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Death of Tamil identity in Tamil cinema

Topic started by Ramakrishna (@ 209.179.214.237) on Thu Jan 3 22:23:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In the 80's and before, Tamil movies and songs had a flavor that made them unique. But in the 90's, there has been a slow but sure trend in Tamil movies where they have become more and more North-Indianized or even MTVised (if there is such a term).

Songs don't feature south Indian instruments like Nadhaswaram or the mridangham any more. Even the days of rich violin orchestrations of Illayaraja or Viswanathan Ramamurthy are over. Instead, the music has become more techno/pop and were it not for the lyrics, one cannot even recognize a lot of songs as being Indian, let alone Tamil.

Speaking of lyrics, the less said the better. Apart from being nonsensical, the heavy use of English phrases makes one wonder if these lyricists have secret desire to start a career with Motown.

Also why do most dance seqences feature Punjabi attire? Hello, these are supposed to be TAMIL movie about TAMILIANs.

How many times these days does a lead actress wear a saree and has a pottu? I mean, other than in Vijayakanth films.

Even other things insignificant ranging from background score to rolling credits at the end are blindly copied from Hollywood.

For me in my youth, a major portion of my cultural exposure to south Indian culture was through Tamil movies. I am afraid the current and future generations may not have that opportunity. Instead they would be stuck with watching dubbed Hindi movies because that is what Tamil movies these days essentially are.

I am not a Hindi basher but it is sad that regional language films are losing their identities to this relentless MTVisation.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Mon Jan 7 15:51:09 EST 2002
  
  >>No more responses from me on your posts.<<
  Thank you. They weren't making much sense.
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.125) on: Mon Jan 7 16:18:22 EST 2002
  
  The postings have also become like the current day music.. abrasive, loud,attacking,violent..
  
  ARR and Deva are the greatest MD's of all time , because they understand "SOUND" so well that they give it in abundance.
  
  Nalla kadhukku inimayane pattu kettu pala varushangal achu... some folks will say even there are lots of good melodious songs in current days too
  
  can anybody compare 'ennavalle adi ennavalle' with 'amudhai pozhium nilave" . Apparently the first one is supposedly a melodious song.
  
  There are some others will say the songs are keeping in with the current day trend. One thing we all have to UNDERSTAND is these film/music makers influence largely the living styles and likes/dislikes of the masses. if they give good soothing music people will like the same. if they give adhanda idhanda types of music continuously non stop, the masses will eventually have taskes akin to "CHERIS" of chennai.
  
  When we hear that 'Konjam Nilavu'in thiruda thiruda it is a different kind of music..but can anyone in the world tell lyrics ?(the lyrics is not worth hearing is another matter though) The sound that comes out in the song, even if u mute ur speaker the sound will be reverberating..
  It is not just that the quality of lyrics has gone down to uru sanam,manja kulichu,repeated use of nila,vanam..total degradation of TFM.
  
  I don't know why some guys keep on justifying. The anti-LOUD gang concedes that the new folks are great with computers, sounds and what not .. but please for heavens sake don't say that the music is of the same class..
  
  Nenju Porukudhilaiye Neju Porukudhilaiye ..
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.254) on: Mon Jan 7 17:18:31 EST 2002
  
  rasigan,
  
  What is wrong with the taste of people residing in "CHERIS" of chennai?I think they are also people who have genuine feeling/emotion towards music.How can that be inferior?
  Do you mean to say they will surely not like the song "amudhai pozhium nilave"?
  
  "Nenju Porukudhilaiye Neju Porukudhilaiye.."
  
  Bharathi may not feel happy reading your statement,IMO.
  
  Digression:
  Does experienced people naturally mean people with more wisdom and clarity of thought?Just curious..
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 204.154.71.101) on: Mon Jan 7 17:26:20 EST 2002
  
  Trend..
  i thought this while posting .some guy is going to raise an issue on 'Seri' ,inciting sentiment value.. I didn't mean to be derogatory to any community/ group.
  
  It is quite likely IMHO, that seri guy is likely to listen to 'Podhuvaga yen manasu,velai illadhavan dhan, adhanda idhanda, rather than a 'Pal irukkum' or 'vaan nila' or 'Illamai yennum'..
  
  Though i have not lived in a cheri , i have stayed very closeby and have observed quite a bit.. so it is not a statment made fr the heck of it..
  
  I don't mean to be offensive to them.But their taste , i don't stand by it.
  Hope u get what i mean.
  
  . Anyway this is not an issue at all as far as the thread goes..let us get to the topic
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.254) on: Mon Jan 7 17:38:57 EST 2002
  
  rasigan,
  
  Digression:
  
  "It is quite likely IMHO, that seri guy is likely to listen to 'Podhuvaga yen manasu,velai illadhavan dhan, adhanda idhanda, rather than a 'Pal irukkum' or 'vaan nila' or 'Illamai yennum'.."
  
  I think that's a misconception.Could you explain why they wouldn't like melodies like 'Pal irukkum'?I have come across people living in "quiet humble surroundings" who consider this
  as their romantic favorite song.If you want to feel superior, that's fine but not at the expense of people who may not get a chance to develop a broader outlook of things by way of education etc.
  
  "I didn't mean to be derogatory to any community/ group."
  
