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TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs

Topic started by UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on Sun Feb 3 14:58:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Here we will discuss constructively about the various trends in compsoing,recording techniqs,methods that existed,adopted,tried and being introduced by all our MDS with major focus IR nd ARR followed by others.
Hopefully those who read the postings will get an idea about Music making and thats its an art of the highest creativity of human mind.
And not mere digital gadgetry or synth music

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Responses:

• From: Srikanth (@ 138.88.107.150) on: Sun Feb 3 14:58:59 EST 2002
  
  Most people have misunderstood arr, they assume he is just bangs a drum groove with some "samples" and churns a song, i am sorry,
  this is not the case, if you have observed his tracks properly, arr music structure or elements in his arrangement can be technically split like this :
  
  1. Foundation : bass, drums or an acousitic or guitar or keys also. at time bass plays it own structure from the foundation.
  2. Pad : often a synth sound (usually it is an organ (hammond) or a rhodes (fender) sounds in western music), arr uses string pads with some good creative reverb.
  
  3. Rhythm : It is any instrument that plays counter to the foundation , a tambourine, claps, shaker, a rhythm guitar strumming , this adds motion and excitment to the track. Infact he uses ("backing") vocals to do this also.
  
  4.Lead tune (the song in tamil film music)
  
  5. Fills: This occurs in between lines, something like "answers" to the lead, this is mostly chorus or keys or guitar.
  
  
  sam, yes! in "Samba samba" that was pure Bilahari piece, Prasanna converted it to a niche rock work. Amazing musical part.
  
  and Kiru,
  IR composes the tune, then adds the orchestration
  - IMO, it is often other way around.
  
  
• From: uv (@ 138.88.107.150) on: Sun Feb 3 15:01:11 EST 2002
  
  presentation is really important as important as the song itself
  we should be happy to use these techincs to enhance the sound ofcourse it doesnt matter if you use analog acoustic instrumetns or synth but MD and sound engineer should have a excellent understandng and come out with good stuff.
  Mixing wise ARR leads the way followed by newcomers like YSR,HJ.
  ARR has done some remarkable process on sound presentation
  may be one you have give more inputs on this
  IR used 24 stereo tracks during those days esp in the movie Priya
  but the present ones i dont know
  to my ears they seem to lacking or missing something somehow the balance or feels doesnt seem to be there
  But I wish someone comes up with all his work in digital format esp those 80songs
  -posted by uv
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 138.88.107.150) on: Sun Feb 3 15:02:01 EST 2002
  
  I want to share some of my thoughts on sound quality. We know ARR and IR are different. They are very different in many aspects, including presentation style. IR composes the tune, then adds the orchestration. IR's focus is the melody. I think he probably has a rAgam in mind and most times never strays out of the rAgam for that song. This is a very classical approach to making songs. ARR tries to find a good rhythm for the situation then comes up with a melody (just like many rock/pop music bands ).
  Since for IR, the tune is the focus, he wants to highlight this in the recording. So the vocals are in the foreground and all instruments are behind it and have lesser levels.
  For ARR, the rhythm is important, he highlights this by recording the percussion/bass/bells etc very upclose (reverb). The vocals have always have much higher reverb, than say, any IRs song. He has very nice equipment. Sometimes the 'space' around the vocals itself provides a 'nice touch' to the song.
  The recording style of ARR is the one used by POP musicians around the world. It comes out pretty good even on consumer stereo equipment. This is the reason for peoples preference for ARR's style of recording.
  IR's recording quality has been inconsistent. But there are quite a number of good recordings than what the common perception is. These good recordings are not recognised as good recordings because of the 'ambient' presentation of the instruments (for eg. the kick drum may not be as hard as you would want)
  Inspite of the phenomenal success of ARR, IR has stuck to his guns. Only recently, I have seen some recordings which are more 'flatter' than his original style (kAsi, kAthal jAthi..check these out they are very good ..recording and music wise as well) But YSR, has been recording in the same style as ARR for a long time. The equipment, he uses may not be as good as ARR, but it is very comparable. He often records (I think just mixes) in London.
  
  I once tried very hard to locate the master tapes of old IR songs, but Oriental Records only has their own crappy digital masters. The impression, I got was, the masters may not be around in good quality in the studios, if at all we were able to locate them.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 138.88.107.150) on: Sun Feb 3 15:03:07 EST 2002
  
  and as far ARR recording goes, his frequency range and Equalizing is much superior than anyone.
  
  Though 95% of music studios in tfm use more or less same gadget, (I heard Mani sharma has built a state of the art studio in Hyderabad)
  The cooks touch is important, The basic elements of frequency range...are SUB-Bass, Bass, Low Mids, HighMids, Presence and Brillaince
  often Arr songs are done well in these ranges.
  He controlles them so well.
  
  Brilliance: This is about 6KHZ to 16khz, sounds is very clear at this range, however, we can hear some sibilance in vocal track. some might not like it, i like it.
  
  Presence: (4kh-6khz) Boosting this will make sound close to the listener. If you hear properly, arrs sounds/music are very close to the listener.
  
  Bass :The musical width can be defined by this, again Arr controls this well, he makes the track to be thin or thick by controling this range perfectly.
  
