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P. Susheela Vs. Lata Mangeshkar

Topic started by Neels (@ ppp3-121.bom.vsnl.net.in) on Fri May 8 10:35:41 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I strongly feel that in spite of ruling the South Indian Cinema for so many decades, Susheela hasn't got the recognition she deserves...
In fact Susheela and S Janaki did to South Indian Music what Lata and Asha did for Hindi films... and yet, they haven't got their dues..
Forget nation-wide recognition (Read: Hindi Film Industry), even the music companies are not doing anything about it.. HMV for instance in Hindi has over the years come out with so many combinations of the "Golden Oldies" like Lata sings for Madan Mohan, Lata with Kishore, with such ans such artist,,, that the list seems endless.
Is it because the "Southies" can not market themselves???
Is there anyone out there listening???

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: RajaG (@ cerberus5.fon.sprintcorp.com) on: Wed Jan 13 18:30:06 EST 1999
  
  IMO Asha/SJ showed more versatility in expression than Lata/PS. Sticking to the TFM side, SJ's Ponmeni UrugudhEy (sensuous/seductive), Kuzhandhai kuralil paaduvadhu, vayasaana paatti kuralil paaduvadhu etc are genuine playback qualities which, I feel, PS did not exhibit.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Wed Jan 13 22:11:21 EST 1999
  
  Hallo RajaG!
  
  Oru playback singer-kku irukka vendiya MUDHAL THAGUDHI is to give 'proper modulation' according to the singer who comes on the screen, otherwise he/she is just a singer and not a play-back singer.
  
  HERE I STRONGLY REFUTE YOUR STATEMENT THAT PS DID NOT EXHIBIT GENUINE PLAYBACK QUALITIES. OOPS!!!
  EDHU SIR, 'GENUINE' PLAY BACK QUALITIES? KUZHANDHAI MADIRI PAADARADHA? KIZHAVI MADHIRI PAADARADHA? NAMMA CINEMAVULA VAZHAKKAMAA PAADARADHU HEROINE-AA ILLA KUZHANDAIYUM KIZHVIYUMA?
  
  I am not going to talk about the way PS modulated her voice according to the heroines because that was the life ground she survived on and succeeded coupled with the quality of her competitive singing.
  
  Oru paanai sotrukku oru soru padham-appadeena then, I'll give you one song each for PS' ability to be versatile. Please hear those songs if you can:
  
  1. Kuzhandaiyum Deivamum Gunaththal Ondru
  --Amazingly PS did not have to change her voice to sing for a 6 year old kid which Kutti Padmini is in that film, at all. Her voice just suited her.
  
  2. Vannathu Poochi Sirikkidhu Pala Vadivam Katti
  -- This song is from 'Kuruvikk Koodu' starring Sudhakar and Saritha, sung by SPB and PS. This is an example for where she changed her voice at some point toward the end of the song to sound like a 60 or 70 year old. Do hear that song.
  
  3. Her very popular club like song.
  
  -- 'Indru Vandha Indha Mayakkam' from 'Kaasedhaan Kadavuladaa' - I bet I have never heard in my life so far a sexy humming like that again. I bet you hear it and tell me how it was.
  
  4. A seductive song.
  -- 'ThuLith ThuLi ThuLith ThuLi Mazhaith ThuLi'
  from 'Pudhu Vellam'. You'll be amazed to find PS sing this sexy number.
  
  I'll ask you something: SJ kuzhandai madhiriyum, kizhavi madhiriyume eppavum paadittirundhaa ungalaala rasikka mudiyuma? Avanga eppavume appadi paadinaanganuu naa sollalai (though she has sung many such songs) Indha madhiri versatility eppavaavadhudhaan amaiyum. Thavira, ovvuru type songs-kkunnu ovvuru vidhamaana singers irukkaanga. Can anyone beat our L R Easwari to sing a sexy number?
  
