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Mohd Rafi is the Greatest Singer India Produced

Topic started by Srikant (@ 12.47.54.252) on Fri Jun 1 14:28:05 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Mohd Rafi - 100
Lata Mangeshkar - 98
SPBalasubramaniam - 96
Kishore Kumar - 95
Yesudas - 94
P Susheela - 93
Asha Bhonsale - 92
S Janaki - 90
Mukesh - 90
PB SRINIVAS - 85
JayaChandiran - 85
HariHaran - 85
TM Soundararajan - 80
Mannadey - 85
unniKrishnan - 85
MahendraKapoor - 80
Malasia Vasudevan - 75
IlayaRaja - 70
SD Burman - 75
MSV - 65
Rahman - 60

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Thu Jun 14 16:48:46 EDT 2001
  
  rajaG,
  
  It would be great if you or someone can find time to talk about KJY's voice range.I would like to know his strength and limitation.Thanks.
  
  
• From: IMF (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Thu Jun 14 19:26:35 EDT 2001
  
  rajaG, how do you know rafi has no song in which he can't hit the low notes. You haven't heard all his songs to make a judgement like that. Don't just go by the songs you have heard. This is your assumption on a singer in which you haven't heard all his songs. Please say facts about the songs which you have only heard. You are saying BS by giving opinions in general making it look like you have heard all of rafi's songs.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Thu Jun 14 19:44:40 EDT 2001
  
  IMF: which part of rAjAjI's posting "About Rafi's singing, sorry to belabour the point, if somebody can come up with real examples of in a "specific" song he has touched these "specific" notes (on the Western scale) which clearly establishes his prowess in the bass notes, I will gladly revise my opinion. Merely mentioning "I think he sounds cool in these notes", or "His bass in sow baar janam lEngE is better than KK's bass in panthi hoon mai" will get my usual "You don't know your sh*t man!" response:-) " you have problem comprehending? please make it clear. then sane people might (that's a BIG might) try to respond to you. till then adios, ciao, cheerio, tAtA, bye, ... (vaNakkam palamuRai chonnEn sabaiyinar munnE :-) )
  
  
• From: bm (@ 205.188.193.162) on: Thu Jun 14 21:04:40 EDT 2001
  
  IMF avargaLE...would u mind trying listening to tamil songs ..for starters , try this particular one with beautiful lines like "Thirundhadha jenmangal irundhenna laabam.,.."
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Fri Jun 15 10:03:08 EDT 2001
  
  Oops! serious typo! My detailed post on Thu Jun 14 15:35:48 EDT 2001 should read as
  
  "Rafi has virtually NO song where he could comfortably traverse an E1 or F1 note (in fact I wonder if there is any song where he has even touched these notes).
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Fri Jun 15 10:08:28 EDT 2001
  
  Trend: I will try to do it (KJY's range) soon. Contrary to what some DFers may think, if they are capable of thinking that is, I would NOT make a flippant remark about KJY's range before attempting to play out some of his "high" and "low" songs.
  
  MS: Since you have a large collection of KJY songs both Tamil and Malayalam, your input would be valuable.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Jun 15 12:13:45 EDT 2001
  
  G:
  
  yes I do. Even for a hard core fan ( not blindly though) of KJY (like me for instance :-)) it seems a bit difficult to comprehend his voice range. His voice range had been a function of his age. In the early stages, there was less bass in his voice and he was singing at scales much higher than he now resorts to. (now = period till 1994-1995). Typical examples of his early high pitched songs in Malayalam are:
  
  (1) Nakshathra dheepangaL thiLangi
  (2) sanyaasini nin puNyaashramaththil
  (3) aalaapanam ( from gaanam I guess)
  
  in tamil( middle era) I can quote:
  
  (1) thom thom thom
  (2) kalaivaaNiye
  (3) lochana
  
  IMO, his voice peaked near Sindhubhairavi period. He could sing literally anything ! I think it is in the same period that he sang two of his great songs:
  
  (1) mazaikkorudhEvane - shree raghavendra
  (2) Ezu swarangaLum - Malayalam ( much better than tamil)
  
  In Ezu swarangaLum he touches the nadir of base notes and sustains with absolute ease. In mazaikkorudhEvane, the brighas he displays are just just out of the world.But tamil songs never really gave a chance to display his vocal breadth.
  
  Then came the period of Ravindran's great classics (in Malayalam) by which time it was a forgone assumption that KJY sings mainly in the scale of C from lower panchamam to the upper. The first of its kind "His highness Abdullah" just proved how good he was at base notes (pramadhavanam). This just buttressed the aforestated assumption. The classic "bharatham" too did not have high pitched songs sans the only line in "Raamakatha gaanalayam". The songs of "Rajashilpi" and "kamaladhalam" were other classics which displayed more of his control on brighas than the vocal range.
  
  Then came "aaraam thampuraan" which virtually dispelled all the doubts about his vocal range. This was another classic by Ravindran and if anybody wants to have a taste of his vocal range, he need to listen to two songs:
  
  (1) Harimuraleeravam - Aaram thampuraan. Set in the raga sindhubhairavi it has a lovely hindustani aalaap in the beginning. The song starts in the base notes and reaches upper shadjam in the first sharaNam.
  
  (2) A song from Tansen composed by Ravi Jain which he sings in stage shows. There is NO oringinal sound track of this song.
  
  Let me put it this way. Harimuraleeravam is something ONLY he can sing. He spans from lower panchamam to upper shadjam. In the song by Ravi Jain too, he spans the entire octave.
  
