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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sun Nov 22 17:01:50 EST 1998
  
  vijay, ARR has influenced SAR more than deva. watchout for a dappanguthu version of haira haira hairappa in simmarasi....earlier he copied kannalane..
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wd021.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Nov 22 17:23:55 EST 1998
  
  Balaji,
  Songs like 'haira haira ' are not worth even one time listening, IMO. IF SAR goes to the extent of copying that, it is just unbearable, IMO. Whoever is doing this must be out of his mind, IMHO. However,this view is NOT to counter by saying whatever DEVA copies is good, for he copied "vanga machAn vAnga vantha vazhiya pAthu pOnga" tune to suit his song "kothavAl sAvadi lady nee kOyambedu vAdi". I think it is not worth, IMO.
  
  Regarding KR doing music for IR, I think he may not be doing so since songs from the album MVU sound very much IRish. I could not see any overuse of synth in the interludes, the interludes were good though.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ bluebird.qut.edu.au) on: Mon Nov 23 04:12:15 EST 1998
  
  Try listening to "aalamarathu kuyile" - Annan, "thinam vidinthathum"-Dharma and "thathi thathi aadum poove" - Thalaimurai, it just proves that IR can still make music sound as fresh as he did in the 80s. No excessive use of synth.. just good melody. Of course, IMO he has spoilt several recent songs with jarring electronic orchestration ("iru kangal"- Dharma), but I look at it more as a lack of inspiration than anything else. I'm sure given a good plot/ crew like GURU he can create magic like nobody else. I have a strong feeling that his "Kaadhal Kavidhai" will be a show-stopper.
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Thu Feb 25 18:19:50 EST 1999
  
  revived in wake of recent discussions on ARR's impact on IR, esp. in KK, and i also heard that YSR's new album, poovellaam kEttuppAr is heavily influenced by ARR (sukvinder singh has sung a song too! )
  
  
• From: (for) Geetha (@gatekeeper) (@ hope.cs.umass.edu) on: Fri Feb 26 12:59:05 EST 1999
  
  Replying to comments in the New Albums of ARR thread.
  
  Raj: What about the Ila Arun Number in KK? It's so much like Muthu Muthu
  from ARR's Mr Romeo.... hhhhmmm where was the inspiration for this? Was
  it from BBC/Discovery/CNN? Did they suddenly play Oru Mani Adithaal on
  BBC or Mr Romeo songs on Discovery? Please don't get me wrong, your view
  is a little niave don't you think? In this day of sattelite TV in every
  house in India, do you really believe that he hasn't heard any other
  MD's music? It's like ARR is once said to have commented, 'I listen to
  no other MD's music'....hhhmmmmm, where can the truth be in that? I
  never said, "Raja copied ..so Deva or Rahman have free licence to copy",
  however, if OUR STANDARD - IR, for TFM does these things - nowadays,
  more than in the past(admit it, Deva is in a similar boat to him, many
  many films, not enough time to create tunes), other MD's are bound to
  follow suit....Deva, of course takes the 'copying' thing to a limit most
  of the time, but is also aware of his 'limitation'....
  
  Please do listen to the other numbers I mentioned, it may reveal why I'm
  so upset with IR. After his many master-pieces in TFM, why is he
  choosing to create music like Thathithakka by Ila Arun? This is my quib
  with his recent music. I heard the songs and BGM of Rajavin Paarvaiyile
  and it was so much better, however, when IR does an ARRish album like KK
  and MVU, all of you commend it like crazy?!?!? When ARR does it, to 'his
  style', may I add, you put him down.
  
  Raj, for your comment, "So, when people like you start accepting Deva,
  it is bad for TFM, is what I feel. And this came about simply because
  Rahman doesnt have the genius to keep you occupied throughput the year
  with more and more quality output. Hence you are forced to deign to go
  down to Deva's level."
  
  What can I say, I spend my time listening to all TFM, how many songs in
  my list hadn't YOU listened to? I listen to those of every MD, not just
  ARR. It's like you condeming the Trinity of Carnatic Music, saying that
  one is better than the other. My preference will be Dikshitar for the
  'technical' complexity of his compositions, but I do not condem
  Thayagarajar for not exploring this aspect but concentrating on the
  'Bhakthi' aspect(9 types of Bhakthi). I appreciate both for their
  individual talent. Likewise, I listen to all that is available and make
  my own compilations of the best songs, whoever the MD is..... Many a
  time, I pick one or two good songs out of every album, as very rarely
  are all the songs listenable.... In the case of ARR, I must admit, most
  songs grow on one for a while and after that, only the good one's remain
  in memory....e.g. In Uyire, 'Nenjinile', 'Poongaatrile', in Jeans,
  'Kannodu' and 'Adhisayam'.... This is also true for other MD's.....
  
  So, in your books, it's OK for Karthik Raja or Vidhyasaagar or even IR
  nowadays, to sound ARRish, but not ARR(to sound like himself)?
  
