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Carnatic songs/ragas in Malayalam movies vs Tamil movies

Topic started by Isai Rasigai (@ columbo.wfd.com) on Fri Aug 13 11:03:38 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi All:

I find that Malayalam movies use pure carnatic ragas more than any other South Indian language movies and it seems to have a very good reception in the Mallu land.. When you hear some of those songs, like the ones in His Highness Abdullah, Bharatham etc, you feel like listening to them over and over again! Why is it that we do find those many songs in Tamil movies? I dont mean to say we do not have any. Is it that the Tamil audience are not receptive to such kind of music or is it that they are not trying it out in the right movies? In movies like Sindhu Bhairavi, a music based subject, IR had used a lot of classical ragas... but mari mari ninne song is originally in Kambodhi and was tuned in Saramathi for this movie? Why is this? Why do we have to change the form and shape of songs in Tamil movies? I am pretty sure a movie like His Highness Abdullah would have been a mojor hit even in the Tamil film industry with the kind of music it had in it... Comments please....

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Responses:

• From: Isai Rasigai (@ columbo.wfd.com) on: Fri Aug 13 11:16:12 EDT 1999
  
  Or may be is it just me that feels this way?! I have always enjoyed some of the beautiful numbers in Tamil movies based on pure classical ragas like (to name a few) thoongadha vizhigal rendu (amrithavarshini), endhan nenjil neengadha (nalinakaanthi), nee oru kaadal sangeetham (Yamuna Kalyani), Narumugaye (gambeera naattai and maand), en veettu thottathil, thathithom vithaigal katrida (dharmavathi) and the list goes on and on and on.. wont it be nice to have atleast one such number in every movie! may be am greedy here!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Fri Aug 13 13:07:39 EDT 1999
  
  Rasigai:
  
  I am an ardent fan of Mallu songs. Your opinion that Mallu is more classical than tamil is well substantiated by the fact that almost all the mallu songs are based in some raga (and sung by KJY :-)). We do not have "Hello doctor" type songs in mallu and hence the situation. If you are interested in comparison, I recommend that you visit my page :
  
  http://members.xoom.com/shatjam
  
  It shelves the all time great hits of KJY. There ae many ragas which are very well explored by the Mallu MDs. But when it comes to rare ragas, probably IR has done an excellent job. For this take a look at Ramaswamy Gireesan's site.
  
  regards
  
  MS
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-90-1.sprint.ca) on: Fri Aug 13 15:30:04 EDT 1999
  
  IsaiRasigai and others
  
  This article might help you with this. Check it out. It's about Malayalam films and carnatic music.
  http://www.carnaticmusic.com/news/Malayalammovies1.html
  
  
• From: Isai Rasigai (@ columbo.wfd.com) on: Fri Aug 13 15:41:20 EDT 1999
  
  Hi MS and aruvi
  
  thanks so much for the info..
  
  I still want to know why Tamil songs are not like some of these Malayalam songs? what is the basic reason? we are not that very different culturally from the Mallus, then why the diff in tastes? any inputs?
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ stagfw.thehartford.com) on: Fri Aug 13 16:40:24 EDT 1999
  
  I know there is enormous amount of scope for creativity in a classical based tune in terms of melody. But, TFM has reached far beyond the thresholds and has generously extended its scope for creativity by adopting some alien standards. MSV and his peers started adopting those alien concepts like counter-points even in their melody based compositions. Raja has given a new dimension to Tamil Film Music, not only by bringing genuine folk tunes to public, but also by succeeding in blending harmony and melody. ARR is a 3G leader in the category, where he experiments with yet another realm of music , "rhythm". I am not sure if one can get this degree of freedom when he will strictly base a tune following the norms posed by classical raagas. TFM has been "open-minded" to be receptive of such experimentations and provides a platform for MDs. I can say that there has been a compromise on the quality of music to some extent, but on an comparative basis (with crap like HFM of 80's and 90's), it is much better. Any such undesirable albums like 'MEM' are treated with brickbats.
  
