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ARR's song making style

Topic started by kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on Tue Oct 3 18:56:17 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd appreciate if knowledgeable people can contribute to this thread, hopefully explaining musical techniques in a form that everybody can understand

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Responses:

• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Oct 3 19:00:08 EDT 2000
  
  The thread on 'TFM in a state of degeneration' prompted me to think about the contribution of ARR to TFM. I am trying to understand how he is different from others. Well..I understand the part about him not using the four-part arrangement and all. Looks like building a song around a rhythm/drum loop is not something new. I am probably missing something ...Please fill in.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Tue Oct 3 23:03:13 EDT 2000
  
  
  Is it possible for u to post a brief note on what is four-part arrangement? Or cud u give links to where that info might be available? Thanks
  
  hari
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Oct 4 10:20:53 EDT 2000
  
  I think the four part arrangment refers to the Western classical way of conducting an orchestra -strings(violin,viola, cello), woodwind (clarinet, oboe etc), brass (trumpet, horns..) and drums. Obviously, ARR does not go by this orthodox style. He is into POP/World music. He himself explained his way composing, in an interview, as - coming up with a rhythm, then composing a melody appropriate to it. A good example would, Anbe Anbe in Jeans. This rhythm is basically the same as in a track in Peter Gabriel's The Last temptation of christ. ARR does not follow this all the time but his hit rate with this higher than when he composes the conventional way (check out vandichOlai chinnarasu and other not so hit movies).
  
  I am just trying to see if other people can explain these things better than me.
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ 192.11.221.102) on: Wed Oct 4 11:18:23 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru,
  I think ARR uses the mordern(?) style of composing, where he decides on a scale or ragam and then comes up with a rough melody after a series of permutation and combination. Once he gets the base melody, he start embellishing it with the other paraphernelia's like chorus and rythyms.
  He then gives complete freedom to singers to play around with his base melody and takes the best of their imagination and then goes thru a process of elimination and comes up with the appropriate or most suitable arrangement.
  
  This is in contrast to traditional composing where one writes down each and every detail before a rough take is done. IR for most part writes down melody, harmony and rythym and he does give some freedom to improvize but that is well within limits. In the IR school a composition is a composers thought reflection. In ARR's school its medley of many thoughts.
  Thats why the thoughts are not free flowing in ARR's as they are not spontaneous and lack clarity of expression.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 4 12:51:23 EDT 2000
  
  I had heard from certain people how arr works, I would like to share here.
  
  First he does not write down anything. He does not force himself into a locked up circle.
  
  He comes in hands free; mind not preset, he does not have a clue about the song.
  He then creates a very very rough melody and rough background progressions based on the song situation and other factors given by the production team.
  At times he just has a brief discussions before hand about this base tune (only) to the directors or stops here to discuss with them. Get the lyrics done etc.
  
  Then calls a singer (eg:Srinivas) and ask them to sing the tune directly in the studio, while they are singing he works then and there on back ground scores. Hearing them sing, he gets more ideas on the arrangement. He records each and everything he plays at that point of time. He also records each and every line the singer sings.
  This is where the basic song is created, from this point he adds on more and more until perfection. Later he might use the same track singer as his lead vocals or invite others to sing; once again he sits with them to get the best out of them. He then places the BGMs as layers on the keyboards, then on a later date he calls the musicians and records their tracks for the bgm, here too he makes changes if he comes across anything good, he does not restrict himself with prewritten stuff. That’s why his music is so fresh. In this process he removes many of the keyboard tracks; these are now replaced with natural instruments played by best in the industry. At every sitting he gets is idea spontaneously and goes on embellishing the tracks.
  After the recording is done and if he feels things are complete, and the director agrees, he sits and engineers the song, puts in effects etc. then the sound engineer balance the sound.
  Creates a Master,
  At this point if he finds the output is not what he wanted, he goes to back to this drawing (keyboard) board and starts every thing from scratch. I know some songs where more than 7-8 masters were created.
  
  This goes on and on until he is satisfied, this at times irritates directors and producers, but all this is ill feeling is put to a rest when the cd/tape sales goes up.. Directors forget the wait and appreciate ARR’s hard work that made the song a big success.
  
  Basically each artist have their own individuality, Arr gets that out of them.
  
  Once in an interview Ganesh/Kumaresh (Vijay TV) were taking about Arr, they told he gives the basic notes but he lets them free for the playing style, it seems Arr often tells them only a violin player knows the actual feel for the violin notes. How much ever the composer thinks, the actual artist should be left free to slightly improvise. This way of composing is not a flaw, this is a form of composing does not come to everyone..
  
  
  I like this way of composing, an artist gets more inspiration and ideas when he sees more and more colors. I am saying this by experience. Taking for an example if a singer is asked to sing in a recording, arr insists to gives some reverb on their head phone, when the singer hears his voice with a good reverb, he thinks more and will surely increase the singers capability. I have seen this my recordings too. Any singer will vouch for me here. Believe it or not this applies to any musician. For Indian form of music if we sit with a instrument and compose we might by chance touch some notes that might give a song a fresh look.
  
