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Why is discussion forum biased against KB?

Topic started by Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.243) on Wed Oct 8 14:46:50 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This isnt meant to be another comparison thread but just an opinion going by the comments in the various threads. Its surprising why KB never gets his due for his innovations and instead becomes targets for several trivial issues. Why are so many lesser directors allowed to get away so easily and their glaring deficiencies neglected?

Manirathinam, for all his asthetic touches to film-making, is many a time found wanting in ideas. Since Nayagan of 1988, there hasnt been much change in his themes. Add a layer of dialogs to some BBC documentary and you get a mani movie!
Mani preys on the helplessness of the viewer to negative social issues like terrorism. Beyond that nothing much!
I wonder how many are familiar with The Wonder Years, a popular serial that ran from 1988-93 in US and 93-98 in India on Star Plus. Just click here for the transcripts of some 100 episodes http://home.t-online.de/home/reynders/wy/wy-trans.htm
Mani's style of dialogs and interactions are very much similar to TWY. Click on any episode to verify. Mani was heavily inspired!!

KB is often blamed for his anti-climactic endings. But then, to expect a "lived-happily-ever-after" ending in his movies is to only insult his intellect. The rest of his mistakes, probably every other director does. When it comes to interactions between the characters of his movies, KB is unmatched. Nobody even comes close.
Interesting situations and interplays, KB is the master of weaving those magical plots.
Though Thalapathi and Mouna Ragam get my vote for alltime greatest film-making, anyday, KB alone satisfies.

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Responses:

• From: Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Wed Oct 8 14:52:03 EDT 2003
  
  Thalapathi was a class act in that it was a conglomeration of so many great talents...Rajini's best ever performance, impressive debut by Arvindsami, IR's reliable score, good support cast of Srividya & jaishankar, Camera by PC Sriram(dialog by Balakumaran? or sujata?)
  
  And while IR, a major contributor to the selling point to any movie, was around since 1976, not till 1985 till KB turn to him(for Sindhu bairavi). A luxury few could afford.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 12.29.89.6) on: Wed Oct 8 15:05:00 EDT 2003
  
  Some examples of the "innovations" of KB.... watch the movie "Pudhu Pudhu Arthangaaal"..... i have still no clue as to what the msg was from that movie.... and how come the heroine (damn, i forgot her name, the one who runs away with Rahman) suddenly gets back her husband....
  
  and then there is this famous JUNK movie - the 100th movie of KB - totally useless movie....
  
  mostly i find KB to have no clue as to how to end the movie.... watch Punnagai Mannan.... a wonderful movie, but for the last few scenes.... watch DUET - another big JUNK from KB.... except for PrakashRaj, the movie was a total crap.... especially the ending....
  
  Prabhu - KB got his due recognition when he was doing good.... once u give "crap" - u get back that only..... he WAS great.... no 2 opinions on that.... i dont think he has the "saraaaku" anymore now....
  
  
• From: Sridhar (@ 162.119.64.110) on: Wed Oct 8 16:29:27 EDT 2003
  
  KB is definitely a talented director. Who can forget his movies like 'Baama Vijayam'? He made wonderful movies until 'avaL oru thodarkathai'.
  
  From there on he started making a 'lady MGR' kind of movies, where herione would be respected by all other characters for no reason, men charecters would be either sadists or slaves to the herione. KB also displayed his high skills in making movies on perverts, more than once. Despite all these facts he was appreciated by the press constantly. I am glad that his recent movies were utter flops.
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Wed Oct 8 17:23:08 EDT 2003
  
  Ask KB to make a film without second pondaatti or theme of second marriage
  
  
• From: Surya (@ 63.74.137.105) on: Wed Oct 8 18:19:18 EDT 2003
  
  I dont think Marocharithra, Punnagai, Vaaname Ellai, to name a few, dealt with Second wife/marriage. Not all of his movies dealt with that subject!
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Wed Oct 8 20:06:30 EDT 2003
  
  Punnagai mannan did...
  Kamal loves/marries rekha b4 they fall off.
  
  But to add to the list of KB movies, Ethir Neechal, Major's first movie, surely did not have the 2nd marriage/wife...
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.236) on: Wed Oct 8 20:29:10 EDT 2003
  
  Apparently, some of KB's exaggerated depictions of women are getting unnecessary attention. One should take into account the period and era of his movies.
  
