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Does ARR give music in its original form?

Topic started by Uthams (@ 64.154.150.4) on Fri Mar 9 02:04:17 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I doubt very much!! His music is not continuous. Fully digitized.. taking only samples of music. It is not flowing. Something is missing. Even though it appeals a lot after Rahman doing lot of tweaking with the voice and music after composing, it misses something. I still believe he is way behind IR interms of presenting music in its original form. Hope lots of guys will jump heaven and earth after reading this. But that is the harsh reality. I don't feel like listening to Roja songs anymore. But i still feel like listening to Vizhiyil vizhundu song from Alaigal oivadhillai. I still love his Malayil yaro manadodu. ARR music is more like a music for advertisements. It never blends with story or movie.

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Responses:

• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.22) on: Fri Mar 9 02:41:40 EST 2001
  
  Oh no, here we go again....!
  
  --Karthik
  
  
• From: paapa (@ 202.9.181.250) on: Fri Mar 9 04:14:20 EST 2001
  
  Uthamaa,Appo shruthi serndha pidikalaiyaa?Adhu dhaan viziyil vizundhu pathi pesaraa.Idhu dhaan harsh reality.Shruthinnu onnu irukku theriyumo?
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.179) on: Fri Mar 9 06:32:29 EST 2001
  
  You people don't have any other topic?
  
  By starting such threads ,You people get some sadistic pleasure it seems.
  
  
• From: Uthams (@ 216.34.170.242) on: Fri Mar 9 12:09:56 EST 2001
  
  I am not for theorizing music. Its just my view based on my listening experience. I don't criticize anybody here. Just a comparison. What is your point Common Friend? Debate is more interesting than everybody is saying yes to everything. Without debates you can never improve your ability to analyze. So don't talk like peace keeper. I didn't really throw any mud on ARR. One of my thread is not going to alter the success of ARR. I am talking about the way both musicians handle the musical instruments. Paapa is way off what i am talking about. Try to understand what others say before talking like genius.
  
  
• From: Uthams (@ 216.34.170.242) on: Fri Mar 9 12:10:06 EST 2001
  
  I am not for theorizing music. Its just my view based on my listening experience. I don't criticize anybody here. Just a comparison. What is your point Common Friend? Debate is more interesting than everybody is saying yes to everything. Without debates you can never improve your ability to analyze. So don't talk like peace keeper. I didn't really throw any mud on ARR. One of my thread is not going to alter the success of ARR. I am talking about the way both musicians handle the musical instruments. Paapa is way off what i am talking about. Try to understand what others say before talking like genius.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 13:36:22 EST 2001
  
  Uttams,
  
  "His music is not continuous"
  Music is big term, a song can be broken into : melody, chords, backgrounds, harmony, beat, arrangement,layers, counterpoints, fillins, intro...many many more aspects, can you be more specific,
  
  
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 13:38:46 EST 2001
  
  if you are not specific...explain more then your claim is just another cheap shot on ARR, thats all.
  
  
• From: Swami (not Swamiji) (@ 199.206.254.61) on: Fri Mar 9 13:56:54 EST 2001
  
  melody --> great in pieces and bits
  chords ---> amazing
  backgrounds ---> amazingly awful for ARR
  harmony ---> perfect dis-harmony and infact causes desynch of brain waves while listening to a song. Maybe this is one of the reasons his songs don't last long. The harmony is not free and does not follow the patterns human brain can follwo.
  beat ---> no one to beat him till date in TFM as far as western rythm and beat goes
  arrangement,layers ---> no one to beat him
  counterpoints ---> does he have counter points ?? I think this is not possible until or unless he come out of the sing anywhere-mix mode.
  
  Bottom line. ARR has a lot of plus. But amazingly I agree with Utham, it misses the touch to get into you (sans songs like Hai Na from Zubeidaa)
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 13:59:36 EST 2001
  
  when you say --- chords ---> amazing
  then "harmony" ---> has to be more than perfect.
  