  I will also add, as many have said before, IMO, IR's new work is not
  comparable to his work of the Eighties, if you remember the music of
  Pagal Nilavu, for example, it's totally 'fresh' even now. My main
  concern is that in his new attempts, e.g. Nandhavanakuyile from
  Ponnuveetukaaran, excellent melody, IMO, Bad interludes and
  orchestration....However, the exception to all these is Alai Meedhu from
  KK....Again, he's used the layering technique, from the bass to the
  flowing instrumentation, LAYERING being an ARR technique. I will say
  that it's a brilliant attempt with the technique and that he should do
  more like it.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri Feb 26 13:23:37 EST 1999
  
  Thanks for reviving this thread Ravi and Gang....
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Feb 26 23:27:43 EST 1999
  
  geetha: Just one doubt, three rather.
  1. What is layering?
  2. Does ARR hold copyrights over it?
  3. There has been no layering ever before in the world?
  
  Thanks in advance for (going to ) enlighten(ing) me !
  
  
• From: SM (@ pmnat01-p02.sgum.mci.com) on: Sat Feb 27 01:45:34 EST 1999
  
  IMO, quality in IR's recent songs is nowhere near the quality in his 80s songs. I still enjoy "Germanyin", "ore naaL", "kanmaniyae", "aagaaya Gangai" and much much more. The list is very big. But, his recent songs - I was very much disappointed with KK songs although the BGM was brilliant, like no one else could ever imagine. But, as far as songs are concerned, the quality is not the same. It has gone down. I am surprised as his BGM is still brilliant and, in fact, has improved a lot (eg. KK, Housefull) from his previous films. As far as ARR is concerned, his songs sounds good (although not like the everlasting melodies of IR, obviously) but his BGM needs to improve a lot.
  
  
• From: Suresh (@ bowerbird.qut.edu.au) on: Sat Feb 27 06:50:27 EST 1999
  
  The TFM gang!!
  
  Well, now that you've chosen to ghost-post for Geetha, no one can say that TFM page is IR-centric. A singular diplomatic coup a la the Lahore bus.
  
  Not being given to resist a bait for too long, here's my 2-bit 'in-defense-of-the-one-and-only..'
  
  I hold no candles for KK. By IR standards, it's an ordinary effort.
  But, what about the Ila Arun # in KK? what in heavens it's got to do with Muthu Muthu except the horrendous vocals behind both of them? Does using a singer in a song of a similar genre constitute 'copying'in ur dictionary?
  
  Now, would you agree that the KK songs fared better than Mr.Romeo? should we say that this then is IR's comeuppance, beating the 'master' at his own game?
  
  Knowing IR's lifestyle & his work pattern, you wouldn't expect him to watch MTV grind, or for that matter, Top 10, would you? Now, OK, let's say that he does indeed sneakily catch up with all those mod-mad, hip-hop nos., do you honestly think that he's scurrying off to record notes for his next no. or in the true fashion of present-day TFM, do a cut & paste? Tch, Tch, Unfair, my friends:((
  
  I may not have a musical bone in my body, but it confounds me everytime I hear Oru Mani Adithal being claimed as the genesis for Diana. Fearing the wrath of fellow TFMers who can discern a common note, a raga or indeed a whole composition pattern underlying the two, I haven't dared to contest the claim. But, what the heck, isn't this just a wild shot you folks are taking to mark the ultimate insult you can heap on even a Sirpi? Copying from Deva?? What a better way than this to see him bite the dust?
  
  I share your anguish about Thathom, but what about my young friends who have suddenly found this one IR song catchy among all others in the recent past? Thanks for remembering Rajavin Parvaiyile, but what happened at the'box-office', the centre for moolah-worship? And whatever happened to Guru, Kaalapani, Mohamull, Vanaja Girija etc..etc.. If all you well-meaning, broad-minded, universal music lovers, had bought a cassette each, Ir wouldn't have had to resort to a Thathom to feature finally in that Bible of TFM, the TOp 10.
  
  Nobody's commending MVU and KK like crazy; in fact, IMO, criticism of these by the so-called HCIRF's has been more strident than is voiced by the 'liberals' and HCARRF on ARRs recent albums.
  Anyway, wasn't KK a better (commercial) hit than all the above-mentioned films? If IR gives you his brand of music, he's stale, stuck in a time-warp. Then he says, what the heck, let's give these guys what they want; throw in a few synth sounds, & get HH to warble a la ARR, & voila! produces a hit like "ennai thalatta" or Diana. Only to have all the critics pounce on him for despoiling TFM, & in the same instance, run ahead to wax eloquent on other threads about a Jeans or a Nerukku Ner... Poetic justice, my friends:(
  
  And, all you folks have to do to throw us off track is to quote a Dikshithar or a complex briga or two, smug in your assurance that it will confound and deter further defence :(
  
  As for those memorable nos. you've quoted from recent ARR hits, to each one his/her biases. Atleast, let's not talk of taking the moral high ground of neutrality here.
  
  After someone claimed that MSV found light music in TFM, now ARR, the Einstein of layering! Wow, what genius-virtuosos at two ends of a generation with a long, barren stretch in between? Now that IR has also 'layered' his alai meedhu, what a sudden brilliance in his composition? From MSV to ARR to Deva, IR never seems to be wanting for inspirations. So lucky has IR been! So shall he stay with the emergence of every new shining talent! (no, KR, YSR excluded; reservation policy!)
  
  Jai Mustafa! Jai Koyambedu Lady!
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.144) on: Sat Feb 27 07:04:54 EST 1999
  
  Great Suresh!
  Whether I agree with your views 100% or not, your presentation is simply out of the world & I liked it much.
  Continue the good job!
  
  

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