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Great songs of IR that don't appeal at first

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ nova5.cs.wisc.edu) on Wed Oct 21 17:52:25 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There are many songs of IR that I never was impressed with, at first hearing. However, later on the tune began haunting me and I was captivated. Some examples are "Nilave vaa" from Mouna Raagam, "Varna Vrindavanam" from Kaliyoonjaalu - I was pretty impatient with these at first, but now they rank among my all time favorites.

On the other hand, you have songs that impress you at first hearing itself like "Thaalaatuthe vaanam", etc. I wonder what it is in the song that makes its appeal slow?

Also, as a composer, how would IR know whether his tune would have a fast or a slow appeal?

I am interested in knowing others' views on this.

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Responses:

• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.156) on: Wed Oct 21 19:55:34 EDT 1998
  
  I do not know if I will be taken for a ride if I release this statement. "Ennai thalatta varuvalo" too did not appeal to me initially. Similarly the songs of "Guru" exempting "Guru charanam" did not appeal (I must say were not understandable) in the first try. But the latter ranks as the best among the IR albums (surpassing HTNI and NBW) in my opinion.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: The Fan (@ spider-tk071.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Oct 21 21:27:32 EDT 1998
  
  MVU I did not like the first time. The second time, this is the best of his albums in a long time. All songs are brilliant with new melody lines.
  
  Dalapathy I hated and felt that IR was tired or reiterative.
  
  Thalatuthey Vaanam alos I like less now, because the beginning of the second interlude makes the song out of order
  
  
• From: N.C. Ramakrishna (@ 173-140-135.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Oct 21 22:46:07 EDT 1998
  
  Songs from Avatharam comes into my mind.
  
  Iniatially before watching the movie, I could not feel the songs much. But after watching the movie and listening more I could feel the greatness of IR.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Oct 22 00:38:32 EDT 1998
  
  NCR,
  Even I thought why IR was singing all the good songs himself.I felt KJY would have been better for thenral vandhu.
  I did n't realise that his voice fits so well for nasser till I saw the movie.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.24.118) on: Thu Oct 22 01:02:14 EDT 1998
  
  kaushik,
  
  the discussion is purely subjective. so i do not get the point.
  
  first of all to decide whether a song is great or not itself is purely subjective. then to analyse further and see if it appealed the first time or not makes it even more subjective.
  
  so the topic becomes very very subjective.
  
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ nova1.cs.wisc.edu) on: Thu Oct 22 12:39:09 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay: Let me clear one thing - music is inherently subjective. As you said, a song's greatness etc are subjective issues. But then its not so digital either. There is a lot of similarity across people in musical tastes, which is why songs become hits in the first place. If one went on saying music is subjective, well, the whole DF is redundant (except for stuff like Song stats, etc). While what you say applies to emotional arguments which are often witnessed here, it should not stop one from general discussions.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Thu Oct 22 14:44:49 EDT 1998
  
  kaushik,
  then we can change the topic as ' musical hits that did not appeal the first time around'.
  
  we can analyse popular songs that stayed a long time in top 10 and see which of them had an instant appeal.
  
  
• From: Songs_of_IR (@ pup34.stanford.edu) on: Thu Oct 22 15:49:45 EDT 1998
  
  Songs that didn't appeal the first time to me :-
  
  1. All songs from Guru . Now, I consider it a master-piece.
  
  2. "Idhu oru nilA kAlam" - Tik ^3
  3. "OhO megham andado" - Mauna ragam.
  
  Actually , I should include 99 % of IR's great songs in the list.
  
  Sursprising that people talk of ARR's songs as not appealing the first time and having a "growing effect" as a new thing. This quality was inherent in most of IR's songs
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Thu Oct 22 17:40:26 EDT 1998
  
  in my case it is just the opposite. most of IR's hits or popular songs have always had an instant appeal in me. when i was a kid i used to hum uravugal thodarkathai even after the first hearing. so much so tha even though i had'nt heard the song for quite a while after that ( 15 years) i still remembered the tune and asked for the film name in this forum about a year back!!!
  
  it is only of late that i need to hear his songs more than once to get a 'feel' of the song.
  
  except for 'aruna girana' none of the songs in guru appealed to me instantly.but i have listened to it atleast about 100 times by now and consider all of them as great compositions.
  
  as for TFM most of his songs lack an instant appeal in contrast to his songs of the early 80's.
  
  
• From: Mano (@ ecarh29c.nortel.ca) on: Thu Oct 22 18:04:01 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay,
  Well said. That's what I believe too. When I listend at first time, I'll know that whether I'd like it or not. Ilavenil Kaala... from MVU has an instant appeal to me.
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.233) on: Thu Oct 22 20:56:40 EDT 1998
  
  Well said Vijay. I do not know if Mr.Songs_of_IR 's opinion is widespread. Personally I feel that IR's songs have instant appeal and longstanding charm. This I say not as my own opinion, but as an inference of the observation I had made with my friends.
  