  But after 95 his voice had deteriorated so much that he:
  
  (1) became more nasal
  
  (2) strains a lot for brighas which once flowed naturally - an example would be "vaarthingaaLaal maari vara gOrOchanam" in Malayalam- It is a beautiful composition by Ravindran.
  
  (3) has lost his bass considerably
  
  (4) has more vibrato. The vibrato which was a natural and loveable ingredient of his voice has become a platform on which he can comfort himself to maintain shruthi. The worst example of this is in the song "kaNNaamoochchi yEnadaa"..listen to the line "en kaNNaaaa...". The worst form of extra dependence on vibrato to stabilize voice is displayed by Kumar Sanu, but oops..we are talking about singers here..so let us exclude him from the discussion :-)
  
  Presently his voice will not have a range more than the upper panchamam. Or rather to put it in a different manner, it will be unbearable to hear him sing even above the upper madhyamam (scale C).
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Fri Jun 15 12:33:35 EDT 2001
  
  MS: continuing on the terminology I used earlier, IF we assume that Harimuralivaram was set in C2 as sa, then the song touches G1 as a low note and C4 as the high note. While I agree that with age, his higher octave notes might not sound pleasant (and as a smart musician, he may not venture into it), I am sure that in Carnatic concerts he digs deeper and deeper into the lower octaves. He may perform with C#2 as sa (madhya sthaayi) and actually go as low as C#1 - though NOT for a lot of sangadhis.
  
  Could you please take a couple of the songs which you have mentioned (especially in his prime) and write down the scale, and the highest note and lowest note that he has touched.
  
  The SPB, Rafi arguments were getting to be so nasty and distracting that I didn't even get a chance to mention this - scared of definite "misinterpretation" and the ensuing discussions and upakathaas - in technical aspects of singing (I repeat, singing NOT playback singing) KJY has performed many masterpieces in which he stands alone, at the top. God Bless him!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Fri Jun 15 12:40:38 EDT 2001
  
  MS and rajaG,
  
  Thanks a lot.Please contine this.
  Also, explain what is "brighas" and "vibrato"?Curse me for being such a novice but please do explain.Thanks.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Jun 15 14:06:51 EDT 2001
  
  G:
  
  Yes I shall write about a few songs with scales and notes for sure. But, before that, I would like to refute a few comments on SPB's range alongside mentioning about Shankar Mahadevan.
  
  Indian Music Fan:
  
  Your adoration of Rafi is very much wlecome. He is easily one of the greatest singers. But there are a few claims of oyurs which do not have a lot of basis. He is NOT the only singer to have sailed in high pitched singing easily. If you have an opinion of that sort, it could either mean ignorance or arroagance to accept. Pick your choice.
  
  FYI, there are many songs of SPB which have been rendered in a scale reasonably higher than he is used to render. A few mentionables are:
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Jun 15 14:07:49 EDT 2001
  
  (1) enadhu gaanam - He sails very comfortably and touches Bflat in the starting aalaap. As far as I know, Rafi had gone only upto A.
  
  (2) saththam illaadha thanimai kEttEn - from amarkkalam. Though the song itself is not a catchy one, it is a singer's nighmare and there are only two singers in the cine music who, IMO, can deliver it. SPB and SM. Why SM too ? Listen to "Breathless - the reprise" and "thEnmoziyE" of "varaaga nadhikkarai Oram". U will know what I mean. So what does SPB do in that song ? He touches upper shadjam at the end of the song (donno if he goes beyond that). Listen to it once.
  
  (3) yodelling - It is something which AFAIK, rafi had not done. Pelse let me know if he had. And I need not tell you how great Kishore was. Listen to "kELadi en paavaiyE" from gOpura vaasalilE..SPB does that for you. I can give you a complete list of songs by SPB which are basically unsingable ( within the tolerance limits) by anybody else. I know you can come up with a list of rafi's but the point here is while I am prasing SPB, I am NOT denying credits to Rafi.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Jun 15 14:08:23 EDT 2001
  
  (4) When it is easy for me to imagine SPB singing "dhuniyaa kE rakhwaale", I find it difficult to digest the rendition of "sangeetha jaadhi mullai" by Rafi. May be you should try imagining that and come to a better conclusion.
  
  (5) namma ooru singaari , engEyum eppOdhum, iLamai idho idho are classic examples of SPB in kind of a Rafi mould. But try substituting Rafi mentally in these. You will know what I am trying to imply.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.208) on: Fri Jun 15 15:01:36 EDT 2001
  
  MS: seththa paamba thirumbi thirumbi adikkalaamaa?:-) namma ooru singaari and iLamai idhO? I don't think so!
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Jun 15 16:17:01 EDT 2001
  
  G:
  
  I kind of correlate namma ooru singaari with baar baar dhEkho and aajaa rE aa zara..I think the expressions are awesome in all three though composition wise MSV is leagues ahead of the other MDs.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Fri Jun 15 16:29:18 EDT 2001
  
  MS: namma ooru singari - you would notice that gEli sirippu of SPB throughout the song. In sheer expression he is conveying "I am here baby! So whaassuuup? I am going to win you over and by golly, nobody's going to stop me" - a classic example of a super confident male romance. SPB delivers the dialogue to perfection.
  
  baar baar dEkhO.....is good, but I didn't find that certain unique quality about that song. However, aaja rE aa zaraa aa is special. Rafi is clearly conveying the "want" of the hero in the pallavi, yet the casual "aankhOn mE dil mE samaa" is typical inimitable Rafi. The vibrato in the charaNams sound like a gimmick (for Shammi) yet I cannot get the connection between the emotion in the pallavi and that of the charanams.
  
  But you are right, that these belong to similar genre of songs.
  
  

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