  
  
  
• From: Fuel to fire - Vijay;)) (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Mar 9 14:13:22 EST 2001
  
  IMO, Rahman's biggest weakness might be the lack of potency in his tunes, especially of late. why are MSV's songs or madan mohan's songs being remembered after sucha long time? simple. its more because of the tunes than any great orchestration or rhythm or anything else that is associated with their songs.
  
  tunes are the heart of a song. u compose a good tune first and then build other components around it. Unfortunately, ARR hasnt paid much attention to this aspect or perhaps given his best which IMO has not been enough.
  
  also , of late, in the name of experimenting he has been spoiling good tunes. the song meanders somewhere after pallavi. snehidhane and porkalam enge are 2 good examples where ARR has NOT been able to sustain the mood of the song throughout.
  
  the songs lose their intensity in tunes after pallavi. when sadhana starts singing chinna chinna arputhungal purivaai you get the feeling that ARR has lost it instantly;))
  
  I believe, in his early years(92-96) when ARR was still learning the ropes the continuity in his songs were better. He might have improved in the other aspects of composing which people ike comment, swamiji etc. would be glad and perhaps more knowledgable to explain but as far his tunes are concerned..thats where the punch is missing.
  
  
• From: h2o (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 14:18:32 EST 2001
  
  vijay,
  hope you apply this rule to every other composer!....you know what i am talking about..:)
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Mar 9 14:19:44 EST 2001
  
  
  enna azhaga poo suthi maalai pottu saamiya alangarichaalum...manasukku pidikkanum athuthaan baseline.......athu ithule illenu namma Uthams solraar...athule 100% unmai irukku!
  
  One of my friend's poem (what I remember, not exact);
  
  .............................
  Iravin Azhagu; (Sivarajan)
  
  Nanbarodu Iravil Payanam
  Iruttin Amaithiyil
  Atho "nila" endraar avar
  Naan aaraya thodanginen..
  Atho "Orion"..
  Itho "Scorpion"...
  ....................
  innum ennanvo kaatinen..
  En Arivu katthiyil
  Kutthu Pattum, Vettu Pattum
  Kizhindhe Ponathu
  "Iravin Azhagu"!
  ................................
  
  P.S. Don't take it as an offence on anybody!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Mar 9 14:21:26 EST 2001
  
  h20, I say all this because ARR is so good in other aspects of composing..so if he takes a litle bit more care with his tunes he would deliver the goods. but as far as other guys out there..leave alone the tunes..nothing is appealing ;))
  yeah, I know what and about whom u are talking;))
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 14:44:27 EST 2001
  
  oh! powrnami....effect...
  
  P.S. Don't take it as an offence on anybody!
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Mar 9 14:51:06 EST 2001
  
  vijay,
  
  "but as far as other guys out there..leave alone the tunes..nothing is appealing"
  
  You mean He is still not out there.Has He retired? Or Do you mean His tunes are not appealing?To me His songs may not be the best but I think His songs are better than you think.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Mar 9 14:52:29 EST 2001
  
  OK, Trend, u are welcome to post your subjective opinion on this ;))
  
  
• From: cnn (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 14:57:54 EST 2001
  
  tfm weather report,
  sky is overcast just right for a fight,
  powerful typhoon "fliflo" along with 'trend' is moving around, hail possible,
  strong arr and ir winds upto 250miles per hour possible,
  :)
  
  flifo i am just kidding , no offence. :)
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Mar 9 14:59:13 EST 2001
  
  Powrnami...effect..thaan intha topic-ukke moola kaaranama???...ok..ok..Powrnami naalum athuvuma...nalla enjoy pannunga...Athu sari ennaikku powrnami??
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Mar 9 15:02:16 EST 2001
  
  that's ok..cnn..ithellam arasiyalile romba sagajam!
  
