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Titles Given To MDs

Topic started by WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on Wed Mar 13 08:36:13 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd like to discuss about (and get more info on) the titles that are conferred to various MDs.
eg. Maestro, Isai Gnani, Isai Puyal, etc etc.
What titles do all the significant MDs of tfm have? Who gives them these titles? What do they mean in the career of these MDs? How far do the MDs go in acknowledging (and using) these titles and accepting them, and how much of these are used for merely marketing?
And finally the issue I'm rather interested in. How far are these titles used by the fans of these MDs and what this usage signifies.
Of course this topic can also be extended for singers as well as other artistes. However, my first priority is to discuss about the MDs' titles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Sat Mar 30 10:52:15 EST 2002
  
  magix, cool it. now that your exams are over.. I don't think anybody here has the priceless thing called vacation. you do. now, retaliate!!
  
  
• From: ROTFL (@ 203.106.140.55) on: Sat Mar 30 10:58:40 EST 2002
  
  retaliate panna, paarthukittu summaa iruppomaa? :)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Sat Mar 30 11:16:07 EST 2002
  
  Interesting discussion guys. I initially thought no one wanted to analyse this in depth. Will add my comments/summary later.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Mar 30 12:02:27 EST 2002
  
  s0, thank you for your post...Yes, your question "why do we do it?" - is at the heart of this ritual of title conferring.
  
  I did not imply that IR is inconsistent or undeserving of the "pattams" that come his way. My point was outside the IR mode (although, given the list of titles he has been garlanded with, it does seem a tad excessive? Not of his own making, sure, but all the same, the whole exercise of titles and their meaning spirals into redundancy, yes?)...it was about identity/persona and how the usage of a title leads to recognition over time (cf. my note on the titles for MGR, Sivaji etc).
  
  Now to answer your "why do we do it?" The key to this resides in the word "idol(atory)" (as used above in the IR fan mail.) How and where does the transfer from admiration to WORSHIP begin? It is the work of the individual that has the potential for "immortality" - but the individual is certainly "mortal", illaiya?
  
  As an aside: "Bharat Ratna" Lata Mangeshkar (it is her title of course - and well-deserved, I may add) - imagine that being repeated time and again...how long before it begins to sound like self-agrandisement, if not ludicrous? That is the point I am making.
  
  Yes, fans and following can be blinded by their respect, eagerness and aradhanai impulse. It is upto the individual who is being so "idolised" to draw the line...and stick to it.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Mar 30 12:12:04 EST 2002
  
  typo: "idolatry" - my apologies :-)
  
  
• From: :-(( (@ 166.44.185.183) on: Sat Mar 30 12:54:40 EST 2002
  
  Forget talking about his titles, he seems to care less about his name...which is why it is (mis)spelt in almost all possible ways. It also speaks of his "importance for image" (which is why I mentioned about his candidness and unsophisticated behavior). And u question and say things as thou he is craving for and trading titles. Blame the public ? people like u and me, why project him in an undignified manner?
  
  And if u still want to talk about choosing a title and sticking to it, then it clearly shows that u have not (or don?t want to) understood the answer given in the link (and my explanation of the same 2 times, already!).
  
  btw, in classical field titles are limited as, usually, there are certain bodies that give them and most of them are official (like Pandit, Ustad, Sir, Lord etc). However, in our films, it is mostly certain individuals or group of them who decide as to whom to give and what title to give (doesn?t really matter as to why to give). So, there are no rules or regulations and it is primarily those people who decide, over which there is little or no control.
  
  As s0 says, from the time Isaignani has been given that has been largely in use and from the time he composed the symphony "Maestro" is mostly in use. RPO and other such outsiders will probably refer to him as Maestro (maybe, till he is called Sir or Lord:-) and not Raaga dhEvan) and most likely Isaignani will be used by us (as it is sort of govt given since Karunanidhi gave it). Other new ones may come into use in future (or old ones taken back?:-)).
  
