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A complete movie - Hey Ram

Topic started by musicfan (@ 12.32.197.131) on Mon Nov 11 20:17:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I discovered Hey Ram all over again a few days back. I believe it should rank as one of those rare "complete movies".It has brilliant music..I mean not the music that is churned out of electronic instruments these days by all MDs(all..includes YSR,VS,HJ and ARR)..Hey Ram is in its own league..with music that makes sense..each song has soo much significance and depth.The synthesis of mantras and carnatic classical with pure melody is a treat.And the background music for this movie is as good as it can really get..The movie has so much of depth(I am a vociferous critic of KamalHassan..and I have appreciated very few of his works- Nayagan, Devar Magan,Sathi Leelavathi..Michael--,Apoorva..are probably those I liked a lot)..but this movie..is a revelation.
If only more directors and music directors got together to create..not just movies..but sheer poetry for the viewer..
I thought Kannathil Muthamittal was an attempt in that direction..although it pales in comparison to Hey Ram..
Are there any others that rank up to Hey Ram ??

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: multinamatheyan (@ 198.73.152.100) on: Tue Nov 12 11:29:02 EST 2002
  
  For those of you wondering what the song 'raamar aanalum' was doing in a period film, you will be happy to know that when the movie was played at the Toronto International Film Festival in Canada, that song was missing. But, all the scenes leading upto and following the song were present.
  
  Hey Ram was a master piece that was way ahead of it's time. It wasn't even comprehended fully by the so called 'vimarsaharhal' in TN.
  
  Kamal was an idiot for making a film like that and expecting it to become a hit.
  
  
  
• From: arun (@ 130.65.147.117) on: Tue Nov 12 12:55:29 EST 2002
  
  the biggest reason i hate watching tamil and indian movies is because they are SO obvious, a three-year-old kid or an idiot could understand them. No thinking is required. All plot points are driven in eighteen times to make sure the audience doesn't have to think.
  
  "hey ram" was different. "devar magan" was different. "mahanathi" was different. even "kurudhippunal" was different. those movies required thinking.
  
  especially "hey ram." every line of dialogue is so intricate, so necessary, and everything fits together (yes, even the steamy scenes).
  
  take ANY other tamil movie, and there are about an hour to two of unnecessary scenes.
  
  yeah, "hey ram" expected you all to think.
  
  sorry it did. kamal didn't realize that thinking was a taboo for the indian audience. let's all instead go out and rent "kaho naa pyaar hai" or "thenaali" and take our brains off and have fun!
  
  get a life. "hey ram" is one of the only tamil movies ("devar magan" and "mahanathi" are two others) i'd be proud to show my american friends.
  
  if i showed them the SUPER-HIT crap "thenaali," kollywood pakkam thalai vacchae padukka maattaanunga.
  
  
• From: karthik (@ 192.147.58.6) on: Tue Nov 12 13:05:08 EST 2002
  
  well said arun
  
  
• From: multinamatheyan (@ 198.73.152.100) on: Tue Nov 12 13:51:44 EST 2002
  
  I couldn't have said it better Arun.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.50.7) on: Tue Nov 12 18:36:46 EST 2002
  
  I was reading 'paal nila padhayil'-IR has this to say about the song isaiyil thodangudhamma-apparently,he was presented with the sequence of scenes for BGM-he went thru the scenes and found they were perfect for a song and so composed Isaiyil-and look how well the song goes-almost as if the song was done first and not the other way around(like das das..)
  And incidentally, hey ram is mentioned in limca book of records for IR's feat of synchronising his songs to those done by LS.
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.25.156) on: Tue Nov 12 19:39:54 EST 2002
  
  Hey Ram nalla padamnu neraiya per solRaanga...eppo thamizh-la varumnu sollunga...engaLukkum paakka aasaiyaa irukku:-)
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 64.129.181.69) on: Tue Nov 12 19:51:47 EST 2002
  
  ha ha ha.... Ram, well put :-)..... too many languages, and also, Kamal trying to use the same voice's while shooting the film (and not dubbing).... i feel, the movie lacked a good screen play.... Arun - what was the "thinking" that WE should have done - can you tell pls.... i would really like to know that..... yes, it was a GREAT effort - i have read many articles, on how much kamal had taken pain to bring back things that had happened as exactly.....
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Nov 13 00:20:29 EST 2002
  
  Ram
  
  That was close to vikatan s remark on the Mahendran film "Nandu"(Crab) a Sivasankari story.
  
  (Innum 2 Hindi vasanam irunthirunthal Padathudaya Tamil urimayai Balaji Vangi iruppar!)
  
