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Whose song is that?

Topic started by RV (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on Fri Apr 21 23:48:53 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Who is the person identified with a song? In other words, if you hv to pick up one owner of a given song, who would you pick?

The most natural answer is that the music director, as the "creator" of the song. But this doesnt seem to be quite true. When I think of a song like say, "Adho Andhap Paravai Pola Aada Vendum", my mind automatically says MGR song. Maybe MGR deserves the honor as he supposedly played a crucial role in choosing tunes and polishing the song. But then why do we identify Sodhanai Mel Sodhanai with Sivaji?

Sometimes, one contributor to the song is so outstanding that we automatically identify the song with that person. When I hear Mannil Indhak Kadhal, SPB is the first name that pops into my mind. Atthikkai Kai Kai becomes a Kannadasan song. Chinna Chinna Aasai becomes an AR Rahman song and so on.

Cassettes of MGR duets, Sivaji thatthuvap padalgal, Rajini songs, Chandrababu songs, PBS songs, IR songs, Rahman songs, Maniratnam songs etc are more common than KV Mahadevan songs, Vali songs, AP Nagarajan songs. What makes us recognize a song like "Oru Naal Podhuma" as a Balamuralikrishna song rather than a KV Mahadevan song or even a Kannadasan song?

Please come up with theories, answers.

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Responses:

• From: RV (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on: Fri Apr 21 23:51:36 EDT 2000
  
  I used to be a regular in the bygone days. I dont see many of the old timers today with the exception of Sathya Keerthi. Hope that this topic interests people like him, Bones Satya, Manisekaran, Udhaya, Kanchana, Nov, Bhaskar, Gopal and so on. If I have missed a name, it is because of forgetfulness caused by my absence and my not being familiar with the major contributors in the last year or so.
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.140) on: Sat Apr 22 05:56:12 EDT 2000
  
  The moment I read the topic, one song immediately popped out of my mind - putham puthukkAlai...this is a RAJA song! (The only other person who can claim a little bit of credit is SJ...)
  
  It didn't even have picturisation and still such a big hit! Even a recent marriage cassette of a relative started with this song in the background! Oh, what a song with RAJA MUTHIRAI!
  
  
• From: RV (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on: Sat Apr 22 17:27:33 EDT 2000
  
  Certain possibilities:
  
  1. A song may have a contributor who rarely participates in TFM. e.g. "Oru Naal Podhuma" is a Balamurali song, "Gnayiru Oli Mazhaiyil" is a Kamalahasan song, "Adikkudhu Kuliru" is a Rajinikant song, "Vetthalai Potta Shokkile" is a Karthik song and so on.
  
  2. Very old songs may have only one contributor who is known today. Vadhaname Chandra Bimbame will always be an MKT song for people today.
  
  
• From: RV (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on: Sun Apr 23 15:54:32 EDT 2000
  
  3. The outstanding achivement by one contributor theory as described in the heading.
  
  4. Mutthirai by one contributor as explained by Eden. SPB's nakkal sirippu, the ganeer kural of Seerkazhi, the kuzhaivu of AMR and PBS, the unique (so far) voices of Trichy Loganathan and Chandrababu are examples.
  
  5. The other part of the mutthirai is the visual part as seen by Sivaji's facial contortion in Enge Nimmadhi, Prabhu deva's dances etc.
  
  
• From: RV (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on: Sun Apr 23 21:44:58 EDT 2000
  
  6. This is an offshoot of the auteur theory. Auteur theory is proposed in the context of movies; it says that each movie should be viewed as a part of whole, the whole being that of the director's repertoire. Auteur means author in French.
  
