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Did MSV have ANY musical defects?

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ nova1.cs.wisc.edu) on Wed Sep 30 15:21:55 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Let me make one thing clear: I am not against MSV, but am merely curious about this topic.

I have made an interesting observation. We have so many criticisms of IR and ARR, but I've not seen any criticism of MSV. I haven't listened to many MSV songs, but I wasn't very impressed by whatever I have heard on TV. Whatever it is, I cannot imagine that he did not have any musical defects. Could anyone point them out? I am very interested. It might test the "objectivity" of certain "objective" people regarding the IR-ARR "war"(I'm not hinting at anyone, please do not misunderstand this), but nevertheless, I want to pursue this.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: God (@ 161.142.100.86) on: Wed Sep 18 20:36:07 EDT 2002
  
  x, don't be a pretender!
  See the few postings just above yours. They also made comments, but they were not selective like you.
  If you want to look like a do-gooder, give an all round advise.
  By your selective criticism, it is evident that you are no better than the likes of Uthaman.
  Take a hike.
  
  
• From: Normal Man (@ 12.239.125.16) on: Wed Sep 18 22:19:48 EDT 2002
  
  Satish ...... everyone knows MSV is one of the greatest MD's of TFM. But you argument of degrading IR totally would irke and irritate a lot. So better mind the words you post and what you say (if you can think). Talking ill about a person (IR), who has achieved more than what you can ever imagine, will not make others great. Before posting just think for a minute, "ennaku arugadjai iruukaaa" .....
  
  THIS POST APPLIES TO ALL WHO MAKE DERAGATORY REMARKS AGAINST ACHIEVERS IN TFM
  
  
• From: outsider (@ 203.91.150.145) on: Thu Sep 19 00:05:24 EDT 2002
  
  Here is a tiding for x:
  
  x, if you have time re-visit the topic "SPB songs for tfm". And re-participate if you like.
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.38) on: Thu Sep 19 01:27:19 EDT 2002
  
  Satish.. if you don't know what we mean.. become a member of direct connect and download the bgms of IR i have and listen... Give me your impartial opinion. You words like 'peethify' don't project you as a matured fan who can discuss about old songs. I have seen all the movies more than once. BGM is most defenitely took a back seat.. Because dialogues were important. Don't even compare those movies even with present day movies. Ofcourse they were quality movies. Great lyrics. Great songs. Great acting. Great stories. Everything.. But saying Great BGM .. is more an attempt to undermine IR's work than anything else. I will store the BGMs of one of the movies you mentioned and the movies of IR then we shall discuss. These 'Vai chavadals' won't work out man. Only in the late 70s people started talking about rerecording. Even when we were too young. Putting down a man like IR just like that do not reflect your musical knowledge it reflects more about more about your ARR fanatiscism. We know your tricks man. You are just another ARR fanatic under the cover of MSV fan. For namesake you mentioned some MSV's movies. Listen to the interludes in the song 'Akkarai Cheemai Azaginile' .. for musically knowledgable it is a breath taking work. Listen to the prelude of 'Vellai Pura Ondru'... another masterpiece.. He is one guy who can make singers sing with Ragam, bhavam everything.. Not like singers singing in two takes.. without understanding of what they are singing.. Listen to Mouna Raagam BGM.. till date that is the best BGM tamil film has ever seen...
  Listen to the interludes of songs 'Chinna Chinna Vana kuyil'... 'Ival Oru Illanguruvi' you will find a work of genius... Try to listen to it carefullyBrushing off a musician is so easy.. Listen to his guitar opening in the song 'Vanengum Thanga' from Moonram Pirai.. It was done by IR... Can ARR do something like that?
  
  
  Following is excerpts from Guitar genius Prasanna... (Title track String orchestra was arranged/conducted by Prasanna for 'Lagaan'.)
  Listen to what he says...
  
  "
  I grew up with Raaja?s music and I can clearly see how I can revisit his old songs and find such technical virtuosity in his writing ? his unmatched use of chormaticism in ?Indianish? melodies, his extensive use of intricate counterpoint, his vast knowledge of Carnatic music, the ?correctness? of every chord in his songs and above all the speed with which he composes clearly show that the man is secure, knows exactly what he wants and delivers. Raaja has raised the standards of us, South Indian listeners so much, that there are many of us who never bothered to listen to Hindi songs for e.g.. (we never needed to, right?). He has raised the standards of musicianship to such a high level among studio musicians in Chennai (I realized the huge gulf, when I worked with string players in Bombay for e.g.) that many times I wonder how the musicians even played some of the parts that are there in his music.
  
