Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

dhooL.com

Topic started by bb (@ 24.4.254.104) on Tue Feb 20 03:21:22 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi! We've made a major addition to newtfmpage, and that is a big song bank. Dhool features thousands of songs for your listening pleasure. This site is a part of the newtfmpage.com - swara.com group. Together with newtfmpage, we wish to make this the best place to listen to tamil film songs online and know about tamil film music. Our collection includes old, new, famous, rare and unheard of songs. We are still fine tuning and fixing the database errors, so please bear with us. We value your feedback, and this will help us build the site better. Please post your comments below or mail to comments@newtfmpage.com.
This work was done by us (bb and RR) with MS and swara.com ravi.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Sat Jun 14 03:26:22 EDT 2003
  
  Vengayam -
  
  Where else can I discuss a tamizh novel that at least three other people might have read in these parts?
  I'd say its more suspicion than angst that makes me love and loathe JK simultaneously.
  I agree that nobody sets out to wrtie a masterpiece. They write what they believe in, and hopefully they write it well so that it stands the test of time. But I did indicate this in the "To be considered" clause that preceded my criteria.
  
  Yes, rapists can be ordinary and uncliched. But as metaphors of "power" they are all the same.
  
  Saravanan -
  
  Polite it good. Participation is gooder :-)
  
  Thanks for the author/character name. What was Srikanth's name in the novel? Any definitive answers anyone?
  
  -------------------------
  
  But - the last word(s) on the Author/Nagesh character: Is social/economic powerlessness of a man equal to the physical/sexual powerlessness (as in rape) of a woman? This conflation of disparate and gender-exclusive “experiences” is the first politically dubious gloss in the novel. Is the author apologetic for his kind? The ending would suggest the exact opposite.
  
  “Srikanth” the “Rapist”: What was he doing there on that rainy night? Was this his regular cruising hour? Were there others? Or was it just impulse? The novel does not get into this. But the trappings of status and power are revealed with time: Upper middle-class, financially secure, wife and two (?) children, spacious house, car. Could the rape be his last hurrah before mid-life crisis? Or a final assertion of brutish power before the dive into self-pity and aimlessness? Agreeing to meet Ganga, to him, is both curiosity and a belated need for closure. He is depicted as being remorseful, but dull all the same. His life has plateaued. He is a spent force.
  
  YGP/Mama: No less predatory, and just as pathetic, this uncle from urbania is another gale that blown and gone a long time ago. He is a Widower (?), professorial, considerate, and an opportunist. He is closer to a stereotype than the other two.
  
  What do these men have in common: Ganga.
  What do they have in common with each other?
  They are all takers – in their own way: The rapist violates/robs her honour/sex, the writer watches and steals her story, the uncle exploits her circumstantial (in the aftermath) helplessness/vulnerability.
  
  All three are visibly unattractive, over forty-five and represent three “class” groups: lower, middle and upper.
  
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Sat Jun 14 06:00:38 EDT 2003
  
  The author's character is just a convenient peg to hang the story on.I feel it is nothing more and nothing less. JK probably would not have meant the character to be a taker/exploiter. He is just an observer.
  The "rapist" is an interesting one. Your line of thought is interesting. "was it his regular cruising hour?" We do not know and may be it is immaterial. But in light of the subsequent events we may come to the conclusion that he was not a stalker. he probably meant to drop her home and had second thoughts. Or probably it had to do with the rain( he might have seen Aradhana and returned for all we know!) On a very base level he probably did what was at the moment very natural thing to do-sate his desire.
  This very incident may have marked the beginning of the end.
  The third of the trio is the most common creature which we are all too familiar with a lecherous relative waiting for opportunity. probably his is the lowest in terms of behaviour.
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 24.44.133.72) on: Sat Jun 14 07:50:06 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz & Vengayam:
  
  Excellent write-ups. One thing is clear - I need to watch this movie again :-)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Sat Jun 14 09:45:51 EDT 2003
  
  Vengayam -
  
  Thanks for your thoughts.
  To say that the "author" in SNSM is a merely a "convenient peg" and "just an observer" is like saying that the Whale in Moby Duck (the censors know the prohibited words!!) is just a whale, or a convenient segueway for a high-seas adventure.
  The formal function of the "author" character might be that of a "chornicler of truth" from the sidelines, but then the character would have to both uninvolved and objective. The Sharma (I hear a trace of the word "sharam" - don't know why) character is an active player in the story. He is a taker in two significant ways (in my reading): One is the nature of the "experience" he makes his own: A man can sympathise or empathise with a rape victim. But can he actually comprehend - psychologically - what it might FEEL like to be violated sexually?
  And then there is the ending of the short-story he writes - Agni Pravesam (Trial by Fire). If one takes the Ramayana allusion a step further: Sita is "alleged" to have been "unfaithful" in thought during her Sri Lanka captivity. The whole event of walking through fire is a male test for her "purity" If she is she will come through without third degree. Otherwise, she will burn. Ganga, on the other hand, knows she has been violated. Now, the author/sharma' s chosen ending for his short-story: What are we to make of it? A demonstration of imaginative magnanimity? An allegory of how the poor and victimsed can still be "pure" if they could only will it? Or a battling of systemic (patriarchal) abuse with a personal and philosophical sense of vindication?
  Finally, does the ending of Agni Pravesam absolve Ganga or the Man, or both, from their fall from grace? Is Agni Pravesam, the pouring of a lota of water by the mother down her daughter's body, an act of purification or another gesture of silencing? The Author/Sharma is presented as the "conscience" of the novel. He is both commentator and conductor, purveyor and participant. He is not a peg, but an anchor.
  