  
• From: SK (@ panorama2.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Aug 13 18:31:06 EDT 1999
  
  rameshb has expressed some nice views. While doing
  some classical-based songs (and experimentations
  with it) in film music is quite ok, I think it is
  possible to give a variety of light music only if
  there is freedom from the constraints put by
  classical music. MS: when you say almost all the
  mallu songs are based in some raga I don't
  know what you mean. Do you mean to say they are
  based on ragas in the proper classical form, or
  just follow the scale of the raga? If you mean
  the former, I am only sad for MFM. (I know nothing
  about MFM, BTW.)
  
  There was a period (till 1950's) when TFM was,
  in fact dominated by classical music. It
  was Viswanathan-Ramamurthy who broke the shackles
  and started giving light music, concentrating on
  trying to bring out emotions beautifully while
  giving a lot of weight to lyrics. Their success
  would not have been possible if they had stuck
  to classical as the predominant base (like
  GRamanathan did before them). In the beginning
  60's it seems GR was amazed at the changes that
  took place in TFM because of VR's experiments and
  is said to have made the jovial comment..
  ennudaya sangathigaL ellaam inimEl makkaLidam
  edu padaadhu. ivangaLaippOla light music pOttaal
  dhaan pizhaikka mudiyum. GR actually started
  attempts in free light music...dheivaththin
  dheivam is an example.. but unfortunately he
  passed away soon after that.
  
  While IR makes excellent classical contributions
  to MFM and enjoys that, I don't think he would
  be interested in doing that as his full time job!
  He will be the last person to be tied up by
  constraints put by any one form of music. I have
  read some interviews by him and IMHO he has the
  right attitude to music.. anything that is sweet
  to hear .. a bird singing, the sound of a river
  flowing, the humming of a farmer during work..
  is music. Sticking to a particular form of music
  as a base is a wasteful constraint.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.136) on: Sat Aug 14 01:51:45 EDT 1999
  
  While there are great classical songs in some MFs like HHA, majority of the films have no importance for songs (any song, let alone classical) at all! 95% of the songs are monotonous and/or rehash of TFM & HFM, hardly `classically based'!
  
  IMHO, classical or otherwise, MFM is far,far,far behind TFM! (It is interesting to note that often the most popular songs in MFM are by some external talent, like our IR!)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Aug 14 02:29:35 EDT 1999
  
  I have a good reason to refute - Eden and SK. I typed a post and lost it. 'll soon return with it.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ netcache32.mot.com) on: Sat Aug 14 02:48:01 EDT 1999
  
  MS,
  I know u r gonna come up with Bombay ravis and ravindrans ;-)
  
  
• From: ShibuTN (@ pppa22-resalespringfldpa1-2r1093.saturn.bbn.com) on: Sat Aug 14 03:32:30 EDT 1999
  
  Eden,
  You are right. Only 5% (or even less) of songs are good. Main reason was Malayalam Films didnot give importance to songs, they gave importance to story and script.
  It is only recently that Malayalam films started having some songs..
  
  
• From: Mahadevan (@ 202.177.129.130) on: Sat Aug 14 03:41:24 EDT 1999
  
  I do not for how many years people will be harping on HHA and Bharatham for the classical value of Mallu songs. I think we should also continue talking about MKT,Sundarambal, PU Chinnappa era, as the songs were absolutely classical without any deviations and no doubt nobody can equal them in classicism.Eden is right when he says 95% of the mallu songs are repeats and monotonous.
  You can never see blends of classicism with modern arrangement of music (which is IR's forte), withou t compromising on purity of Ragas in Mallu films.It is usually singing of lyrics in Ragas in pure concert style, with the"Bhava" aspect relevant to the situation in the film being totally absent.
  After all, film music is mostly for the masses and should also be relevant to the story line of the film. You cannot every film to be a concert where the MD's classical music repertoire is demonstrated.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sat Aug 14 04:36:54 EDT 1999
  
  it's unfortunate that most TFM fans can't see beyond HHA, Bharatham and Sargam as far as MFM is concerned. i have rarely come across people talking about Johnson, whose genius is sadly unknown outside his land, ouseppachchan, jerry amaldev, or stalwarts of the 60s and 70s like devarajan, dakshinamoorthy, and of course, salil choudhury. talking ofd salil, how many have heard his music other than Chemmeen? with just a passing acquaintance with MFM, it's unfair to make sweeping statements like its all as monotonous or classical-based. and what exactly is meant by classical-based? so many of IR's superhits are based on some raga or the other, do they all sound like concert recitals? the same thing applies to MFM. many, why most songs, have some carnatic connection but are as light as light music can get.
  
  and isai rasigai, i think u are quite mistaken in assuming that tamils and mallus are culturally not very different. in fact they are as different as raja and rehman (evvalavu naal chalk-and-cheese analogy:-))) of course, both share a lot but the differences are too overwhelming. athukku oru separate thread thEvai.
  