  As far as Indian music is concerned which has more glides and twists, in long run, writing the score and sticking strictly on to it will surely restrict medley of thoughts. This will also turn a score to an algorithmic composition. MD’s ideas just go around in a circle. Music never grows, finally gets rejected. In spite of these restrictions we have seen IR doing well in this form of music but as days goes everything changes, music composing has also changed a lot, what arr adopts is best for him because he is able to retain his place on the top for 10 years now.
  
  
  
  BTW: Four parts, Smiii (kandukonen kandukonen) song has a four-part vocal harmony arrangement.
  
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Oct 4 13:02:36 EDT 2000
  
  That was good ..Anand and Srikanth. Now that we have talked about how the song is made. Tell us more about the structure of ARR's songs compared to other MDs.
  
  
• From: SRK (@ 144.92.44.76) on: Wed Oct 4 13:39:40 EDT 2000
  
  I disagree that writing notes eventually erodes the quality of work.
  
  When Beethoven wrote his 9th symphony, he was almost totally deaf. Yet, it is considered his best by many. He didn't need output from performers to produce such a magnificent composition. In fact, his 9th was one of his last but his music did not go round in cycles.
  
  Similarly Mozart's 40th and 41st symphonies are very popular. He used to write notes - no going round in cycles again.
  
  I believe that if a person is musically mature, he/she should be able to visualize music without aid of any external sources. This is hard - most people are limited in their vision. Hence they need feedback from outside.
  
  I believe that IR has been able to sustain for so long because of this maturity. Of course, you do see the limits of his maturity often when he produces run-of-the-mill songs with predictable arrangements again and again.
  
  I don't mean to deride ARR's composing style. One's creativity can be high irrespective of these things.
  
  My only disagreement is with the point fan made.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Wed Oct 4 13:40:00 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  
  Great posting. However I have one crib.
  
  Now, I believe that the song situation needs to be captured once and for all. I find it difficult to see Arr maintaining the mood of the song perfectly, as he goes thru the process of creating it over days. This is what I have felt throughout... that a lot of Arr's songs lack the consistent mood content - its not one idea conveyed from I Bgm, to Last Pallavi. Because he is embellishing it over a period of time, there is no consistent emotion... so the song sometimes loses the punch that it started out with, and starts wandering somewhere in the middle.
  
  Eg- (IMHO) Snehidhanae - Pallavi conveys the romantic mood... The sounds are very good throughout the song...but the starting line of the charanam kills the whole song.
  
  I think it is the problem of "trying too hard" ... that is, he does a bit too much in songs which dont need such embellishments. Dont u feel that some situations demand very simple ornamentation as compared to others.. I dont think he gets the balance right always.
  
  I have always felt is that he relies too much on the "surprise element" and compromises on structure. Eg. is "Sandhana Thendralai" from KK. In the second interlude (when Ajith is dancing with the hoop in the Egyptian Sahara...) there is a nice violin burst which starts out, comes "THRICE"... and logically when u expect it to go its natural next melody... it stops (!) and ends stupidly (IMO) and then charanam starts. I was very disappointed by this. I think it was a gimmick... just like the abrupt scale changes hes been doing so very often these days - Humma Humma, Vande Mataram, Smaiyee.. all unnecessary, and spoiling the mood (IMO).
  
  hari
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 4 13:46:04 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru,
  IMHO:
  Arr's structure is near to perfect, somewhat totally complete in all sense. In spite of many Mds using the similar instruments and recording consoles, we can easily tell this is "arr" song by hearing it. He works really hard, for example a simple dolak sounds great in Arr song, , (Muthalval:Kuruthu sivakaiyelle), How ?
  
  #1, it is crystal clear, notes placed are well thought out., and the chords are unconventional and simple. Music is not always bgm and big arrangements,
  The score is arranged in a way that sounds with same note don’t overlaps one and another, this give more clarity to the instrument. The sounds arr picks for his score are so new, he is a pioneer in getting sounds to Indian film music. He also creates prefect score for that sound he picked.
  Of course in the name of improvisation he uses the musicians a little bit more and incorporates their idea into the song, but never fails to them a credit when the cd comes out. Major complaints are he often uses non-Tamil singers, but he is quick learner, he never used Udit after the kuluvalele attempt failed badly. He takes things from the public very quickly.
  
  But overall I am also one among the millions of fans out there who like arr
  
  Finally, I look for fresh ideas in music, when most don’t, as of date arr caters to my need.
  
  
  
  Hari, I agree with you to an extent, he is trying too hard to give something new.
  but director can always reject if at all they dont want to waste more time :)
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 4 13:51:24 EDT 2000
  
  SRk,
  Writing music is the best for western classical music. No arguments on that,
  
  Not for indian music, we depend on ragas, gamakas, brigas etc. We cannot think a gamakam, we need to sing a gamakam.
  
  Ir tried hard and gave some of the above features by writing music, that is his beauty, but in long run things would not work, if this is adopted for indian form of music, it becomes more like
  an algorithm.
  
  

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