  To qualify rape as a "very natural thing to do" is to fixate on physical release and ignore the politics of "power." We must ask this - first and foremost: How does a man assume he can get away with it?
  
  raja m - thanks! But please ramble and rumble with your own take.
  
  I will turn to the three women in my next post.
  
  
• From: Eachukutti Appachellam (@ 66.188.104.53) on: Sat Jun 14 09:51:46 EDT 2003
  
  Lullabies please....
  
  Neelavanna kanna vaadaa...
  
  
• From: PVM (@ 68.100.255.127) on: Sat Jun 14 10:23:02 EDT 2003
  
  Can somebody give details about the song "thIrththakkaraithanilE shenbagappushpangaLE"? I think it is sung by KJJ and the movie name is "thaippongal". Can somebody please confirm and give more details? Who is the MD?
  
  Excuse me if I post this in wrong forum!
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 195.229.241.228) on: Sat Jun 14 12:01:16 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz- I am reading today’s posts again and again trying to assimilate your thoughts and reactions (vengayam & raja m). I am trying to recollect the film as well, and Srikanth’s role in particular. ( SNSM, followed by ONNP and Karunai Ullam remain the high points of his long career, Ethir Neechal, Raja Nagam and Dhikkatra Parvathi being the other memorables).
  
  I too don’t think he was a habitual rapist. He is unhappily married, with a nagging wife (Rajasulochana), and is returning home after a perhaps a dull day at work—the prospect of the ennui filled evening at home is perhaps gloomy and depressing- the pouring rain adds to his listlessness- when he spots the young and vulnerable looking Ganga, thoroughly drenched and waiting for her bus- perhaps his initial intention then was just an innocent offer of assistance- but the sight of her sitting (like a sitting duck!) on the back seat perhaps arouses him- it is a moment of weakness and he succumbs to it- a better man may have curbed this impulse- but then JK never tries to defend what Srikanth did-
  
  Again, if he were a habitual offender, would he remember Ganga years later? Wouldn’t she be just a blurred image in a long list of victims? (Interestingly, the same Srikanth has played the archetype rapist in so many forgettable films!)- That he recalls her instantly is perhaps an indication that he is essentially a good man, who has been carrying the cross of guilt all these years—and the friendship that develops so many years later between the perpetuator and his victim- those are the finest moments of the film- it is inexplicable to the beholders—perhaps shocking too- but it is perfectly natural to both of them- (I recall the early morning constitutional in the Marina- what sensitive performances by both the lead players!)
  
  And that he remains a man (mentally at least) wedded to his family- when at the end he expresses his inability to leave his wife and daughter—proves that he is just another normal middle-aged family man, whose only abnormal act was that act of abuse---but he's a honest man at least, for he never tries to deny or defend what he did. He knows it was very, very wrong. (That last telephone conversation brought tears in my eyes- Ganga, even in that moment of complete loss, chiding him- ‘Enna azharaelaa, no—no—neenga azhakoodaathu”)
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 213.42.2.7) on: Sat Jun 14 12:04:37 EDT 2003
  
  typo- read perpetuator as perpetrator- avasaram!
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 24.44.133.72) on: Sat Jun 14 12:07:01 EDT 2003
  
  PVM:
  
  As far as I remember it is from Thai Pongal, the MD - IR .
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 213.42.2.14) on: Sat Jun 14 12:19:56 EDT 2003
  
  PVM-
  
  Anjaneya Combines’ Thaippongal-1980 was directed by lyricist MG Vallaban. It starred Chakravarthi, Radhika, Vijayan, Rajesh and others. Don’t ever make the mistake of watching it- stop with listening to IR’s wonderful songs- ‘Theertha karaithanilae’(KJY, with Jency’s haunting humming)- there’s a solo version of the song by Jency as well, ‘Kann malargalin azhaippithazh’ (IR-SJ) and ‘Thaane sathiraadum’ (SJ-BSS)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Sat Jun 14 12:45:23 EDT 2003
  
  Saravanan -
  
  Your addition to my (and vengayam's) take on the Srikanth/Rapist character is interesting for many reasons. Let me quickly desconstruct "interesting" for you, before moving on to the other three:
  
  The debate whether S/R is a serial or one-off rapist is academic. Does violation seem less when it is only once?
  
  What's a moment of weakness - when rape is an inexorable demonstration of absolute male power? Does a man rape because he is feeling low and wants to get off, or because he knows he can - and can get away with it? Vengayam uses the word "desire" - and that is another point of divergance for me -
  When you "desire" a woman, you woo her - not dominate her. Desire is decorous, not ugly. Hence, Ganga in back-seat - even if I were to go with arousal - is a sex object in his eyes - not a "woman." This is a crucial point of separation in any rapist's mind (one-off or many): His needs are central. His gratification is utmost. The woman may as well be an inflated doll. Hence - objectification and overpowering (desire is a slow dance, even if initiated by a man it never dismisses with mutuality.)
  
  The "friendship" between S/R and Ganga is perhaps the most fantastical aspect of the book.
  But let me approach the women first - in the next post :-)
  
  
• From: Saravanna (@ 213.42.2.7) on: Sat Jun 14 15:01:44 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz- I am not justifying what he did- for that has no justification, I am just trying to understand the man, from what I recollect of the film--
  
  Waiting for your 'approaching the three women' :-)
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments