a sprightly jog, with a violin piece speeding up and striking more and more cheerful notes .... IR ! Thy name is BGM
  
  BGMs of anjali, poovizhi vaasalile, punnagai mannan, guna, Nizhalgal, Lazza...the list never ends.
  New MD never seem to give any importance to BGM, which enhances the value of the film. HJ is
  the only exception.
  IR is still creative and ruling in BGMs.
  
  

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