  I think that we instinctivly use this theory in TFM. Lets say we start with Senthoorap Poove and identify that as an IR song. Then we hear Poovarasam Poo Pootthacchu and identify that as another IR song. Then the song Anthi Mazhai Pozhigirathu comes along to which SPB, Vairamuthu, IR, TV Gopalakrishnan and possibly Kamal have claims. But it is easy to fit this is the reportoire of IR than anybody else!
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.226.195.122) on: Mon Apr 24 01:48:03 EDT 2000
  
  a small tit bit I like to share...
  when msv/tkr and kannadasan composed/Writing enge nimadhee..
  they actually asked sivaji to act few shots
  to get some idea of the scene, based on that the song was composed, written and recorded.
  
  This was told my msv in DD's old malaraum Ninaivugal, basically it was a team work, everone did their job so perfectly.
  
  
• From: sk (@ harvest.ucar.edu) on: Mon Apr 24 22:48:51 EDT 2000
  
  RV:
  
  Good to see you back.
  
  neengaLE ellA theories-um ezhudhitteenga! Before
  70's I feel actors (and actresses too) were very
  well-known, much more than directors and singers.
  The music directors were pretty much silent hard
  working people operating in the background, not so
  much known to the masses! (Only when I went to college
  did I even start appreciating the efforts of
  GR, MSV, TKR, KVM and the likes!) I remember AIR
  did not even mention MD names when they aired songs..
  may be things have changed now. (Vividh Bharathi
  used to mention MD names, but we didn't have VB
  in south TN those days!) Because of all that, we
  used to associate songs mainly with actors/actresses
  first, then singers, then to some extent with
  movie directors.. like kAdhalilE thOlviyutrAL
  was a Sridhar song. After IR came I think MDs got
  a much better recognition which they deserved
  very much.
  
  I forgot to add lyricists.. yes they were also
  known quite well by the masses.. and many songs
  were associated mainly with Kannadhasan and Vaali
  and PKS.
  
  Fan is perhaps right. Is there any song that you
  would call as an 'MSV song', although he has his
  'muththirai' stamped in many many beautiful melodies?
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.151) on: Tue Apr 25 05:02:20 EDT 2000
  
  RV!
  SJ got natl award for senthoorappoovE & IR didn't get award for 16 vayadhinilE, so whose song is that?:-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.134) on: Tue Apr 25 08:36:39 EDT 2000
  
  sk!
  I can give one e.g. of MSV (cannot be disputed):
  
  `sollaththAn ninaikkirEn, mellaththAn thudikkirEn':-))
  
  
• From: sk (@ beacon-ext.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Apr 25 18:54:07 EDT 2000
  
  eden:
  
  I wouldn't call that song as a 'msv song'
  in the strong sense of a 'single dominant performance
  by one artiste' that RV mentioned. 'sambO sivasambO'
  can probably go as a 'msv song' (msv as a singer).
  
  
• From: Radhai (@ h326c.s86b1.baynetworks.com) on: Tue Apr 25 20:04:40 EDT 2000
  
  Almost all songs from 'Ninaithaale Inikkum' can be branded as MSV songs.
  
  The songs 'Sippi irukkudhu muthum irukkudhu' is definitely a good balance of lyrics and music although one might say Kannadasan stands out at the end.
  
  Songs that I owe to the singers.
  
  Inji iduppazhagaa - SJ
  Dhom dhom (Sindhu Bhairavi) - KJY
  Nenjinile nenjunile (Uyire) - SJ
  (Why I say this is the same tune rendered by Lata in Hindi didnt create the effective that SJ was able to give)
  Satham illadha thanimai (yet another example of the balance between lyrics and the voice) SPB however adding to the powerful lyrics of Vairamuthu
  
  
• From: RV (@ c660409-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com) on: Wed Apr 26 01:55:41 EDT 2000
  
  SK: Thanks for the welcome! It feels great to participate in a TFM discussion.
  
  I dont think that I have covered all theories. For every theory that I have come up, exceptions can be thought of. e.g.
  
  1. Occasional contributor theory: Madurai Somu, Seshagopalan, Sulamangalam Rajalakshmi are occasional contributors. MLV and DK Pattammal went beyond occasional contributions. Have you ever seen a cassette with their songs?
  
