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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

1.Vedha:i know he always go for a hindi tune in his films(mostly for Modern theatres).No alterations! he just copy a full hindi song !

best examble:Manam ennum medai mele(Gil tho ye kulu yahag)

2.MSV: i hear that(from Sujatha's book"Neerkumiligal") "thulluvatho elamai" was a song copied from english to almost all famous indian langages.Is there any other songs MSV copied?

3.Illayaraja:Even the GOD of MUSIC Raja sir did some thing like this.He just used that "I love you"style from BOneyM Sunny for "darling darling"in priya.I have heard a totally same song like "Kanavu kanum valkkai yavum" in Hindi also.(i forgot the film).

and i dont know who is the MD for the song"ehu pal vadiyum mugam! ethai parpathu than sugam".But i heard the same song in an english film.

4.ARR : i was told from my friends that he did copying intelligently.drum beats and some music styels from cassettes like "enigma,ace of base".And the humming before the song "thillana thillana" is a 100%copy from the film"the island of Dr.Mozeru".

5.SA Rajkumar : a lot of help from hindi! best example "mallikai puve malligai puve parthaya" from "didi tera thevaru thevana"

5.DEVA:hee..hee..the master.(better we see how many songs he did on his own instead of seeing how many songs he copied!)

like wise there is a lot of songs are copied from Tamil to Hindi also..

Now its your turn friends....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 15:43:27 EDT 2000
  
  yes iam the one that MIDIs. Are u naveen jebaraj?
  Well, the chord progressions apart, this song ba ba re had the same alto and soprano arrangements. Thats why i say they are quite similar.
  Its not true (I feel) that most old songs had simple Maj-Dom-Sub Dom chords. It depends on the style. Rivers of babylon and like were Gospels. While ba ba re was a typical big band classic. I cant get the name. Sorry
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Fri May 5 15:53:55 EDT 2000
  
  Krishnamurthy: Are you in Oklahoma State? Welcome to the Forum and looking forward to your insightful contributions!
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 16:01:32 EDT 2000
  
  Another big band for example is 'oho megam vandhado'. Although a big band, theres this wonderful interlude which goes 'naanum yengeyum pogalaam....' just before the pallavi. The chords goes like this
  AM7 - Bm6 - CAug - C#m - DM7 - Eb dim 7th - DM7
  Theres a semitone change of the root from A to Eb.
  This chord progression is not quite the place where one would expect in this kind of a song. Yet it fitted in neatly! Ilayaraja has given us quality music there.
  So my point is its difficult to split a tamil song into chord progressions and give an opinion of its style or the place it was copied from. Our music has lot of derivatives. A bit of jazz here, a rock and roll there - and some tabla + ethnic stuff elsewhere. But its almost possible to 'catch' where this particular phrase is derived from.
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 16:03:54 EDT 2000
  
  By the way that song was from mouna raagam. Yes iam in Okl state.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 16:08:55 EDT 2000
  
  I missed Bb dim 7th, just after AM7
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ proxy2o.dpn.deere.com) on: Fri May 5 16:33:33 EDT 2000
  
  Krishna,
  
  Yes, I'm Naveen Jebaraj. In Ba ba re song there is nothing special in Alto & Soprano. Guys are singing the notes in a Major chord & a 7th chord again and again. As this is a simple harmony, u must have heard similar patterns in other songs.
  In 'Rivers of Babylon' I meant the notes. Not the style.
  In 50s & 60s there were many love songs with a simple chord progression as I said.
  another example Rock music. 7th illannaa sethuruvaanga!
  
  The song 'Oho Megam Vandhadhu' is a real good song. Did you find the source? :) Never believe Maniratnam's Movie songs! just kidding!
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ proxy2o.dpn.deere.com) on: Fri May 5 16:39:40 EDT 2000
  
  p.s Your Midi compositions are excellent.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri May 5 16:40:22 EDT 2000
  
  Naveen/krish and others,
  My friend told me once that he had heard the western original of 'punnagai mannan' theme. though i did not get a chance to hear the original, i believe that he is credible enough.
  if any of u guys know the source pl. let me know.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri May 5 16:42:40 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG,
  thanx for your comments. i also hope that shashi, rjay,Naveen would take part actively in your group. I have'nt seen shashi in this forum for quite a while.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 16:43:00 EDT 2000
  
  I didnt mean it was special. I meant they were EXACTLY the same notes and hence a COPY.
  The 7th inversion was EXACTLY the same!
  No, I couldnt find the source of Oho megam. If anyone does let us all know.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 16:44:34 EDT 2000
  
  Thanks Naveen, I liked your punnagai mannan and Ragtime. You are a good pianist. Send us more stuff.
  
  
• From: haris (@ inet-fw1-o.oracle.com) on: Fri May 5 16:45:50 EDT 2000
  
  neenga chandai pOttukittE irunga.. andha site-a yErkanavE innoruthar aarambichuttAnga...
  
  http://www.muthamil.com/isai/html/inspirations.html
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ esboaat.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri May 5 16:52:22 EDT 2000
  
  Thanks for the source haris!
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ proxy2o.dpn.deere.com) on: Fri May 5 16:58:46 EDT 2000
  
  Thanx Krishna.
  