  Sharukh Khan dialogues should have been retained in Hindi with regional language subtitles.That would have brought in more authenticity(Considering that Kamal did not make this movie for the Vijaykanth audience).What irritates you is the Sowcarpet Tamil and that is a clear indication of a compromise on commercial grounds.When Moses speaks English in 10 Com you don t feel it odd;not just because it is an hollywood movie but the team behind had no confusions about the end audience.Kellogs i "Keppai Kuzh" endru vilambarapaduthi Kuppambattiyil virkum muyarchi -Kamal seithathu.Virkathathil aacharyam illai.Bali No 1.
  
  Why the "Ramar Aanalum" ( & Many song sequences too) was cut when sent for awards.It was a simple lack of conviction and double standards.That way Amir & co showed enough courage by retaining the songs.
  
  He had wanted to present it to the international audience so he cut the songs;for Hindi audience he made people of Mannragudi and Srirangam speak "aiyayao"Hindi;for Tamil audience he made Sharukh khan & Kallu mama speak Sowcarpet Tamil.This shows his confusion about the end audience which has resulted in the quality of the product.
  
  Going by what Dhanu says in his interview in Kumudam (aalavandhan Azhikkavanthan article) Kamal wanted to sell the rights to Universal audios because the Hey!Ram Audios "Sariyaga pogavaillai".(Can someone get the kumudam link for this).So the songs have not created the desired impact.
  
  Limca book of records ..Lipsynch LS songs.Hey!Ram!
  
  Hello!Mr.Ethirkatchi -supposed to be a boogie woogie song of the 60s and there are no techno beats and the usage of Jazz kit & Piano is pretty evident along with the yodelling.The Narumugaye supposed to be 50s song uses Ghatam,chendai,Jalatharangam,Mridangam.Rehman has not used his "MUST" Bass guitar.
  
  But Ramaranalum ..atleast in the period of 1940-1945.Hmm!
  
  On the similarity to "Freedom at Midnight" - i am with Kamal;when you have to show Mahatmas assassination it becomes a narrative of the real incident(with its FAM version and Gopal Godse version!)and there can be a complaint only if it does not resmeble FAM or GG s version.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Wed Nov 13 03:10:46 EST 2002
  
  Arun
  If all Indian movies were made just so you could feel 'proud' to show your American friends, you would be triggering massive unemployment in the Indian film industry. You are looking for the coffee table book, one that can sit fashionably on the windowsill alongside the cognac and caviar, the Vikatans and Manoramas be damned.
  
  Since when did the 'American' friends become the custodians of good taste? And, Hollywood, the mass conveyor belt of jingoism and hegemony requires you to exercise your grey cells every micro-second of each masterpiece that rolls out? But believe me, India is listening to you. With Dil Chahta Hai, Road and assorted other offerings, the industry is slowly attempting to address the gap for a sanitised, 'chic' and 'educated' Indian cinema that can sit smugly alongside Kurosawa, Spielberg or whoever is the champion of 'your' kind of moviemaking. We're getting there...
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Nov 13 03:38:38 EST 2002
  
  Suresh
  
  PALAAR!PALAAR!Sevutla arajuteenga!
  
  
• From: C~P (@ 202.9.148.160) on: Wed Nov 13 04:12:19 EST 2002
  
  i thot thenaali was an inspiration from some hollywood movie....am i rite??
  
  
• From: Vel (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Wed Nov 13 04:46:24 EST 2002
  
  Suresh,
  
  Man, u shud take up the profession of "writing". Goodness me, you know how to present your points across :-)
  
  Arun has a point however. What he is refering to is "subtle" nuances should convey the message. In most Indian films, you find some character loudly shouting the "message we want to convey is..".
  
  HEY RAM has umpteen scenes where the director KAMAL just gives cues, and the for the impact to be realized, one is forced to watch closely and comprehend the undercurrent of what is being shown on screen. This is what ARUN wanted to convey with his post, i think.
  
  That way, HEY RAM is a top quality movie, no questions. Its a pity it had a few takers. Much damage to the screenplay was done by cinema halls which edited & performed dozen surgeries to the movie, thus leaving the viewer "confused". In fact, when the movie was screened in SUN TV, it had quite a few more scenes towards the end, which were cut in cinema halls.
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 210.193.13.133) on: Wed Nov 13 05:17:50 EST 2002
  
  I'm a die hard ARR fan...
  
  but seriously, all IR-MR combo plus IR-Kamal combo have been my favourites too.....they are just too good...
  
  "nee parthe parvaike oru nandri..." and "Ram..ram..salam hey ram..ram"....bet it couldn't be better......
  