  I have never heard a guitar even remotely out of tune in Raaja?s songs for example (believe me, that?s very rare in general). I have to make a special mention of Raaja?s use of the electric bass guitar. I have never heard such meticulous written bass parts (its clearly written carefully), as it is in Raaja?s - song after song after song. Mention also to some brilliant acoustic drum work (a lost and ancient art in India) on Raaja?s songs."
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.38) on: Thu Sep 19 01:34:55 EDT 2002
  
  " As far as i am concerned, i would say Ilaiyaraja is the composer of the century. If there is one single authority on 'orchestration' it can only be ilaiyaraja -
  
  Dr.Balamuralikrishna ( South Indian Classical Music Virtuoso )"
  
  
• From: God (@ 161.142.100.86) on: Thu Sep 19 02:02:44 EDT 2002
  
  >>>Listen to his guitar opening in the song 'Vanengum Thanga' from Moonram Pirai.. It was done by IR... Can ARR do something like that?
  
  
  There are 100s of things that ARR can do that IR cannot do.
  
  So?
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.38) on: Thu Sep 19 02:05:04 EDT 2002
  
  What are they? Enlighten us...
  
  
• From: God (@ 161.142.100.86) on: Thu Sep 19 02:25:55 EDT 2002
  
  You mean you do not know ANYTHING about ARR?
  
  Then why do you talk about a subject that you do not know?
  
  
• From: God (@ 161.142.100.86) on: Thu Sep 19 02:27:37 EDT 2002
  
  If you are serious about wanting to know about ARR, open a fresh thread and I will come and educate you.
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.38) on: Thu Sep 19 02:29:37 EDT 2002
  
  Your education can take place here... you have posted lots of dirty postings.. Your talks about ARR won't be worse than them...
  
  
• From: God (@ 161.142.100.86) on: Thu Sep 19 02:37:53 EDT 2002
  
  Not my education, your education.
  And talking about dirty postings, if your memory fails you, let me remind you that it was you who started them first.
  
  I am trying not to contaminate unrelated threads.
  If you are really interested, start the thread.
  
  If your intention is otherwise ....
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.38) on: Thu Sep 19 11:09:47 EDT 2002
  
  Well... so you know the reality.. that there is nothing much to talk about his music... Glad you knew that.
  
  
• From: Sathish A Great fan of MSV (@ 68.18.65.234) on: Thu Sep 19 21:57:10 EDT 2002
  
  i am sorry i was too emotional that i realized i hit very badly on IR. I am sorry. But please dont make me unnecessary ejected by saying ARR is bad and IR is only good this that ....this that...
  i can not accept someone who realy did good things to Thamizh music ThamizhThamizhThamizh music!! They all r wonderful. May be every body does XEROX because they may be their inspiration.
  Any way I am sorry I degraded IR by being provoked unnecessarily by post IR "fanatic" friends. XEROX may be part of music but not music itself a XEROX (Deva/BW!!).
  
  AWE- Comming to ARR, yes I am with ARR/MSV (also IR pre-92!). Let me list out the songs below,
  
  Roja songs - rukkumani, Yen Veetu Thottathil,
  Netru illatha matram, kannukku mai yezhudhu, uirum neeye udalum neeye, chandhiranai thottadhu yaar, kanavaa illai kaatraa ,thee thee thithikkum, konjam nilavu, rasathi yen, anjali, theme music of Bombay, Ratchagan, Muthu (chakaravaagam raagam - i rate this is one of the best classic after ullathil nall ullam from Karnan), Padaiyappa. Wait i am just moochu yerachifying...
  do you want to say more after these in Tamil... i think whole world knows about them!!
  
  let us go to Hindi ... All the songs from Doli Sajake Rakhna (i rate this is the greatest film song from ARR!), Rangeela - Yayeere, Thanha (a classical tune - nothing can be compared to this flow of the music!), Pyaryee, Kya karenge (no one can beat the violin beat of this song!! - look @ the grip of the violin mamu), All songs from Dilse... man I am very tired... because I am talking about ARR on 2 language very flent scores.
  
  I just want to ask u one thing. How many hindustani successfully scored by IR?? He is a very big failure in Hindi - i mean his music is not attracted to Hindi audience - it is basically understanding (i mean knowledge) of other audience pulse. it is very important for any musicians who aspire for other than Thamizh audience. In this sense hats-off to ARR. He showed he is slightly better than IR in terms of attacting the audiences ofcourse throhgh his music composing style.
  
  One thing i will tell u, u must agree with me - just imagine in thamizh itself we have seen more than 100s of 1000s of various song tunes - right?
  can u believe someone still be able to attract even the international audience all over the world - please accept ARR because the whole world accepted ARR. Finally i just listened to Bombay Dreams - what a song was that "Dont release me!".
  
