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Apart from Ilayaraja who is well versed in Tamil literature, no music director understands simple Tamil words leave alone poetry

Topic started by Guru (@ 129.49.80.172) on Sun Sep 29 07:09:39 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Quality of film songs has gone down: Lyricists
Our Staff Reporter
Chennai, Sept 29:

Leading film lyricists who participated in the centenary celebrations of lyricist and poet Udumalai Narayanakavi organised by the Sahitya Akademi and Kavya Circle in the city yesterday were unanimous in their opinion that the quality of film songs has degenerated. While veteran lyricist Vali candidly remarked that films had nothing to do with aesthetics or arts and that it was purely a business, popular lyricist Vairamuthu blamed it on the changing times. However, poetess Thamarai provided some comfort to those seeking improvement in film songs when she said lyricists should not bow to the whims and fancies of producers and directors who expect abject verses from them. Thamarai said she declined to pen a song on fashion shows and beauty contests recently. Although she had earned a bad name by such acts, she had successfully avoided writing vulgar and obscene lines. Lyricists should have social responsibility as films and its songs have considerable impact on the people especially youth, she said in a soft but determined tone. Film industry was not purely a business and it had artistic value too, she observed. She hailed Narayanakavi as a poet who propagated rationalism and social reforms and vowed to follow in his footsteps.

Thamarai said all Tamil poets from Ilango who created the epic Silappadhikaran were emotionally attached to Cauvery. Cauvery is not only a river. It is our cultural symbol and the origin of of our civilisation. Poets should be in the forefront of an agitation to secure the release of Cauvery water, which is our right, Thamarai said.

Vairamuthu who spoke later said the deterioration of films songs was a reflection of the changing times. He speculated that he would have penned good songs with quality in both content and form if he was in the film industry four decades earlier. He came out with a revelation that the most popular lyricist Kannadasan had planned to take up journalism after he returned from US (where he died) suggesting that the most successful lyricist who reigned supreme in the Tamil celluloid world was not able to cope with the pressures of modern film industry.

Vairamuthu justified English words in Tamil songs saying that they were used only for humour and fun. Only Tamil words were used for serious situations, he said.

Unlike Vairamuthu who offered several excuses and tried to defend the lyricists, Vali who spoke earlier said film songs were penned for loaves and fishes. Those who claim that they are doing yeoman service to arts and literature by producing films are deceiving people. It is all defrauding the common man. I am in this field for more than 45 years and I know what is happening, he observed.

The other lyricist Muthulingam who also spoke, attributed the deplorable standard of film songs to the lack of Tamil literary knowledge among music directors, producers and directors. Apart from Ilayaraja who is well versed in Tamil literature, no music director understands simple Tamil words leave alone poetry, he remarked.

Muthulingam recalled the achievements of the Justice Party and the association of Narayanakavi with the Dravidian movement. Earlier, a book titled Udumalai Narayanakavi written by K Shanmugasundaram was released by Vali and the first copy was received by Lion V Balakrishnan. Muthulingam also released Udumala Narayana Kaviyin Paadalgal, a collection of Narayanakavis songs. Malayalam writer S Gitendranath delivered the introductory address.

http://www.newstodaynet.com/29sep/ld8.htm

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: geeth (@ 213.121.248.170) on: Wed Oct 2 04:39:30 EDT 2002
  
  Awe,
  this song was written by Vaali.
  
  
• From: guru (@ 129.49.80.170) on: Wed Oct 2 06:06:54 EDT 2002
  
  It is soundarya lahari by adi sankara
  
  
• From: geeth (@ 213.121.248.170) on: Wed Oct 2 07:22:52 EDT 2002
  
  guru, u mean the full song or the starting sanskrit thokhaiyaraa ? if it is by adi sankara what could be the time period of this song ?
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Oct 2 07:57:27 EDT 2002
  
  Geeth
  
  Only in Tamil it is called a thogayarah.
  