  But GURU was something different altogether and it probably needed more brains to understand (hope I became intelligent later). The song"Ilavenil Kaala Panjami" is on lines similar to "Ennai Thalatta Varuvalo". Infact I was reminded of the ARR song "Vennilaavin Therileri" from Duet. probably they are in similar raga.
  
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ 209.149.247.66) on: Fri Oct 23 13:04:42 EDT 1998
  
  I didnt like the songs of veerathAlattu first time. Later the songs grew on me like anything. Especially "padikattuma" by SJ. What a song! :-)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Oct 23 18:30:18 EDT 1998
  
  When "Kizhakkae Pogum Rayil" (yes, I know way baaaack!)I couldn't get used to the totally different sounding songs at first. Later, I played them to the detriment of our first stereo system.
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wg041.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Oct 23 21:30:24 EDT 1998
  
  IMO, very few songs appeal to you at first listening. It takes at least 5 to 10 good listening for you to really like any song. Songs of you favourite MD, apparently looks good at first listening. Songs of any MDs other than your favourite(RIVALs), have either a slow impact or NO impact on you. This is another bitter truth, IMHO. That is life!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Fri Oct 23 23:27:13 EDT 1998
  
  observer,
  first of all, for a MD to become u'r favourite his songs should have appealed to u instantly numerous number of times, is it not? atleast that's how i became an IR fan. many of his early 80's songs have appealed to me instantly. i need not listen to the songs 5 or 6 times and console or psyche myself into appreciating the songs. but the present day songs require a longer duration of listening.
  
  so its not that one's favourite MD's songs alone appeal instantly. all songs of roja appealed to me instantly. but after that very few songs of ARR have had instant appeal in me. same holds true for raja in the last couple of years.
  
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wb023.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Oct 24 09:39:48 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay,
  every one has expectation from his/her MD, being an ardent fan. They accept any ordinary piece as one of his best, and rejoice themselves. I have UTMOST respect for them for being genuine fans. I could not be one of them , for being very objective. If you ask frank opinion of any other MDs they are very indifferent responding. It is a human nature, believe me. As I mentioned, there are a few songs which qualify for appealing at first time listening. Roja was one such category in your case. 'Aroona Kirana' of GURU in my case. If you become truly objective listener, then you can very well as to what does it take to truly appreciate a song. Sometimes I have even noticed that song that appealed to me instantly , no longer stayed in my mind. All these views are just my thoughts.
  
  
• From: thomas (@ nb23ppp33.cac.psu.edu) on: Sun Oct 25 11:26:55 EST 1998
  
  Has anyone heard 'Varna Vrindavanam' from Kaliyoonjal? The credit is given to Chithra but the voice sounds very dissimilar. I don't think Chithra sang that song......any thoughts......
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.156) on: Sun Oct 25 12:17:21 EST 1998
  
  Dear thomas,
  It is chitra.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ 209.149.247.66) on: Mon Oct 26 10:56:22 EST 1998
  
  IMO, the same varNa vrindhAvanam sung by IR is better than chithrA's version.
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ ntws113.cs.wisc.edu) on: Mon Oct 26 11:06:00 EST 1998
  
  Gokul: I agree. IR added a lazy touch which was absent in Chitra's version. IMO, its one of IR's best efforts as a singer.
  
  
• From: Songs_of_IR (@ pup36.stanford.edu) on: Mon Oct 26 14:58:41 EST 1998
  
  IMO, there is a difference between "appeal" and "appreciation". Even though, a lot of songs do have initial appeal, one needs to listen more than once in order to be able to appreciate all aspects to the song incl "singing", "interludes", "prelude" , "accompaniments" (chords etc) and last but not least lyrics.
  While the first listening may be enough to get a good feel for the song, IMO it takes more than one listening to understand the orchestral nuances. That may be one reason why heavily orchestrated songs such as from IR's GURU take a longer time to register.
  Even simple songs can have difficult tunes needing more than one hearing. I can list countless examples, but one that strikes me readily is "Shanbhaghame shanbhaghame". The middle portion of the tune is so wonderfully complex that I had to listen more than once even to grasp the basic tune.
  While I do accept that a lot of IR's songs have instant appeal, I feel that most of them have to be listened to more than once to be able to appreciate all the nuances. Anyway, this is a subjective opinion. Ideas are bound to vary from person to person esp in artistic interpretations of musical works.
  
  
• From: Purv (@ ) on: Sun Aug 11 20:04:02 EDT 2002
  
  1. Maappillaikku Maaman Unakku-- Netrikann
  2. Raja Rani Jocky-- """
  3. Ilamai Idho Idho-- Sakalakala Vallavan
  4. Almost all songs from Devar Magan
  
  
• From: purv (@ 205.231.149.33) on: Sun Aug 11 20:09:17 EDT 2002
  
  A few more:
  5. Eeramaana Rojaave-- Ilamai Kalangal
  6. Ninnaikindra Paathiyil-- Athma
  7. Nil Nil Nil-- Paattu Paadavaa
  8. almost all songs from Senthooram (except the MV number, 'Naan Ippathaan...' which still does not appeal to me)
  
  

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