  2. Old songs theory: Never seen a cassette of TFM songs of MS Subbalakshmi. In fact, even PU Chinnappa songs are quite rare, not to speak of Dhandapani Desikar, GNB etc.
  
  3. Amudhum Thenum Edharkku is an outstanding lyric from Suradha. Its not identified with him! V Kumar, Vali, KV Mahadevan, Sudarsanam, SM Subbaiah Naidu are giants. I have never seen a collection of V Kumar songs or Vali songs, KVM songs or Sudarsanam songs!
  
  4. Signature from a contributor: It is tough to think of a counter-example for this one as it is very tough to define signature in the first place. Let me assume that a distinctive voice is the signature. Though many voices are quite distinctive, voices like MSV, IR, Shahul Hameed, Suresh Peters etc. do not seem to be recognized as authors.
  
  5. visual signature: Why do only Sivaji and MGR, Kamal and Rajini get recognized? What about Gemini, Sivakumar, Muthuraman, Jaishankar, Karthik, Prashanth and so on? I am not really uptodate with the current tamil movie scene, but I would think Ajit and Vijay's visual signatures are recognized. More knowledgeble persons, please let me know whether this is right or wrong.
  
  6. The inertia theory - Once a author is recognized, all songs involving him tend to get assigned to him. Logically, then no other author can ever arise. This is so obviously incorrect.
  
  I guess the question is why do we say MGR song rather than Gemini song? Among contemporary heroes, only some are recognized as authors; ditto for singers, MDs, lyricists, directors. I mean, will a Maruthakasi cassette be ever published? Why not? What makes us recognize some authors, why do we identify some songs with some authors and give less importance to others? MSV and KVM are contemporaries and the chance of best of MSV has a 10 times better chance of coming out than the best of KVM. Why?
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.157) on: Wed Apr 26 05:16:52 EDT 2000
  
  Visual signature theory: There's an additional clause to this...In the case of MGR, it was not just the visual presence that made it a MGR song for even if the same had not been shot in the movie but was retained in the disk, still it will be recognized as a MGR song...so, what's the reason? It's simply because of the popularity of the person with masses plus the strong political tone in many of those songs...e.g. `anbukku nAn adimai', `nALai namathE' etc. It really never mattered whether KVM or MSV or SG tuned and recorded the song..neither it mattered whether TMS or SPB or KJY or any other person sang that one...
  
  Such was the mass appeal of MGR as a person (not just as a screen actor) which ended in the song being identified with him..To some extent, this applies to Sivaji, Rajini and Kamal too for their off-screen interaction with the masses...In the case of RK & KH, probably some amount of `media promotion' helped too...
  
  Can the same be told of, say, Karthik?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.132) on: Wed Apr 26 13:22:15 EDT 2000
  
  Any song by Jency is a Jency song, because she brings a unique non-Thamizh feel to a song.
  
  Vaali songs have many common expressions--vaadakai, vatti have been used a lot by him, the man is obsessed with revenue. Also, "Paal pola kall, rendum orae niram" has shown up in many songs. "Kaanal neeraal thaagam theeraathu" showed up in many songs.
  
  VM--enough has been said about his favorites, raaja as a prefix for any silly thing used to be rampant in his early years. In his glossary,echchil, viyarvai,thaagam, anusari, aththumeeral, moatcham and joathi figure prominently.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.129) on: Thu Apr 27 01:24:00 EDT 2000
  
  RV!
  To the `outstanding' or `dominant' contributor theory, I want to add a clause `unique contribution' aspect which will make that song belong to the one providing that!
  
  e.g. iLaya nilA - every aspect of this song is good, each one has contributed their best -SPB, VM, IR, Film director, people in the visuals....but, any average TFM listenser will identify this song as an IR song for just one reason than any other: the tail guitar piece of that song, which is so UNIQUE! I myself have never waited for a song to near its END to enjoy:-) One song that is revered for it's tail piece!
  
  

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