  I totally accept that SJ could excel when she sings like a 3 year old. (Eg: Kanna Nee Enge from Rusi Kanda Poonai). I also like her 'Ponmeni Urughudhe' very much. But these are instances where she exhibited different styles of singing. Like say Asha. Asha can sing for a heroine as well as a vamp with utter distinction. She mostly sang only for vamps and club dancers because she would not have survived if she had tried to sing for heroines (which is what is more dominant in our films) in which area Latha was 'Mudi Sooda Manni'! But to be a complete singer I think you need more than mere versatility, which is where PS wins by great scores!
  
  
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.198) on: Thu Jan 14 00:57:06 EST 1999
  
  The song that Shanmugam suggested, "Aadum Neram Idhu Dhan Vava Vava" from the film Soora Samharam is in fact a seductive number and what's amazing is the fact that a song for which Janaki would've been the obvious choice, went to Susheela. And boy, she was fabulous... (The whooosh sound in the rhythm was exceptionally well used and complimented the singer's voice. IR's creativity blows me away!)
  
  Karthi,
  Probably SJ and Asha enjoyed singing those sensuous, fast and what we call as caberret/club numbers whereas PS and Lata enjoyed singing 'their' kind of numbers and didn't bother much about the other type, which went to the likes of Asha in Hindi and L R Eswari and SJ in Tamil.
  This definitely doesn't mean that either side was incapable of singing the 'other type' of songs.
  
  Asha and SJ proved their versatility in their classical/devotional albums, probably only to prove this point.
  
  
• From: Suresh (@ bluebird.qut.edu.au) on: Thu Jan 14 05:58:31 EST 1999
  
  My apologies upfront for deviating from the main topic.
  
  Karthi:
  
  At the risk of provoking you again, I wish to join RajaG in maintaining that SJ was more versatile than PS:-) In defining quality, shouldn't we settle on the fact that each one's perception is a relative measure? I like PS very much, but I can shout from my rooftop that i like SJ's voice much more. I can't put my finger on a concrete set of reasons like you're so capable of doing, let me put that down to my relative ignorance of the nuances of singing.
  
  Reg. the Asha vs. Lata debate, Lata's stranglehold of Hindi films was so total that nobody at that time dared to risk Asha for the 'mainstream' songs, except some stray gems from SDB (Bandhini, Sahib Bibi aur Ghulam..) IMO, her "Bhanvra Bade" in S-B-aur-G is as good as any of Lata's. We can turn around the argument and say that Asha's voice stood the test of time while Lata embarasses herself with such forgettable renditions as in Maine Pyar Kiya to the recent 'Jiya Jale'. Again, this is my pers. opinion.
  
  I'm happy enough to still stand by SJ even if it means that I don't possess a "a sense of appreciation for perfect rendition, and good taste for melody and, a keen ear for quality voice"
  Well, if you still insist that "those who do not have any of these are just not fit even to listen to PS let alone make comments", I'm happy to stay out this forum. Much as I admire your total sense of appreciation to PS, I just think that you need to understand that us 'paamarans' also have a right to choose our favourites without having to prove our worth as music critics or connoisseurs.
  
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Thu Jan 14 11:55:46 EST 1999
  
  It might be digression on sheer merits between PS and Lata.Lata had this dubious reputation of
  threatning music directors if they used different playback singers.There have been innumerable occasions when upcoming singers have been shelved not b'cause they lacked in quality but b'cause of lata's unethical behaviour.Example being Vani jayaram,hemalata(chitchor!awesome voice and great modulation.I can'nt think of a better debut).
  This is a big bolt(unofficial) in Lata's carrer as opposed to PS who was magnanimous enough to allow SJ and other singers despite PS enjoying a massive clout in tamil films.
  My opinion on Lata,a talented great singer and one of the many nightangles of India film music and the most overhyped artiste in India with MS.subbulakshmi closely following lata in the overhyped category.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Thu Jan 14 13:11:56 EST 1999
  
  Suresh,
  Hemant Kumar scored the music for "Sahib Biwi Aur Ghulam".
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Jan 14 14:01:40 EST 1999
  