  D B Yesterday MSV was great, Yesterday IR was great and today is the day of ARR! so let us being thamizh makkal - we must appreciate his music talent. if any one who objects to this - i deeply regret for their ignorance!! - thank u!
  
  
• From: Sathish A Great fan of MSV (@ 68.18.65.234) on: Thu Sep 19 21:59:44 EDT 2002
  
  a small correction in my previous post. please read "Roja songs - rukkumani" as "All Roja songs - except rukkumani"
  
  
• From: Sathish A Great fan of MSV (@ 68.18.65.234) on: Thu Sep 19 22:11:19 EDT 2002
  
  AWE, for orchastration music, instrument mixing - i still feel ARR is the King. Example - All the theme music for the best orchastration - Bombay is the best of all. Doli Saja Ke rahna was the best in Hindi.
  
  Mixing - All the ARR songs. He mixes instrument by instrument - paarthale paravasam "jillambadavam"/"Andha Arabi Kadaloram" are the best example of mixing.
  
  
  
• From: God (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Thu Sep 19 22:26:52 EDT 2002
  
  >>>Well... so you know the reality.. that there is nothing much to talk about his music... Glad you knew that.
  
  This guy doen not speak sense.
  He just wants to have the last word.
  Period.
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.59.180) on: Fri Sep 20 00:17:11 EDT 2002
  
  Ok Satish is a mega version of 'God' ... He has listed all the movies ARR has scored for.. Good.. It barely crossed three lines.. You are talking about Violin in IR songs? Man... Did you disappear from 1976 to 1992 from this world? I am just wondering.. IR is such a famous violin exponent.. Have you listened to the violin in Mella Mella Ennai Thottu song? Rakkamma Kaya Thattu Violin? Kala Kalamaga song from Punnagai Mannan? If i start listing IR's violin usage in TFM.. i will go on and on and on.. "Kannukku mai yezudhu" it was Azaghu there has never been such song scored by ARR.. you don't even remember the title of the song.. People can forget. I agree.. Since that song was in your "elite" list one would expect you to write it correctly. When you have to hold your breadth just for 15 or 16 songs.. Imagine how much breath i should hold for 1000s of songs. Sivaji never acted in hindi movies. Can we say he is a worse actor than say Salman Khan? What is your problem pal? Music is the same everywhere. Illayaraja is a brilliant carnatic and western classical exponent. ARR has failed as a folk musician and carnatic musician.
  I am in U.S. I am not attracted to his 'teeny pop' songs music. ARR is an hindustani music exponent huh? Enlighten me with his Hindustani Music based songs. Let me know. Who are those international audiences? Indians living in U.K? London's population is not even half the population of Chennai. Get real man. I am sick and tired of the stereotyped arguments like he is internationally famous.. Nobody knows him in U.S except Indians.Pretty much the same in U.K. Ok. So Satish you virtually accepted that ARR is no good in Tamil.. so you had to borrow defense from his projects in Hindi. Come on man.. that is a poor defense.. The truth is he has scored only around 30 or 40 tamil movies in 10 years period which is an appalling rate for any musician. What way his music helped a movie? That is the important thing. Has he scored music for classics like Salangai Oli, Sippikkul Muthu, Moonram Pirai, Sindhu Bhairavi, Nayagan, Mouna Raagam, Mudhal Mariyathai, Kadalora Kavithaigal, Unnal Mudiyum Thambi, Anjali, Man Vaasanai, Keladi Kanmani, Johny, Mullum Malarum, Engeyo Ketta Kural, Poove Poochudava, Varusham 16.... all those movies ran for more than 150 days. Can you tell me how many ARR movies ran for 100 days let alone 150 or 200 days. Sakalakala Vallavan is a pure masala movie. How come it ran for 250 days. Karagattakaran is an ordinary movie. How come it ran for 365 days? Why not one of those ARR's movies run for 100 days? List any movies of him other than Rajini movie which would run anyway. Don't say he won't care about how the movie runs. Probably the worst movies fo MR in his life are Thiruda Thiruda and Idhaya Kovil. Idhaya Kovil ran for 100 days.. What about Thiruda Thiruda?
  He is totally a failure as a music director. His job is to help the movie. But he uses the movie to project himself. Most of his songs look like thrusted into the movie. Excessive use of english words, atroscious vocals from hindi singers, Mediocre lyrics, stolen pop tunes these are all his ingredients. Poyaai Pala Murai Sonnal Unmai Agi Vidathu
  
  

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