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The INVISIBLE and The UNHEARD - What role can Listeners play in re-establishing QUALITY in TFM?

Topic started by Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on Thu Mar 28 10:41:25 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Vanakkam/Namaskar !
This is the first time I am initiating a discussion. In the last year that I have visited this site I have heard many views on the current state of Tamizh and Tamizh Film Music. Moving out of the ARR-IR tugs and pulls, it would be good to hear your comments on the FUTURE of Tamizh/Film Music:
Points to consider:
1. Globalism is a Reality: How has this affected the packaging of TFM?
2. Is blatant imitation of "Western" trends in TF Music a sign of Progress/Evolution?
3. There is a strong sense of discontent among tamizh film music listeners (what I have gleaned from posters here - no definitive survey :-)) with regards to the way Tamizh has been corrupted in the name of "fashion" or "novelty" - Is this trend reversible? Or is this the way of the Future?
4. Masses and Music: The old Chicken and Egg argument: Masses influence the Music/ Music influences the Masses - What is the role of the Tamizh Audience in this? Are criticism and discrenment powerless vis-a-vis the Marketing Machinery?
5. The slow decline in meaning and music - singing/lyrics/refinement - can these be fixed? Or is this undeserving of serious thought/input?
6. How (and where) do you see Tamizh Film Music - five years down the road?

These are some genuine concerns. Please, let us do our best, to make this an engaging discussion. I look foward (no personal blame-games please) your insights and ideas. Do add to the above list of concerns if you find them to be incomplete...

Best to All!

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Responses:

• From: O_IS_G (@ 213.150.174.152) on: Thu Mar 28 11:23:40 EST 2002
  
  Naaz
  
  Your topic demands serious thinking,unbiased analysis,constructive criticism,progressive suggestions and sensible postings (not just rejoinders)by all the genuine TFM lovers.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Thu Mar 28 12:05:13 EST 2002
  
  In a recent interview , SPB expressed his concern over loosing nativity of Telugu songs, because of lot of non telugu singers singing songs. He felt bad that the songs no more sound telugu.
  
  He also expressed that who would listen to him in the movie industry if he try to change. If SPB himself feels that way, I dont know who can change? I think this can be applied to TFM too as both fields are transparent.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Thu Mar 28 13:40:28 EST 2002
  
  Naaz, a good thread. I remember a similar thread that we shared ideas in, but unfortunately...
  
  1 More than globalisation, I would say 'pan-nationalisation' is what is afflicting TFM and indeed, much of regional film music. With increasing outlay in production, movie companies are looking to spread their costs by making allowances for as many dubbing/remake versions as possible.
  
  It's a sort of 'double jeopardy' with a national brand such as ARR; given the production costs of music alone and the potential for flogging the rights in as many languages as possible, it is indeed a brave producer who can resist the lure of the lucre. Even if it doesn't come from the producer, I think ARR keeps the avenues open and produces albums that lose little (relatively) during the crossover from one language to the other. Hence, an 'Alaipayuthe' can make the transition from thamizh to hindi far easily than an 'azhagi' or 'friends' can.
  
  2 "Western" trends - I think IR truly heralded the classical western infusion, but because the intrusion was mostly instrumental and in the background, it didn't quite provoke an adverse reaction. It actually lent a new dimension to TFM. Contrary, the western influence in today's music extends beyond the rhythm and structure of the songs to rendering attributes such as diction and vocal discipline peripheral and non-critical to the success of the song/album. Roop Kumar Rathod's "Venmathi" in 'Minnale' and Udit Narayan's in 'Alli thantha vaanam' are prime examples of .
  
  ARR has been relieved of the burden of blame for this sorry pass by the wholesale adoption of this 'modern' trend by the entire crop of young MDs - HJ, YSR, Vidyasagar... If you thought it couldn't get worser, listen to the new-kid-on-the-block Imaan's (ironic) "Thamizhan". As Nagaas said, the match between the songs in this film and the title must be humor at its supreme.
  
  3 Unfortunately, the newtfmpage demography is hardly representative of the wide thamizh world. There are people, the 'youth' market that most albums are targeting these days, that actually dig the Sadhana's and Udit's :( Looks like this is one fashion that's going to stay in favor like the denim..
  
  4 When you have supposed 'thamizh kaavalar's' turning a blind eye (and making moolah in the process) to such flagrant violation of their mother tongue, I have no hope of a mass-led movement that can force the tide to reverse
  
  5 Decline of lyrics - started years ago, primarily during IR's reign (post-VM split) when all he needed was a 'maane, thene, naane, thanthaane' string to put together a song with some chorus and make a hit out of it, never mind who the lyricist was. It's gotten worser with the advent of the pazhanibharathi's and the shameless market-pandering by 'veterans' vaali and vairamuthu. A few like 'Thamarai' hold a beacon of hope, though...
  
  Singing - again, a maestro who gave us Mano and Arunmozhi when the songs where crying for SPB needs to cop a fair share of blame. Though, to be fair to him, TFM has never had a worser period than now in terms of the quality of singing, when leave alone the hindi imports, even native guys like tippu sing as though they just hopped off from honduras or wherever.
  
  6 five years from now? it seriously depends on the kind of filmmaking that will endure. unless thamizh cinema moves away from this obsession with rootless, urban themes and gets back some of its "mann vaasanai", we're bound to suffer more by music that's targeted at the coffee pubs (not a crime as long as it's a niche).
  
  It will require a dramatic revival of thamizh cinema to bring about a qualitative change in TFM.
  