  Suresh,
  
  Obviously, everyone has the right to choose their favourites. But, what I want to say is that, Karthi gave that statement to all those people who commented on PS' voice as "Old but not Gold" and other such comments. I had mentioned about this in this thread when I feared that the younger generation as totally forgotten PS and Karthi had replied to me like that. He didn't mean that to fans of other singers. Instead, he meant that to people who made harsh and unethical comments on PS' voice and talents. So, don't get emotional. You like SJ. That is your right. Similarly, I like Chithra. But, I also feel, like Karthi, that PS is the best singer. So, it all depends on person to person and no one is denying that.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Jan 14 14:04:51 EST 1999
  
  Anand Mahadevan,
  
  Good points. I second your opinion. But, I don't think that MS is that much over-hyped to call her the next over-hyped singer after Lata. Most of the HFM singers are over-hyped much more than MS, even though MS is far ahead of the rest.
  
  
• From: RajaG (@ cerberus5.fon.sprintcorp.com) on: Thu Jan 14 14:54:24 EST 1999
  
  Karthi,
  
  At the time of IR's entry into TFM as MD, PS was still the prime female lead singer. If I had to guess, she probably was singing about 70% to 80% of the female led songs. Once IR came into dominance, he chose SJ to sing most of his songs. In fact, if I remember corectly (though I cannot provide references), IR said that SJ's was the most underutilized voice in TFM especially considering the talent and versatility. Here's another one for you to ponder. I will liken the versatility differences similar to the difference between SPB and KJY (though between PS and SJ the variance is smaller).
  
  On a totally different point, I agree totally with Anand Mahadevan in saying that MS is overhyped (probably because of her "pattupudavai pOththindu ettukkal bEsariyoda" maami image).
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Jan 14 15:40:22 EST 1999
  
  RajaG,
  
  It was the same IR who also told that "andha amma (PS) maadhiri paada mudiyaadhu". SJ is a great singer. There can be no second thoughts about that. She excels in certain facets (modulation, expression) of singing and PS is outstanding in other facets (consistent voice at high pitches, inimitable sweet voice). I would like to say that PS and SJ are both very good singers. The reason why SJ was more popular than PS in the 80s was because of the musical genius IR opting her for most of the songs. Also, SJ got a lot of chances to prove her versatility like how she sang for kids and kizhavis. Karthi has pointed out some similar songs sung by PS. That cannot be taken as a reference for proving a singer's versatility. One area where SJ is far ahead of any other singer, let alone PS, is the way she modulates her voice. Also, the different trend in TFM demanded a different voice to go in tune with the different music and SJ was the obvious choice. But, IMO, I would rate PS followed by SJ followed by Chithra as the best TFM singers and I would definitely rate PS and SJ better than any HFM singer.
  
  Oh God, we are deviating a lot from the topic, I guess. It is actually PS vs LM. How come SJ and MSS came here?
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss07.ny.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Jan 14 15:54:55 EST 1999
  
  For what it's worth I would like to register my strong protest against the claims that MS is overhyped. Agreed, there have been better singers in the past who have not been accorded the recognition that MS has got. But that does not mean that MS is over-hyped. It simply means that the others have been ignored. Call it luck, call it image, call it whatever you want. MS richly deserves the accolades that she has got.
  
  RajaG:
  Everybody has an image. PS with her over-the-shoulder pallu, LM with her white saris, SJ with her jumbo-sized pottu, KJY with his beard and kurta-pyjama, SPB with his kurta-pyjama and humoungous belly, Deva with his "own" kurta-pyjama (may even be "borrowed", given the man's background) and the 'classic' whites on his side-burns, ARR with his jilpa thalai, IR with his mottai, Annu Malik with his beads, Bappi Lahiri with his chains...and the list goes on and on. It is terribly unfair if we use these physical attributes to judge an artiste. Listen to Unnikrishnan's version of "Kurai onrum illai" and then listen to MS' version. When it comes to emoting, these people cannot even hold a candle to MS. I sincerely wish you retract your biased statement.
  
  BTW, this is a discussion about PS and LM. Please keep MS and SJ out of this. I suppose most of you can't find enough to speak about either LM or PS and hence launch into rhetoric on other artistes. Unfair is the word to describe it.
  
  

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