  
• From: Venki (@ 12.35.64.19) on: Fri Mar 9 15:06:37 EST 2001
  
  To my openion ARR is still to give good songs like Thiruda Thiruda, Duet, Roja, Pudia mugam, Kizhaku Cheemiyile. May be masters can analyze
  
  ARR before 95
  and
  ARR after 95
  
  
  
• From: cnn (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 15:06:54 EST 2001
  
  fliflo...yes i agree , i am just waiting for the date that you change side to support someone other than arr oops
  Ir
  
  ithellam arasiyalile romba sagajam!
  
  :)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Mar 9 15:09:00 EST 2001
  
  
  I was not trying to pick up a fight.-)I was reminding IR fans that they shud have right belief in IR.
  
  Vijay,
  Subjective opinions are dangerous to me.I don't want to be counting my bruises later.I'm looking forward to good weekend with a good weather.
  
  
• From: _ (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 15:10:43 EST 2001
  
  ayoooo "pathikala" "pathikala" oh oh kanne...
  
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Mar 9 15:18:17 EST 2001
  
  _,
  
  Not a result of noble intentions.-)It's just that I'm getting off work at 4p.m(another 45 mins).I don't have a lot of time for a fight.Unfinished business keeps nagging me later.
  
  
• From: _ (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 15:21:06 EST 2001
  
  it is just 12.08 here....
  :)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Mar 9 15:29:32 EST 2001
  
  You must be in PST.I'm in Ohio(EST) the state of Farmers and simpletons.Are you in Calif?
  
  
• From: comment (@ 63.225.173.91) on: Fri Mar 9 15:31:47 EST 2001
  
  i am from the 6.8 region...aka seattle :)
  ok, this is becoming a chat, before people starts to scream....we will stop :)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Fri Mar 9 15:37:35 EST 2001
  
  Sure .-)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Mar 9 16:20:10 EST 2001
  
  Trend, intha threadlayaavathu IRa izhukkaama ARR pathi mattum(mattamaa) pesuvome :-)
  
  
• From: Uthams (@ 216.34.170.242) on: Fri Mar 9 17:24:45 EST 2001
  
  I take an example. IR is capable of maintaining the mood of the song. Ex. Nee partha parvaikku oru nandri.. from HeyRam. ARR did it in Ennavale, Kadal Rojave.. But somehow i have a feeling that his music is just not the kind of music which pleases your soul. Even now when i listen to songs like Kamalam paadha Kamalam from Mohamul it heals your heart. Chinna kanna azaikkiran by Bala murali krishna is a wonderful song. I was quick to dismiss IR's ability to capture audiences with his captivating tunes at the advent of ARR back in 1992. But after listening to ARR's music for 9 years all i can say is ARR is no where in the class of IR. Does ARR use violin predominantly? just a curiosity. En veetu thottathil one song i can remember. IR used extensively.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Mar 9 18:14:29 EST 2001
  
  Uthams,
  You are talking about a very successful Music Director in TN, Hindi Filmdom and in Musicals scene in Broadway/London. So to prove your points you got to have some minimal musical qualifications. Without which this will only be an emotional argument than a technical one. If you are not musically qualified (like me) you may want to pose your feelings as questions. This will elicit more responsible responses from musically qualified people here. Let me try to rephrase questions as an example.
  
  1) I do not feel ARR's music is not continous/flowing. Is it because it is digitized/sampled ?
  
  Let me try to answer this myself -
  Just because something is digital does not make it continous. Though there is an impression that digital music (anything on CD) is not as smooth as analog (like LP or cassettes). Sampled music can be played in two ways - 1) sequenced (as in synths/sound modules). 2) Looped. Looping I am told can be much smoother than sequencing. But it all depends on the way the keyboard is played (I think). We are told that there is quite an amount of natural instruments in ARR's recording. So there is not enough to support your doubt/theory.
  
  Also, you may want to define 'music in its original form'.
  
  You do not want comparisons as well.
  
  I suggest not to indulge in name-calling as 'music for advertisements'. They even use Mozarts music in ads so you are not making any point here.
  
  "it never blends with the story". Again an allegation without substantiation, atleast with examples.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

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