  All IMO
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Mar 28 14:27:25 EST 2002
  
  Tamizh Music (for the lay person) falls within two categories (based on production & distribution): Film and Devotional. In recent times, say the last decade, this has turned into a rich cousin, poor cousin parallelism. The tamizh "ethos" in language and singing has been relegated to Devotionals, the poor cousin. The rich cousin is, we all know, quite the globe-trotter. Give up a little authenticity, grab a lot of cool. That seems to be trade-off.
  
  But it is also the rub.
  
  Hindi Film Music (to apply your pan-national link) is just as contrived, crass and revolting these days, but it fares a notch better than its tamizh counterpart as the singers are well-versed (most of the time) in the language and its nuances. Here is an interesting example: ARR uses Alka Yagnik's voice when he wants to authenticate a "northern" sensibility - "Taal Se Taal Mila" "O Ri Chori" "Mehki Mehki Hain Nigahaen". Lata, Asha, KS, Sadhana - they also contribute to the Hindi segment. Setting the lyrics aside for the moment, the songs, when sung by these singers, retain a cultural rootedness.
  
  But even if this weren't the case, even if Hindi singing were just as bad as any other, there is viable other avenues for the Hindi Listener: Ghazals, Geets, And Light Classical Albums - which are just as popular, and are often bought by the same demographic that picks up the Film stuff. Tamizh is stuck with the poor cousin, who can only be listened to that much. And no more.
  
  
  Here's what frightens me for Tamizh: Are we looking at a cultural dead end? Are we forever stuck in the geminigeminigavanigavani loop?
  
  
• From: ROTFL (@ 198.232.250.51) on: Thu Mar 28 14:57:14 EST 2002
  
  Come on guys ... I am waiting for that one comment on ARR ... to spoil this thread also.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Thu Mar 28 15:34:12 EST 2002
  
  it is my opinion that tamils in general are in awe of anything exotic and foriegn. Anything western and popular in the outside world is considered savvy.
  
  we have a dedicated group of people who work arduously on importing latest trends outside TN.
  They do such things because the people want it. If non-tamil sounding tamil was unpopular among people it wouldnt have survived.
  
  How did i learn this?
  
  I detested TV presenters.. with thier "kozhanju kozhanju.. konji konji" pesara tamil . There was never a moment when i didnt bitch about these hosts whenever i saw them on TV.
  
  So i asked a friend of mine who was an editor with sun tv.now apprently he works with zee gold. He said thats what the people want. such things fascinate rural youths and girls. such tamil is emulated by many young people. Thats the market feedback and the TV's will persist.
  
  So any producer who gives most of his life savings to ARR or IR or any of the *.R's to compose music.. he better extract the moneys worth of value from the MD. doesnt matter if he thrusts his market feedback on them..
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.157) on: Thu Mar 28 16:21:19 EST 2002
  
  I think the 'Western influence' on TFM is a very welcome development, though the kind of songs that we have been hearing over the last couple of years do not reflect that. The fact that MD's are actually listening to music from all parts of the world and incorporating that into their music,either directly or being influenced by it, is a good thing. I am pretty sure that after a few years music directors will settle for a
  balanced approach and know which kind of music suits a particular kind of situation.
  As far as non-tamil speaking singers killing songs, i think its just a trend. when MD's can no longer understand what their singer is singing, they will use tamil singers. Besides, its just the language, not the music itself.
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.157) on: Thu Mar 28 16:35:27 EST 2002
  
  suresh
  
  just heard a song by Tippu in 'shree'
  kannae mozhi vendam
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Mar 28 17:12:43 EST 2002
  
  Sarat - It would be helpful if you could elaborate on what you mean by a phrase like "besides, its just a language..." I am intrigued by the "just" - could it be anything other than language?? What is language without proper articulation/emphasis?
  
  Bharat: You push the alarm buttons...gently, with that Sun TV example. What sort of Tamizh will the current generation pass on to the forthcoming generations...Especially now that Films have become the barometer of how we see ourselves as "hip" "progressive" and "cool" - all the way from Chennai to ChinnaOoruYengeyo....Shudder.
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Thu Mar 28 17:13:11 EST 2002
  
  great topic, naaz. needs looong posts and good discussions. you have thrown a lot of thing
  s at us. becomes very easy for us to merely throw in our thoughts and not actually partici
  pate in a 2-way, multi-way discussion.
  
  as sarat mentioned, there will be a lot of influences. if you guys remember the shankar-ehsan-loy thread in which ehsan participated, you could have noted their listening preferences ranging from carnatic to jazz to african, latin, carribean music. tfm listeners will be introduced to newer sounds and even participation by foreign artists. I don't know if we can categorize it as healthy because the nativity, the mann-vaasanai gets affected. the hip halloween-celebrating younger tamil generation obviously prefer 'nsync over Pushpavanam Kuppuswamy:) the trend is catching up with even the semi-urban/rural crowd other than the ones in Madras. after all visibility of what is cool and what is not has also increased. the glaring aspect is the slow demise of folk tunes and arts in TFM.
  but as the saying goes "pudhiya pugudhalum, pazhayana kazhidhalum...(i forgot)". so we shouldn't discard this evolution as a negative trend nor as a sign of progress. progress cannot be defined in the context of such a subjective matter as music. it is like defining "superior taste". but you can say that the trend is negative considering its probable annihilation of nativity and homogenisation of cultures. it is very subjective.
  but then, evolution happens, no matter what individual opinions about it are. it is the collective opinion that matters. and that says "go for western culture, dude". It takes an MGR/Rajini/bin laden-like character to change collective opinion. Revolutions cannot happen in a day, not even in 5 years.
  
  

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