  Are you sure of that?
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Mon Jan 7 18:40:33 EST 2002
  
  //"taskes akin to "CHERIS" of chennai. "//
  
  kiru,
  
  was it u who objected when i used the same word ! :-)
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Mon Jan 7 18:49:55 EST 2002
  
  rasigan,
  
  "konjam nilavu" is a wonderful song. My # 1 song fo the last decade. If you cant listen to the lyrics its not the MD's fault. The lyrics were good and words clear.
  
  I hate hindi music because it contains only the voice dominating with music all as a fuzzy background. makes it a waste for me to have a good music system! I hate tose kind of songs... which is why i welcomed ARR's approach.
  
  there needs to be an optimal importance given to voice and music.. ARR rarely transgresses it!if you dont think so ..oh well.. that you opinion
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 207.172.47.96) on: Mon Jan 7 19:00:12 EST 2002
  
  if u r not used to arr songs, andha yelling is like 'eeyam' to the ears.. good mixing though in the song..
  
  why don't we put an end to the "arr is good/bad war" ?
  
  the topic is "TFM is losing its identity" and we shud stick to this
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Mon Jan 7 19:12:00 EST 2002
  
  Bharath..yes..I wish rasigan had avoided the use of that word. BTW, Hindi songs had/have good recording all the time. They are very nice to hear. The one or two IR movies in hindi have fantastic recording. What sort of a system do you have ? if the music is fuzzy your system is not resolving it. You can send me an email if you want to upgrade/put together a good stereo system.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Jan 7 20:23:27 EST 2002
  
  regarding chEri people: i have watched a few movies with them (ranging from pAsamalar to thaLapathi) and i have never felt that "their" tastes were any different from "ours". due to the pretense of sophistication "we" seemed to have developed due to our "education", "we" have "subdued" expression of our reaction. (is this streotyping of "us" valid?)
  
  kiru: adiyEnukkum konjam aruL cheyyaRadhu.
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Mon Jan 7 21:18:31 EST 2002
  
  hihi:). Please leave me out of "us" :).
  "we" have "subdued" expression of our reaction
  ...or lack of spontaneity and so on.............
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Mon Jan 7 23:52:19 EST 2002
  
  Naaz:
  
  if u were so hurt by my posts to you, you could have addressed me directly, not to WHYNOT.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.178) on: Tue Jan 8 04:53:03 EST 2002
  
  Can someone kindly identify (means write down the definition of) what is `Tamil identity'? The discussion can be more meaningful after all agree to the definition:-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.178) on: Tue Jan 8 04:56:03 EST 2002
  
  As a starter, I strongly feel `oruvanukku oruthi' is a concept of Tamils...how much of it is reflected in today's TFM (or for that matter, TFM of 80's, 90's & now) and how much deterioration has happened?
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Tue Jan 8 12:50:14 EST 2002
  
  kiru,
  
  my point is hindu music is abnormally biased towards the vocalist. The beginning music starts with good distribution of sound but once the vocalists comes to play all other sounds are cordoned off to a dim bacground.
  
  and then suddenly the music flares back up. even in good music systems i feel like i am hearing out of the conical speakers near tambaram railways station :-)
  
  i am not attributing this to Anu Malik alone.. its extends to the burmans also. All of them have good songs to their credit but its just a personal opinion/taste that makes me dislike some songs that other people might like.
  
  About IR.
  
  Especially the song "naan theedum sevvanthi poo ithu". The start to the song is amazing almost enthralling.... but once the song begins all the wonderful instruments and music dissappears and the voice blatantly dominates. Among the songs that I really feel IR has shown bias to the vocalists "naan theedum.." is certainly one.
  
  You can see him reduce the vocal domination in "rakamma kaiya.." but the time differencve between the 2 songs is big and maybe better recording techniques were available....
  
  to connect it with the topic. I doont think vocal domination is a tamil identity. It comes from St. Thyagaraja days of carnautic music I suppose.. with vocals and instrumentals almost operating mutually exclusively...
  
  such a scenario i belive is good only for carnautic music and not for film songs...
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Tue Jan 8 12:50:49 EST 2002
  
  please read hindu music and "HINDI" music...
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Tue Jan 8 12:51:02 EST 2002
  
  please read hindu music as "HINDI" music...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Tue Jan 8 15:33:31 EST 2002
  
  Bharath, vocal tradition is part of tamil identity. Carnatic music is also part of tamil identity, even though it was enhanced/developed and flourished during the rule of non-tamil kings but in tamil country. Carnatic music is better done through vocals or with some select intruments like violin. We also have a good instrumental tradition using yAzh and flute (some harmony rules are also specified for them in tholKappiyam). Yes, the hangover (or heritage if +vely put) of this is what is reflected in MSV and IR's music. Vocals first. These MDs also do the tune first. The rhythm/percussion accompaniment takes a back seat when the tune needs to be highlighted.
  I just listened to puththam pudhu kAlai in alaigal Oyvathillai on www.dhool.com contrast this with puththam puddu poo poothathO in thalapathy. The former is more rhythm oriented and the latter is tune heavy. In thalapathy the levels for even tabla is little higher than normal. Actually, you dont need this much if you have a subwoofer/fullrange speaker where you can hear the 'bayan' (bass drum of the tabla twin drums).
  
  (hihi:) send me an email, when you are not working on the sets of BayWatch parttime :) )
  
  

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