  Vijay,
  I too suspect 'Punnagai Mannan' theme. But without proof we cannot talk about anything.
  I have even heard the traces of 'Mouna Ragam' Piano theme.
  
  RajaG,
  G major's Relative Minor is E minor. Both have one sharp (F#) D7th
  I guess I used a wrong word 'Relative 7th'
  Dominant 7th would be better. (D7th) for G Major
  & Subdominant chord (C) major.
  
  
• From: Genius (@ srirama.intecom.com) on: Fri May 5 18:51:47 EDT 2000
  
  Mughavari, Poo virinjachu!!!!
  http://www.cheap-cds.com/surf/play/186869ab.mp3
  
  This is Deva!!
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ tide70.microsoft.com) on: Fri May 5 19:03:24 EDT 2000
  
  ---- HEAVY DIGRESSION AND PERSONAL RESPONSE -----
  
  RajaG
  
  As much as I like the current trend of discussion, I WOULD DIGRESS AND POINT OUT THAT I AM interested in healthy discussion in the forum As per your rather clever reply to my earlier posting,
  
  i. if I replied (and I have done that with this response),then I AM at fault for digression.
  ii. If I did not, then I WAS at fault for digressing in the previous mail.
  
  I decided that I will reply - now I'd have digressed twice but at least I'd defend myself now. So here it goes:
  
  If you were genuinely interested in not letting me digress you could have said saying "I think you are digressing here Ravi. Please refer to the previous posts". It would befit an experienced forumer like you to you post such a message...
  
  Instead you chose to assume that I was posting "under pretext of innocence". Did you realize that I could've very well not have refreshed the page for 30 minutes or could have been composing my previous message for a long time that I did not realize the thread was indeed back on track. Also, my post HAD NOTHING against anybody in particular! Even if I did go off-track, there was nothing in that message that warranted a serious allegation that I am not interested in letting good discussion continue and that I am trying to turn the topic. For heaven's sake, you could have simply ignored my post... why accuse me?
  
  You have seen me post TWICE in this thread - once with a suggestion (Did you read that suggestion? It was relevant to the topic. Some DFers like MS thought it was not a bad suggestion!) and once with a request to BB/Admin to step in to decide on the "Copy Page" issue (mainly because, there have been several tens of posts on this topic, but no decision has been taken) - and you've passed your judgement on me that I am not interested in letting the discussion continue... and better yet you phrased it such that I would feel guilty either way - if I reply or if I don't reply.
  
  I have been a lurker in newtfmpage for a long time and I started Posting only after being in "Read Only" mode for 7 months. You wouldn't have seen me post that often in any of the threads ( except music quiz/jest for fun). Even there, I've never digressed and been as polite as possible. I have great respect for lot of forumers for the knowledge they share here (including you).
  
  Your post, to simply put, was VERY DISCOURAGING. I hope not many people are dished out this attitude. I guess I should just stick to lurking instead of posting something and get blamed for maintaining unhealthy attitude in the forum.
  
  If you feel further digression in this thread is not appropriate, here is my e-mail: ravi_ra@hotmail.com. (That is a valid E-mail address that I check once a day).
  
  Thanks,
  Ravi
  
  ------------- END DIGRESSION -------------------
  
  
• From: Sabesan (@ ws-209-233-228-254.webvangroup.com) on: Fri May 5 21:53:14 EDT 2000
  
  hmm..... suddenly so quiet this thread for sometime.... probably Friday eveningaaaa :-)
  
  
• From: haris (@ inet-fw4-o.oracle.com) on: Fri May 5 22:13:44 EDT 2000
  
  sabesan,
  
  unakku yEnpaa.. chummA irukka mudiyalayA?? :-))
  
  
• From: Sirippu :)))) (@ 203.197.137.245) on: Sat May 6 01:58:59 EDT 2000
  
  Apart from 'discovering' copied works in TFM, this thread has contributed considerably to the essay writing skills of the forumers. There cannot be a creative work without an extraneous source of inspiration and this is true for anybody from SA Rajkumar to Shyama Sasthri and Beethoven. Please do not blindly place anybody (incl. your favourite WC composers) on a higher 'non-copy' pedestal than our great (read GREAT) film music composers.
  
  
• From: Bramathalam (@ 208.0.121.57) on: Sun May 7 13:21:25 EDT 2000
  
  Here is the answer from Copycat Deva. I feel its not an answer but an excuse. needs murasu anjal font to read the article:
  
  http://thirai.ambalam.com/backissue_cinema/MZ_07052000_C07_07.html
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Sun May 7 19:28:12 EDT 2000
  
  "saayal thavirkka mudiyaathathu" ? yeah..It cannot be prevented by the parties which compose them originally :-)
  
  

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