  I found these things after hearing 1000hrs of arr work nonstop just to identify/learn his recording Receipe, I also seeked few pro-sound guys whom I know, to help me, just to know it better and make sure I am correct.
  
  still if I try this combo...mmmmm I need to learn more.:)
  
  Ipidi irukache,how can we say he is going out of business ?
  (the above line is to stay on topic:)
  
  
  earlier posted by Srikanth
  
  
• From: UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on: Sun Feb 3 15:05:22 EST 2002
  
  Guys I have tried put the various thoughts and information shared by others on a different topic here.
  So those who missed these earlier can read.
  And now guys you can continue to discuss these issues here
  
  thanks again
  poduma whynot ?
  UV
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.86.128) on: Sun Feb 3 17:07:10 EST 2002
  
  Mr Observer maintained that in certain rAgam based songs of IR, the tune flow had been tampered with to make it 'go' with the chord. I agree there is some opinion like this. Also, I am told IR wants the singers to sing exactly because he does not want their improvisation to interfere with the chords. So I am told, that even gamakams are written down.
  
  (Sam and UV, Re: the Eagles song, I also noticed the crowd taking a while to identify the song. Even in a U2 concert, the crowd goes crazy when they recognise the beginning of the hits. Yes, I am a fan of classic rock. But I think the heydays of rock is over and also after I got married I am not following this genre that much :) )
  
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Sun Feb 3 17:49:51 EST 2002
  
  Just trying to substantiate Srikanth's post, I stand open for correction/improvement.
  
  Let us take the song Kannalane from Bombay,
  1. "Foundation : bass, drums or an acousitic or guitar or keys also. at time bass plays it own structure from the foundation"
  This song is in minor scale, and the opening chord progression for the first two lines goes somewhat like this --> Am, E, F, Am ( if we play it in A minor scale), and the bass guitar follows the chord progression (bass plays it own structure form the foundation). Theres a nice acoustic guitar picking that starts when Chitra comes back to the first lines in the pallavi.
  
  2."Pad : often a synth sound (usually it is an organ (hammond) or a rhodes (fender) sounds in western music), arr uses string pads with some good creative reverb."
  Listen to the sound in which chords are played when Chitra sings the kannalane part. This is clearer when chitra sings for the last time (after the second pallavi).
  
  3."Rhythm : It is any instrument that plays counter to the foundation , a tambourine, claps, shaker, a rhythm guitar strumming , this adds motion and excitment to the track. Infact he uses ("backing") vocals to do this also."
  This song makes good use of claps, tambourine, tabla and acoustic guitar. Whoever said rahman is not good at using tabla shud listen to the pallavis in this song and mudhalvane song. The first interlude in kannalane features a good combination of tabla and the bass guitar. Also if u observe the kannalane part after the first pallavi, u hear the acoustic playing chords in the country style, this gave a nice momentum to the song in the absence of tabla at this part. Another example of innovative strumming on guitar for rhythm is the second pallavi in the Injirango song in Tenali, listen to the strumming for the first two lines in that second pallavi sung by chitra.
  And in the opening chorus, listen how the base voices give timing to the tune. Some voices keep singing the lines Gum sum gum sum gupu chuku right from the beginning (even though some others sing some other lines)and into the first few lines of the charanam. Two other good example of backing vocals giving rhythm are Raasathi En usuru (esp in the pallavis), and Smayiyay (charanam) where a base voice gives the rhythm.
  
  
  5. Fills: This occurs in between lines, something like "answers" to the lead, this is mostly chorus or keys or guitar.
  
  AGain in Kannalane, listen to what harmonium does when Rahman finishes his singing in the first interlude. And when Chitra sings the kannalane for the last time after the second pallavi, the guitar starts giving in the fill ins. Another good example for fill ins would be the guitar part in the second pallavi of "Kannai Katti" from Iruvar.
  
  
  (Kiru, I am also a great fan of the classic rock, late 80s like GNR, Def Leppard, so on. But GNR is my fave, still.
  UV are u talking about the VH1 behind the scene program on Sting? I too watched it.)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.86.128) on: Sun Feb 3 22:58:43 EST 2002
  
  Sam, I dont think classic rock includes the 80s :) Sorry :)
  Anyways, kannalane is one of the songs of ARR that I like. I dont want to open the hornets nest, but isn't ARR the first MD to use loops ?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Feb 3 23:18:24 EST 2002
  
  Is there any variation (in terms of the emphasis/techniques) in the hindi version "Kehna Hi Kya"? Or is that sync-perfect?
  I just hear both the versions today - and it seems that the Hindi version has bit more of emphasis on the "qa'waali" sections...Is this just an auditory illusion?
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.202.17) on: Mon Feb 4 09:29:42 EST 2002
  
  Hi Guys
  thanks for posting here.
  Did you anyone of you notice the miss in beat in the song 'Endhan nengil' I mean after the pallavi when the first interlude starts
  
  Kiru I have a huge collection of classic rock ,i mean rock ballads eagles,chicago,deff lepoard,pink floyd ,Queen,Scorpion and the list goes on
  
  

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