  
  It is actually Adi Sankara s Soundaraya Lagari I sloga with which the song starts.The Papanasam-Sivan modelled Tamil lyrics are by Vali.(Like say Dheena lochani manala thandavamadum sabapathe! and its a tamil song)The chanting of this is for well being.(Ella nanmaigalum vilaya)
  
  IR s facination for Saudarya Lagari can be seen in Kadhal ooviyam when the song "Nadhiyil aadum ppovanam" starts with "Avignanam anthas" the II sloga of Soundaraya Lahari.( As per LIFCO Anna s explanations it is meant to enhance your knowledge -Vedap porul Vilanga)
  
  I dont know till date as to how it suited the movie and the song.
  
  Adi Sankara s period is roughly 7th Century AD.
  
  
• From: guru (@ 129.49.149.179) on: Wed Oct 2 07:59:49 EDT 2002
  
  what i understand is: it was original soundarya lahari in sanskrit..raja composed the tune for the original sanskrit one and felt that only in tamil it could reach the masses effectively. So raja used the thokaiyaraa from SL and without tampering the original essences wrote a tamil version and composed the ever green -jananijanani
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Oct 2 10:11:30 EDT 2002
  
  Guru
  
  You have NOT understood!Wrote a Tamil version...Orignal essences ...God!
  
  Ethu enga poi mudiyumo!
  
  
• From: guru (@ 129.49.149.179) on: Wed Oct 2 11:15:59 EDT 2002
  
  Mannichuko thalaiva...enkitta yaaro eppadidhaan sonnanga...
  
  btw what do u think about the unnecessary hype that these ARR guys are creating for KV..just as they did for BABA..all for a flop??
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 2 12:08:02 EDT 2002
  
  cosmician..that song really was authored by IR. Udhaya, our resident lyricist here, does not think highly of IR's lyric writing skills. But,I feel he does a good job. Maybe not poetic with flowery language but surely makes a good song.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Oct 2 13:07:26 EDT 2002
  
  I have great respect and regard for IR as a composer. His tunes will outlive - and I have said this before - you, me and Time. That's enough to make his name immortal.
  But let's call a spade a spade shall we? IR is not a lyricist. Period. (Just as much as SPB is not an actor, or Gangai Amaran not a Director, or any number of others who've tried their hand at something other than their metier. Just because they are artistes in a position of power, and have a following in one arena, it does not mean that their forays in other artistic fields are necessarily meritorious or worthy of accolades, Nor should they be allowed any concessions - concessions that we would not easily allow those who ONLY make their living (and practice their ART) only as Lyricists, Directors, Singers etc. )
  
  What is a "good job" ?
  
  "Idhayam Oru Kovil, Adhil Udhayam Oru Padal,
  Idhil Vazhum Devi Nee, Isaiyai Malarai Naalum Sootuven." Really, can these be called profound or pathbreaking/ radical lyrics? Even the rhyme-scheme and meter in this example is of the Ba Ba Black Sheep variety.
  
  To say that IR has offered many good SONGS (tunes/composition) is a statement of fact. To say that "he does a good job", and then in the same breath add "maybe not poetic with flowery language" - not only muddles the criteria (for lyrics) but also sounds like an apology for elementary literary skills.
  Let's not defend the indefensible. Particularly, when there are established "standards" of Lyricism in TFM.
  
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Oct 2 13:51:58 EDT 2002
  
  naaz:
  
  you took the wrong example to denounce IR-the lyricist (dont ask me to give a right example - i dont listen to the words for most tamizh songs - the last one i noticed was padikkaTTumA padikkaTTumA; beautiful - who was the lyricist?). thamizh-la aNi-ilakkaNam-nu onnu irukku, padinga. oruththaRap pidikkalEngaRAdhukkAga shouldn't write something blindly.
  
  according to my standards, after kaNNadhAsan (leaving aside the sporadic brilliance of vAli) we are yet to see good lyrics writers in tamizh. out of the bunch of mediocrity we have aRivumathi, gangai amaran and iLaiyarAjA are the only ones that are any good. out of the three, it's a tough question as to who has more tamizh knowledge. in an absolute scale of appreciation, i personally believe (and know) that IR ranks high.
  
  of course, i was digressing talking about the lyrics writers. among the living/composing music composers, the only one who comes close to IR in tamizh appreciation, imo, is gangai amaran (and may be dEvA). i dont think if good tamizh hit others on their face they would be able to recognize it.
  
