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Analysis of Maestro Ilayaraaja's works

Topic started by Music fan (@ 208.154.130.13) on Tue Oct 10 14:34:19 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Dear fans of music

Of late, there have been many threads in this forum discussing about IR and his music in general. I don't deny that. But many have been just discussing his new albums, his new projects or in general very superficial which does not delve much into the analysis of his compositions. Maestro Ilayaraaja is a peerless composer and he is one of the very few to compose around 4000+ songs and compose music for around 800 movies. He writes music and his creations show his ingenuity. In this topic, I request the musically learned people to analyze some of his great works.

As a starter, please analyze the song "thendral vandhu theendum bodhu" from Avatharam. Please let us know the intricacies the Maestro has used to create this number. Since I am a lay man in music, I do not have much to say about this song, except that the song is in the lines of western classical music. The song is harmonious and great to listen to.

Needless to say, I believe this topic is never a waste of time. Not many have the opportunity/skill to analyze a great composer's music. So, on behalf of music lovers and fans I request people to participate here and analyze many of the gems given by Maestro.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Venkatesh (@ 206.49.110.156) on: Sat Oct 21 07:49:08 EDT 2000
  
  rjay, srikanth
  Shall we take Niram Pirithu Parthen for our next discussion topic? Thanks.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 64.160.54.137) on: Sat Oct 21 14:51:39 EDT 2000
  
  ok..... i have some few songs which can u all analyze pls.. (just heard these songs in SUN TV LIVE)
  
  1. Movie : Agal Vizhaku - Song - Edho Ninaivugal, Kanavugal by KJY and SPShailaja (whoever want to analyse this song, my kind request pls pls do not watch this movie clipping else u might not like the song :-) (oh man, how many songs like this from IR has been spoiled due ro very very very bad picturization, and that too i can't believe that Shobha had sung this song with so much bad movements - may be she can't be blamed, but the dance director)
  
  2. Magudi - Neelakuilee Unnodu naan pan baduveen by SPB and SJ)..... both SPB and SJ have given a lot of life to the song really.....
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.16.85) on: Sat Oct 21 19:41:14 EDT 2000
  
  SK, you are right!!! The impact matters to me, that's all. But it's different with Rjay ,rajaG and Srikanth who are composers. It is quite natural for them to lay it thread bare under the 'microscope' and compare with what they would have done had they been in the MD's shoes. IR himself has gone on record about how he went into the styles of the likes of SDB, MSV, GR, SVV and Madan Mohan and later on carved out a niche of hiw own. I guess what made him successful was he never relinquished his heart despite all the mind games. He managed to balance out both aspects. I agree with your other point too, excessive knowledge can make you insensitive, often results in a methodical way of listening rather than being spontaneous about it.
  
  But with IR's singing, his sruthi slips vie for special attention all by themselves, they upset the apple cart. Numbers like 'Kaathal Oviyam','MalarE pEsu mouna mozhi' were all pulverised by IR's singing. His recent number in 'Sethu' is a notable exception. Inspite of all the above mentioned flaws I have not stopped listening to those numbers, therefore the heart takes over and the mistakes are forgotten while listening.
  
  Ofcourse, for the rest , sorry for digressing :)
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Sun Oct 22 20:50:33 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay and SL:
  
  Thanks for the comments on my digressive question.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 23 13:21:40 EDT 2000
  
  sk
  
  Whenever the left brain starts giving
  commentaries, the flow is always lost! Every writer, artist, composer loses the purity of
  listening.
  
  However as you train the left brain, it
  starts giving wonderful commentaries. It points
  out to the things you might have missed. It
  connects up to other songs that sounded similar
  and as the commentator improves, the enjoyment
  becomes manifold.
  
  It is like watching a cricket match with
  commentary. A good commentator can enhance
  the experience, as we all know. If the commentator
  talks in a foreign language (including numbers!)
  you will see his commentary as a nuisance because
  it distracts you from the real thing.
  
  It is only when we have a moody, bully
  commentator that keeps on pointing out only the negative
  then the flow is lost.
  
  Initially I used to distinctly switch between
  a layman mode and an analyst mode. When
  I used to listen with emotion I used to shun
  analysis and when I am in a mood for analysis,
  I used to be almost mathematical. But sooner
  I started seeing the value of analytic listening,
  I believe the analyst is becoming emotional too!
  One day I hope I wont have a conflict.
  
  Writer Sujatha once said, one of the biggest
  losses for a writer is the plain and direct
  emotion a reader gets. But he also said later
  he reads first time without any analysis to get
  the emotional impact and then goes over and sees
  what devices the writer has used to created the
  specific emotions. I have found that during
  the second round you get emotional jolts which
  you miss during the first round!
  
  
  
  And this para is for the philosophical corner of your brain: eastern religions feel even talking
  or doing or plain thought is cutting the reality
  and the whole goal of their meditation is to
  shut the thought stream so that uninterrupted
  flow can be achieved. (And ravers think drugs
  are a direct way to this!)
  
