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HOW TO NAME IT? IT TOOK ME OVER 12 YEARS TO APPRECIATE IT FINALLY!

Topic started by Ilayaraaja For Earth 24 Hours (@ 65.56.133.147) on Mon Apr 29 01:35:32 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Has any of you had this feeling? Initially many things just feel stupid but later than sooner you just see how amazing that something is? In my case, it has happened to me with many a Ilayaraaja song and most particularly with the strange non-filmy album of the Maestro HOW TO NAME IT? Unlike many popular songs that appealed right away and felt stupid later on, How To Name IT suddenly took me by storm. Is it because I began to understand the science of music over the years and I needed that to truly appreciate the wavelength of thought and complexity of the compositions? Or, is it because there is no really great music out there anymore? Or, the film music is take a nowhere to go turn? Whatever said, I think How To Name It is IsaiGnani's answer to Bach's Brandberg's concertos and Vivaldi's Four Seasons put together!!!! All the 10 compositions are truly of a level that took me many years of musical listening to appreciate past Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and of course our own A R Rahman ;--) Now, I have to get hold of Nothing But Wind, cassette of which I gave off to someone because I thought the compositions were just inscrutable. Has any of you felt the same way like people like me have? I did have problems with India 24 Hours too? But, after a couple of years I listened to it again and my joy is unbounded. I heard IR was coming up with Moods of Ilayaraaja? What happened to it? I just can't wait to get hold of all the non-filmy albums of IR including the Symphony? My God, I can now believe the Saappadu IR was talking about. The film music was Appalam and Oorugai! Imagine that! I can't. My head is spinning at the thought of just taking my mind away from How To Name It? for some time to come!!!!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Eswar (@ 63.89.199.3) on: Thu May 2 14:36:15 EDT 2002
  
  To add to ravi's list:
  
  Offenbach - Tales of Hoffman
  
  Tchaikovsky - Swan Lake Waltz
  ? - March of Salves
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.69) on: Thu May 2 19:53:26 EDT 2002
  
  Hari, Kiru:
  
  I enjoyed reading your posts. Thanks for the input.
  
  Both of you are correct in saying that there is room for improvisation in WCM and Carnatic. However, in WCM it does not seem that the improvization can deviate too much and if it does, it would seem that people cannot recognize the original.
  
  My long "longing" has been why there is no written documentation of say Thiyagaraja's compositions in the form of musical notations. I kept thinking after your posts. Is it because it is mostly vocal and how could anyone figure out to notate the vibrations of vocal chords ? It is interesting. Or is it the limitation of voval forms since they vary person to person ? I wonder how Western Opera singers practice the scores. I do not know.
  
  My intent is not to criticize anything, but to point out what seems to me to be a major missing puzzle or quantitative framework in Indian musical forms, be it Carnatic, Hindustani or others.
  
  I have been to Carnatic music concerts and I like the performances. However I have not been able to connect to these deeply at the emotional level. May be I am missing something. Whatever link I could establish with the music was based on the "home" thoughts or nostalgia that comes when you listen to that music. No doubt that these are very entertaining, but my experience has been that these musical forms mostly evoke and bring back the situational ambience of places that I grew up (temple, marriage events, katcheris etc.) and provide you some sort of soothing and comforting effect, which is ofcourse wonderful. Beyond this I find an emptyness and I am not sure what kind of enjoyment the music is supposed to invoke in you. I also do not know how to enjoy or feel beyond those levels. Is there anything beyond this that is supposed to be enjoyed ? I do not know and I would like to find out. Probably it is good idea to listen to a Westerner to see what he felt about it.
  
  However, listening to WCM has been very different and enlightening experience, eventhough I grew up entirely in India. When you listen to Tchaikovsky's "Pathetique" you can almost experience the desperation and end of the world kind of feeling and it was intended to be exactly that. The Nutcracker Suite was intended for Chistmas time jubilation and it is very apt that this played at those times very often. Same with the Moonlight Sonnata. Kiru pointed out four seasons that were written to describe the seasons. You can feel the seasons, especially the summer storms in that piece. Actually this is probably why in tamil movie themes WCM has been extensively used to highlight the situational ambience and mood, be it romantic, perky, lonely, exuberent or outright gloomy.
  
  It would be interesting if someone can compose a form for Deepavali or Pongal or Holi or something in Carnatic or something else and have a "theme" for it ? Why not ? Just a thought !
  
  Anyway these are beside the point. Bye now.
  