  
• From: Kamesh (@ hlr-13-107.tm.net.my) on: Sat Aug 14 04:42:07 EDT 1999
  
  Cram
  
  Idhukku poi separate threadda? Indha threadaiyae evvalavu pikka mudiyumo pichiduvomae :-)
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sat Aug 14 08:40:50 EDT 1999
  
  athu sari,
  pikkarathunna avvalavu aasai, illa?:-)))))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Aug 14 14:34:02 EDT 1999
  
  Shankar:
  
  Good guess.
  
  I happen to be an admirer of mallu songs for their innate softness. The natural flair of mallu MDs for holding the classicism intact, IMO, has not allowed them to digress from the traditional ways of composing. This is one of the reasons for the lack of orchestration in their songs (exempting Ravindran).
  
  In the article that aruvi had a link to, the author observes:
  
  "Illayaraja can employ Hari Kambodhi in such a way that only a Balamurali Krishna can recognise it. A.R.Rahman can churn out foot-tapping hits in Dharmavathi without his dancing fans getting a whiff of theunderlying classicism"
  
  This is what is not experimented by mallu MDs. While there are songs from MSV/IR/ARR for every mood, the mallu songs are set in a soft overtone, to be heard by those who are pacific.
  
  As Cram had noted, we are like those northies who do not appreciate TFM because they "think" it is not good. Approaching an art form, with a biased view will only aggravate mal-appreciation and prejudiced views. A lot of mallu songs need be heard for forming an overall opinion about mallu film music. Most of them are soft, pleasing and based on a classical structure. Whether they are monotonous or not is subjective, but IMO they are not.
  
  One of the probable reasons why the mallu MDs are compelled to score soft songs is KJY's untiring voice. Not only KJY, other singers like JC, MGS,Sudeep kumar, Biju Narayan etc.. all have bassy voices suitable for slow numbers and the mallu audience are addicted to such voices. What is monotony for some is regularity for the others. KJY's voice has had a spell over the mallu audience for decades. They had been accustomed to such music and will be uncomfortable if they are presented with "Hello doctor". This is probably why there is not much of a difference between the styles of the mallu MDs (save ravindran once again). But that is not the case in TFM. We can easily recognize the styles of MSV/IR/ARR.
  
  My point is simple: IMO, a regular mallu song is definitely a lot better in structure and composition than tamil/hindi/telegu (applied to the present music era). You may not love it, but you can't hate it. but this is not the case with the albums like MEM or others in the same line.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sat Aug 14 15:00:02 EDT 1999
  
  An addendum to my previous post:
  
  It is sheer creativity which will differentiate songs in the same raga. Bombay Ravi (shankar, due respects to your comments :-)) is one composer who has proved time and again that he can produce tunes with a great appeal and variety. I found, he is very much interested in "mohanam". To provide you with apt examples, I have given some links below. TO me every song appeals equally.
  
  (1) Manjal prasaadavum - a song which got chithra a national award
  
  http://members.xoom.com/shatjam/hear%20mallu%20pattu/panchagni/manjalprasadavum.ram
  
  (2) aareyum bhaava - lilting number by KJY
  
  http://members.xoom.com/shatjam/hear%20mallu%20pattu/panchagni/aareyumbava.ram
  
  (3) neeraaduvaan - a great number by KJY
  
  http://members.xoom.com/shatjam/hear%20mallu%20pattu/panchagni/neeraduvan.ram
  
  It must be surprising to know that all these songs are in the same film (Nakhakshathangal). If only anybody stops to listen to them, he/she will appreciate the effort.
  
  regards
  
  MS
  
  

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