  But I still believe that accepting and training
  the analytic mind will improve the experience.
  It is an awkward path but has its fruits.
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 23 13:31:24 EDT 2000
  
  Once Vikatan interviewer asked Raja what is
  your favorite song. He said, "The way I listen
  is different - analytic listening (He actually
  used this phrase). Oru song-a ketta adhula
  enna instruments use panni irukkanga, eppadi
  vasikkaranga - ithaithan gavanippom."
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 23 13:35:45 EDT 2000
  
  sk, thanks for asking the question that haunts
  some of us.
  Vijay, SL, nice explanations.
  
  I at least know a few songs which I used to enjoy
  which lost their charm after I looked at them
  analytically. Example. KVM's onre kulam
  enru paaduvom. This was one of my favorites,
  until recently I found that he had used
  a vocal harmony which was someone singing the
  pallavi along in one note in a bass voice throughout! I hated it. But I am the loser.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Oct 23 13:36:59 EDT 2000
  
  Actually, 'enjoying music' itself is an intellectual exercise. I am told that the brain interprets certains sequences as 'musical'. This is interpreted as joy. So we are already 'analyzing' even though we are not doing it consciously. This joy in interpreting/seeing 'patterns' is what drives human mind. Most of western science is based on it. (Taxonomy, behavior/formulae, etc).
  rjay is right ..analytical mind can only improve this experience. It would be easier to understand this if we take an example from another field. One example, I can think of is - a child is fascinated by bright colors/bold patterns. As we grow up tend to wear clothes which are subtle like design woven-into material, intricate zari/art work etc. I would say this is an ability of the mind to have pleasure in these things, which was not possible at an younger age.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Mon Oct 23 13:46:03 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru
  
  The comment "We are already analysing, just not
  consciously" is a gem. Great!
  
  I think Subbudu might still enjoy good music.
  for himself. It is just that, he, as a professional listener, has many times spoiled
  the fun for the masses! But he thinks his purpose
  is to pick the best from the rest and showcase.
  And also point out mistakes which performers can
  learn to correct! I believe that the second portion has to be done one-on-one and not
  public.
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Oct 23 18:31:11 EDT 2000
  
  When it comes to listening anlaytically, I like to just insert this info as a digressive but interesting piece of info on SPB. We know what genius he is, and cannot doubt it. But he takes pleasure in appreciating some not so great songs on stage. Now what is that ? I think he just feels the song rather than comment harshly on how that song compares with others which are set, say in the same raga. Thus,IMO, there is a pure listener in everybody, even in great minds like SPB.
  
  I myself have seen thousand odd varieties of kalyaani raagam in film songs and will not consider (just for eg.) "nirpathuve" from Bharathi to be a great number. But, I have listened to it for countless number of times.
  
  So what do we look for in a song ? sheer pleasure. Nothing else. But, when it comes to discussion we present a different picture.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Oct 23 18:31:53 EDT 2000
  
  typo:
  
  this info = this
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.144.64.4) on: Mon Oct 23 23:25:36 EDT 2000
  
  Rjay, Kiru, MS & others: pls analyse some IR gems, either analytically or emotionally:-)
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Tue Oct 24 04:34:27 EDT 2000
  
  i remember having a heated debate with one my friends about whether music is appreciated by the mind or by the heart. i believe that music, unlike literature or cinema, belongs to the heart. i think we need a separate thread to share ideas on this very interesting topic.
  
  
• From: sk (@ 192.52.106.30) on: Tue Oct 24 04:46:17 EDT 2000
  
  rjay, kiru, MS:
  
  Thanks for the answers to my question. Looks like
  there is a possibility for the two types of
  listening to coexist positively.
  
  eden:
  
  Sorry for the digression in this thread.
  
  cram:
  
  Can you start a separate thread for 'Intellectual
  Versus Emotional Listening'? I am sure there will
  be many points of view expressed by others.
  
  
• From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1) on: Tue Oct 24 08:48:28 EDT 2000
  
  MS : How many kalyANi have you heard with bhAradhi's lyrics ?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Oct 24 10:21:30 EDT 2000
  
  eden :-)
  rjay ..thanks !!
  rjay is the right guy to do any analysis I am just more than a enthusiastic music lover.
  cram...the heart cannot feel..only changes the blood pressure :-) Seriously you many want to read about the science of joy ..actually pleasure!!
  But lets get the drum rolling on the analysis.
  rjay..it would be a good idea to analyse a song and then say to what group it belongs. Maybe I'll repost my proposed classification.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 24 11:43:44 EDT 2000
  
  MS,
  
  That was a very good observation about SPB
  appreciating even not so great songs. For enjoyment that should be the state of mind. And
  may be that is why he is able to improvise any
  tune given to him and make it better, If he
  said, "this tune stinks" then he cannot even
  work with it further.
  
  Looks like, for a performer, that attitude is good. And for
  a listener, that is good,because you can derive
  pleasure from any music. For a composer, the
  threshold is high. Creativity involves
  generating hundreds of ideas and retaining the
  top 2 or 3% cream. I have heard that it is very
  difficult to make Madan (Vikatan cartoonist) laugh.
  
  

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