  AVR,
  NOM. As u can see, he fails to understand IR and projects him in most undignified manner using strong words. U know how much he praises and never talks anything low about her and is always there to defend her. And u can imagine how he wld have reacted if someone had used strongest of words and projected her in a real cheap manner. Hence, I sort of included her with the hope that our man here would try to think hard and understand. So, ignore it and don't give it much thought (thou there cld be some truth in it).
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.41.115) on: Sat Mar 30 13:48:23 EST 2002
  
  :-(( and isaiosai,
  
  I feel compelled to make this post because Vani Jayaram's name has been unnecessarily dragged into this thread.
  
  Many talented people take pride in their talent and they do not go out seeking chances to show off their talents. They expect people to come to them and make them offers. It is called taking pride, not arrogance. These kind of people when they feel that they are not respected, usually withdraw from the scene because they put their self-respect before their carrer. That is what VJ did both in HFM and TFM. Nothing wrong with that.
  
  While it may be the smartest thing to do, to go out and ask people for chances, some people put their pride and ego before it. Nothing wrong with that either.
  
  Self-esteem, pride and self-respect can be very easily misunderstood for arrogance.
  
  Vani Jayaram had proudly said in an interview that she recorded a song for Nandha. But the song was unfairly taken off the album. Either VJ sang that song very badly or she was very arrogant at the recording. I have a hard time believing either. I am quite convinced that this is "oru sOru padham" for how she is treated.
  
  By the way, referring to someone as "he", "she", "him" or "her" without atleast mentioning their name once is considered very rude where I live. It is like addressing someone in singular in Tamil.
  
  
• From: arun_uk (@ 213.121.212.121) on: Sat Mar 30 15:54:28 EST 2002
  
  "It will outlive you, me and Time"
  -Great comments again Naaz!
  
  
  "It is upto the individual who is being so "idolised" to draw the line...and stick to it"
  -This particular comment from you sounds to be a tricky proposition. I wonder if you could elucidate your thoughts on this?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: :-)) (@ 166.44.185.217) on: Sat Mar 30 16:30:24 EST 2002
  
  Neel D,
  I repeat, NOM to u guys. Pl. understand my explanation to AVR. u say u r compelled to post with the very mention of ur idol. But look at the unwarranted strong words that have been used in projecting IR in a wrong and undignified manner. Maybe u can give a convincing explanation to ur pal about self-esteem, pride and self-respect (add to that candidness and unpolished behavior) that can be easily be misunderstood for arrogance or whatever.
  
  Withdrawing from the scene is probably an easier alternative (pl. don't mistake this to demean VJ, ok). But staying there and still trying to do ones duty is a better (and a more appropriate) alternative (which is why I mentioned about Arjuna fighting the battle without fleeing, that was an easier alternative). Either way, maybe, nothing is wrong. All that matters to me is IR is still doing his work (in spite of his fans and even critic Subbudu asking him to keep away from films). IR also does not go to people for filmi chances. Even now, it is they who go to him. I think I can differentiate between taking pride and arrogance but, maybe, somebody else here does not.
  
  Regd. referring to someone as he/she/him/her: ayyo Neel D, it is just that i feel very uncomfortable taking such big names while/and talking low about them. Dfers here will anyway not spare IR. Every tdh will ridicule IR and satisfy his ego and that is the price IR pays for being in this field (and not in classical field, which is why I had even mentioned about the different "perceptions" leading to different treatments of personalities in these fields. Ravi Shankar will not get ripped apart, and in fact, get praised to skies, in spite of his addiction to madhu and mAdhu (wine and women) but IR, who does not have these 2 most important vices, and is in fact more spiritual, will get ridiculed for his minutest of shortcomings). I feel ashamed to take their names in such contexts. Which is why I preferred not to mention VJ explicitly. Thus being the feeling, it leaves me with, in English, he/she/him/her to refer to such respected personalities:-)
  
  And what do u have to say about all the strong and demeaning words that have been wrongly used against IR? Pl. share ur peace of mind with the concerned person (only if it is not going to strain ur relationship). Moreover, pl. see that I tried to explain but he wouldn't understand. Which is why I had to drag VJ in (with the hope that he would think and understand). And u know this is not the first time such a thing is happening. Moreover, if he idolizes he is just being a fan but me gets called as a "cult" follower. No double standards here!
  