  
• From: Aalavandhan (@ 203.106.188.214) on: Wed Nov 13 06:58:54 EST 2002
  
  >>>>But people like Are Yaar after listening to ARR like composition, expect the same style of music from IR...which is idiotic.
  
  same applies to Aalavandhan too...hmm<<<<<<
  
  
  Karthik, mind your words.
  Do you know what is the meaning of "opinion?"
  Do you know the meaning of "respect?"
  
  Not everyone has the same opinion as you. Are you going to call these people idiots?
  The TFM page has deteriorated today because of people like you.
  
  Why do you need to drag ARR here?
  Don't we have enough of these IR-ARR crap in this forum?
  
  Have some basic decency before you comment on others' postings.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Wed Nov 13 07:06:02 EST 2002
  
  OSIG ,
  1.The fact that audio sales is not good does not reflect the quality ..DOes it mean that films which run for 100 days are good ( rememeber films like ULLA Veliyae ,INDU)...?HEYRAM"s songs are very apt ...And u have never mentioned anything about ILLAYARRAja's BGM which was the main feature of the film !!!!!!
  2.Secondly ,i definetly feel the RAMARAANALUm song should nnot have been cut before sending it to teh festival ..But i doubt if Kamal is responsible for it ..
  3.yes ,RAMARAALANUM songs hould have been more classic ..ILLAYARAAJA could have made it western classic ..!!!!!!But i don't find it disturbing ,unless we have the " NAkeeran " Mind of finding ,only faults
  4."Sharukh Khan dialogues should have been retained in Hindi with regional language subtitles" -200 % TRUE .That is the only irritating thing which i found .Infact when friends from different langauges meet ,tehy speak in ENGLISH or HINDI ,how come in TAMIL????
  5.I don't think Kamal is confused with end audeince .His changes were right .But it is the lanaguage problem which disturbs the expereince of "seeing a movie "..
  
  Wellif u observe carefully ,teh mistakes pointed out are not logicla mistakes ,they are technical .This shows teh greatnes of the MOVIE .Even if we discuss a Maniratnam movie iam sure we will come up with a dozen faults !!!!!
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Wed Nov 13 07:21:46 EST 2002
  
  OISG, Vel... thanks, but I was not contradicting the core of Arun's message. I shudder to be slotted as a torch-bearer for the KS Ravikumar and P Vasu school of film-making, leave alone Rama Narayanan and T Rajendar. But I strongly contest the view of TN or India as a homogenous market, where tastes for and literacy of cinema is uniformly lowbrow (who decides this?). Much as I cringed at the stupidity and crassness(IMO) in 'KAdhal azhivadhillai' (misfortune of sitting in a premiere), I could see some who were obviously finding it their perfect idea of a weekend romp.
  
  We are many markets rolled in one, it's just now that slowly films are being made for niche segments and being accepted at that. The success of films such as 'Bend it like Beckham' or even the multiple 'Amman film factory'(though now waning) is illustrative. But every now and then, you have a Lagaan or an Azhagi that transcend the A,B,C.. stereotypes and appeal to the common denominator. A one-size-fits-all kind of film will not happen too often in this age of multiple entertainment channels.
  
  Deride them, but people like KS Ravikumar and Shankar have an intuitive understanding of what common denominator to address while making a film, but this is why it makes them (generally) as successful in cities as they're in rural pockets. I doubt if they are under any illusion about catering to the informed audience. From a socialist's point of view though, you would hang the likes of KSR without trial for the abject casteism, gender stereotyping, superstition and communalism they promote through the countless Nattamai type films.
  
  On Hey Raam, my (arguable) take is that there is an air of intellectual superiority bordering on sanctimoniousness (much the feeling you get when you watch/read a Kamal interview) that pervades the film; beyond anything else, this fails to establish an emotional connect with the audience. In his attempt at straddling the Adoor and Shankar schools of filmmaking, Kamal sold himself short. IMO it was atleast 60 minutes too long, and no excuse for the shoddy graphics please. There were several bad performances - Hemamalini, Vasundhara, Kamal himself, Vaali, SRK.. - seen against Atul Kulkarni. I found the truly redeeming feature to be the music, though I don't much like 'Ramar..' for all the reasons mentioned and for the way it was filmed. But man, 'Isaiyil Thodanguthamma' and 'Nee Partha' are classics, and the BGM needs to be released for it to be appreciated.
  
  Though it's a near cliche to say that a KaRpagAmbal Mess and Qwiky's can co-exist comfortably in the mind(gut)space of our public, I think the nearer we get to understanding segmentation as the reality in today's media market, the closer we are towards understanding why Gaddar did as well (or even better, in India atleast) as Lagaan.
  
  

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