  
• From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (@ 129.49.149.179) on: Wed Oct 2 14:21:11 EDT 2002
  
  Mudhalla unga moonjila irukkura azhukkai paarunga..apparum enga mudhugula irukkara azhukku patthi pesalaam...dont just write blindly if u dont like IR....ARRala...tamil vaarthai kooda ozhunga use panna theriyaadhu....
  
  nee oru example dhaan kuduthe....nan examples eduthu vidutaaa.......thani threadkku vareengalada??
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Oct 2 14:56:43 EDT 2002
  
  hihi:-) :
  
  Thanks for your comeback.
  
  " thamizh-la aNi-ilakkaNam-nu onnu irukku, padinga. oruththaRap pidikkalEngaRAdhukkAga shouldn't write something blindly. "
  
  I would like to assert, unequivocally, that I did not write the above "blindly." On the contrary, I wrote with my ears open.
  
  The example I chose was random. I admit that. I can say Oru Paanai Sotrukku Oru Arisi...you get my drift. And, yes, I have heard the "lyrics" you've quoted.
  
  Your "dgression" is the main thrust of this thread. So let us investigate that. Not only that - let us also bear in mind the convenient de-contextualising that is evident in singling out one line from the above pre-amble.
  
  For starters, there are two (huge) leaps of faith we are being asked to make in the topic headline.
  
  One: Appreciation of Tamizh Lyricism/Literature, Awareness and Knowledge of Tamizh Literary History does not, in and of itself, lead to "literary/lyrical" brilliance. But we are asked to take that at face-value.
  
  Two: Having singled out one composer who also occasionally doubles as "lyricist" we are asked to subscribe to something like "substitutional superiority." Great Composer with Tamizh Literary Appreciation = Only Composer with Tamizh Literary Appreciation.
  
  I am sure there are many willing to jump across these fallacies, and that is a sign of their faith. Alas, I am not given to such divine sport. Call me a skeptic.
  
  There is something else that is being blurred in these assertions: Lyric (from Lyre - the instrument)is "words" sung to musical accompaniment. Lyricism is "quality/style of those words." So, I am not sure what is being discussed here: Just the words? Or the quality of those words?
  This leads to the follow-on confusion (in terminology) What do we mean when we use words like "song" - in this specific context?
  My understanding of the word (its primary meaning) is "composition to be rendered by voice." If one goes with this meaning with regards to TFM - then we should be discussing IRs compositions (sung by others or by him.) "Good song" then becomes "art of singing." This can be entirely note-based. No lyrics.
  If we take "song" to also mean "poetry suited to musical expression," then we get back to the business of "lyricism" - which is style and quality of THAT expression.
  And it was in this respect that I was evaluating IRs potential (or lack of) as a lyricist. For no discussion of "lyricism" can be devoid of "standards" of judgment.
  
  And that's exactly how your post begins - with telling diction - "wrong" and "right" :-)
  
  (Your honesty is refreshing. I hope the above is taken and understood in the "spirit" of this discussion. And not as some insidious attempt to tranish IRs iconic status.)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Oct 2 15:48:29 EDT 2002
  
  Why does every sincere attempt to engage in a serious, intellectual and quality discussion degenerate into "personality" wars and personal muck-ering?
  Did I not state my utmost respect and regard for IR right at the beginning - in the first line of my first post? Did I not present a coherent sequence of my thinking and analysis? Did I ever - EVER - mention ARR or his tamizh or any other such thing about anybody else?
  
  If this is the level of maturity and this the calibre of engagement people are capable of -
  
  Well, continue the discussion. You are all in sound company, is all I can say.
  
  

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