  Hari/Kiru: Keep writing and let me know what you think. Thanks.
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.125) on: Thu May 2 20:28:13 EDT 2002
  
  Sam:
  
  Thanks for the article on the others' interpretations of Chopin. Actually the article speaks negatively of interpretation for the sake of demonstration of virtuosity and generate a feeling of aggrandizement. The last sentence of the article very aptly says the reverence that must be attached to the original score:
  
  "To allow the composer to be revealed through the recreation of his music must be the ultimate and continued aim of an interpreter and 'personalised' versions must finally be regarded as the grave disservice they are to the composer and to the public"
  
  One cannot say any better. That was very enlightening article and highlights the importance of writing down the composition by the creator. It is more important to know what was intended rather than what was interpreted.
  
  
• From: observer (@ 144.92.164.199) on: Thu May 2 22:11:53 EDT 2002
  
  ravi: I don't know why you cannot enjoy Carnatic music. As Guitar Prasanna aptly put it in his Raajangahm article, the spiritual depth in Carnatic music is unmatched (in my opinion, even by WCM; however WCM does have a lot to offer of its own). As for notation, I don't know about the other composers but Tyagaraja did not care about the music per se - to him it was a means to a higher end. I think that's the reason why he didn't care to notate his music. I've heard stories of how he used to sing and his students would just remember the music, with nothing written.
  
  As for the scope for improvization, as a listener, I certainly find a lot more difference between Balamurali Krishna and Santhanam singing the same krithi compared to the difference between Neville Marriner and Robert Van Karajan conducting the same symphony.
  
  In this context, isn't it true that the swaras for the pancharatna krithis were set by Tyagaraja himself? Almost all artists singing them do so in almost the same way.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu May 2 22:25:14 EDT 2002
  
  ravi,
  when it comes to setting the mood indian classical music is equal to or greater than WCM IMHO. Please take this as a guesstimate rather than a learned opinion. One of the charaterising feature of a rAgam is the 'mood'. But WCM because of the use of multiple instruments can recreate the whole atmosphere, I think.
  Re: notations. I think in our country we have a strong oral tradition be it music or religious scriptures. Many famous compositions were so well-known that I think people did not need the notations. Also, since we have a good knowledge of the rAgams, I think it is easier to recreate a composition given the lyrics and rAgam, I think. But people like IR have done many compositions in the same rAgam which seemingly sound different to a casual listener's ears. Maybe Hari or Sam can elaborate on this. Ofcourse, vocal singing is also notes, it just so happens to be words. Haven't you heard people singing tha na tha na na to reproduce a tune ? This tha na na was what was used in TN before sa re ga ma pa da ni came in, even though rAgam/pANs were known in TN (Ezisai).
  Re: concerts. I think more than identifying rAgams, I think you should be able to appreciate gamakams, brigas etc. This is the beauty of our music. I am now flipflopping in my fascination for WCM and ICM (yesterday I listened to 'isaiyil thodanguthamma''what a song !! so I am now into ICM for a few days :))
  Re: improvisation. I think it is done in different dimensions in ICM and WCM. In ICM, it is done 'temporally' or linearly . In WCM, it is done 'contemporaneously' or parallely. This is just my amateur opinion. For example, if you take a tune, like Eine Kline NachtMusik, it can be played with different accompanying instruments (harmony). But the very starting word 'isaiyil' in that song can be sung with many variations in ICM.
  Sam or Hari can talk more authoritatively on this.
  
  (In a recent movie, kAthal jAthi, a woman puts to lyrics a tune lead by the flute. The song is kannimari koyililE. Available in www.mmusicindiaonline.com. Notice, initially, the first line, Harini, sings the simple version of the flute notes, later she sings exactly with the variations.)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu May 2 22:52:54 EDT 2002
  
  For the benefit of other readers who also might be curious about ICM and WCM. Please read the following list of articles.
  http://www.aunet.org/ramesh/gentle1.html
  http://www.aunet.org/ramesh/gentle2.html
  http://www.aunet.org/ramesh/gentle3.html
  http://www.aunet.org/ramesh/gentle4.html
  
  And then read -
  http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/alapana.html
  
  
  
  
  
• From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri May 3 01:59:17 EDT 2002
  
  >>For example, if you take a tune, like Eine Kline NachtMusik, it can be played with different accompanying instruments (harmony). <<<
  
  Where id u hear Eine Kleine Nachtmusik? Where could I get a link to it?
  
  
• From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri May 3 01:59:25 EDT 2002
  
  >>For example, if you take a tune, like Eine Kline NachtMusik, it can be played with different accompanying instruments (harmony). <<<
  
  Where did u hear Eine Kleine Nachtmusik? Where could I get a link to it?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.173.10.173) on: Fri May 3 02:37:20 EDT 2002
  
  AVR..it is a popular composition by Mozart. It should be there even in your cell phone !! Otherwise, search amazon.com or the classical midi home page.
  http://www.xstablu.com/people/dianna/midi/eknmusik.mid
  
  Many of the hit classical tunes are also used in kids' toys, because the music is now in the public domain.
  
  

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