  Anyway, I tried to reason out with u bcos I don't like being misunderstood. However, this explaining is getting real sick and silly. So, I don?t think u?ll see much of me in this thread:-)
  
  
• From: (@ 166.44.185.217) on: Sat Mar 30 16:35:22 EST 2002
  
  /--Blame the public ? people like u and me, why project him in an undignified manner?--\
  should read
  Blame the public - people like u and me, why project him in an undignified manner?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Mar 30 17:09:28 EST 2002
  
  Thanks, Arun.
  Being "idolised" is not in the control of the artiste/person. But any artiste - no matter how great - has to practice an essential "disconnect" from such audulation and deification. Not doing so can lead to many things, complacency and contempt for starters. And yet, at the same time, a title or a moniker, facilitates admiration, recall and respect all in just one coinage. It is also gift a of appreciation. And in an artiste's (with reference to TFM) life there are many such "gifts" with the passage of time - honorary degrees, 500th film felicitations, state/national titles, fan-club fetes, citations, scholarly rank/recognition...
  
  But the possibility of getting carried away with these is also immense, and seductive. After all, adjectives are free - and especially if they garland one's own worth in higher and exaggerated terms - their fragance can be heady (or synthetic, depending on one's take.) So there is the imminent danger of meaninglessness, confusion and superfluity. The Identity/Persona is not only not helped by the plethora, it is further muddled.
  For example (with no bias or preference for any of these and definitely with no intention to mock, consider these.) Isai Vendhan, Isai Puyal, Isai Medhai, Isai Thendral, Isai Devan, Isai Kartha, Isai Chakravarthi, Raaga Jeevi,Raaga Devi, Raaga Rajan/Arasan, Raaga Sigaram, Raaga Pitha...now imagine an assortment of the above - say 4-5 conferred on one extraordinary individual. Do these titles add to the genius or do they add to the confusion? And when these "titles" only get better and more inventive in their ardour and appreciation, who is to set the limit? Who has the power to say, enough, this is quickly becoming absurd? The artiste/person.
  
  That was my point: Consistency leads to Titular Identity, with in turn leads to instant recall, respect and establishment.
  To repeat my other example, with a few more additions - I will leave out the name of the artiste/person/genius - but I have no doubt you will be easily fill that in (I am referring here to Phrase-based "titles" - as are prevalent in TN.)
  
  Puratchi Thalivan(r)
  Nadigar Thilagam
  Punnagai Arasi
  Nadigayar Thilagam
  Mellisai Mannar
  Natiya Paeroli
  Makkal Thilagam
  
  
  I hope I have been of help with this elucidation of the links between Title/Consistency/Identity. And in making clear how all of it - and how or what it "means" (except the idolisation) rests in the hands of the artiste.
  
  Please overlook my typos.
  
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Sat Mar 30 18:04:48 EST 2002
  
  Now to answer your "why do we do it?" The key to this resides in the word "idol(atory)
  
  idol worship is not restricted to TN alone. why do we give titles to our idols when others (northie/foreign) don't? Haven't the others thought of such a novel idea to worship their artists:-)? Or did the artists refuse the titles when given to them? frankly, I don't get it.
  
  naaz, thanks for your post. I hope the others understand what you mean. and I agree with what you are saying. we are definitely overdoing this title-conferring practice. at the very least, everybody who is anybody in tamil films has a title. it at all anyone can say no, it is the conferee.
  
  

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