  During the 70s and 80s women were confined to a shell in society, dependent on the men..those days they had little freedom in charting their own careers. And once they were deserted or wronged by men, they were helped. It was KB who broke the trend and portrayed the independent and assertive working woman who can think for herself breaking free from the shackles of tradition. Did we ever have actresses playing weighty parts before his time? just look at some of roles he gave Saritha, Sujatha, Suhashini(twice), Shruti...those should easily rank as among the best female performances in TF history. Apart from Nandita Das and Mounaragam(revati) to an extent, did over-rated Mani ever have a strong female character? Geetha and Banupriya were utterly wasted in Thalapathi, the same goes for Roja, Nayagan, KM where the lead female was a mere accompaniment...Mani could easily fit in an inexperienced artiste and get away with it in each of his movies since the roles werent that defined. Not to be compared with KB on that aspect. Manis 'documentaries' never demanded strong portrayals!
  
  Just imagine if there was no Ayodhya in 92, no communal tensions in 90s...Where would Roja and bombay have ended up? Far less, just IMHO. Anjali was exploitation of human helplessness. Just like how Boys hinges on teenagers, story was totally dependent on kids. KM not much different.
  
  Sabesan, KB to an extent respected the rights of the audience and gave his works an open ending rather than force a stereotypical and kindergarten-like "THE BEST" ending like other directors. Gave his viewer the freedom to choose. He could make interesting tales out of nothing situations(good eg is Poi Kaal Kuthirai, a nothing story but ended up a nice entertainer). I havent seen much of his 60s works yet so cant comment more. Yes I agree he lost it a bit in the 90s, confused himself very badly in PPA and Azhagan.
  
  And on music part, personally, while watching a Johnny or an Enga Ooru Paatukaran, I'd experience a crash everytime a song finishes and we get back to a dull meaningless story...Not so with Manadhil Urudhi vendum or Unnaal Mudiyum Thambi - the screenplay was good enough you dont need IR's music to elevate it(Of course BGM is another story :))
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.236) on: Wed Oct 8 20:29:54 EDT 2003
  
  Correction for "And once they were deserted or wronged by men, they were helped"
  -------shud be HELPLESS
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 9 01:15:56 EDT 2003
  
  Prabhu,
  
  When I read comments in your post where you have intended that Mani is an over-rated director and have rubbished his films as mere documentaries it was enough for me to ignore the rest of your post.
  
  I dont think I will consider Mani as world-class until he stops including songs in his movies. Something like Kannathil Muthamittal minus the sundari song is what I am expecting.
  
  KB ofcourse made good movies. But I hate it when he always portrays a "ashadu vazhiyara adhiga prasangi" female in all his movies. I prefer Balu Mahendra and Mahendran for KB anyday!
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 9 01:17:14 EDT 2003
  
  KB is a good director but there is no necessary to bash Mani here
  
  
• From: V (@ 24.59.96.237) on: Thu Oct 9 01:30:18 EDT 2003
  
  shud read *necessity*
  
  
• From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Thu Oct 9 04:35:35 EDT 2003
  
  Prabhu,
  Looking at the thread title i thought why suddenly you have become an ARR fan :-)
  where KB = KeyBoard = ARR
  
  Coming to the topic, i had always relished KB's SONG picturisations than MR's. MR's songs are just fillers(relying mostly on good music,camera, locations and dance movements) whereas KB's songs are mostly situation driven and he picturises them innovatively(directorial touch). Ex: Kalaivaaniyey(arohanam),punjai undu(classical music for workers,gemini ganesan watching),sippi irukudhu(expression of love),anjali anjali pushpanjali(triangular love revealed),enna satham(suicide),eduthu naan vidava(wife watches,be careful) and lot more..he too had his share of fillers but far less than Mani's :-)
  
  
• From: Mythila (@ 203.200.33.65) on: Thu Oct 9 04:40:05 EDT 2003
  
  Paarthaale Paravasam - Paarthaale Parama Paapam What could be a better, bitter fall to disgrace to this once upon a time champion of women's voice than his 100th film? I can never forgive KB
  for the big fiasco in projecting the female lead as a hapless wimp who cannot survive without a man, leave alone survival, who needs a man to even foot her bills, bulls..t.
  In one scene, Vaali seems to extol her as Bharathi's Pudumai penn!!! Big joke.
  His 70's heroines(AOT, Avargal, AbRaagangal, MoonruMudichu, even Arangetram) seemed
  to have an identity, character , thinking ahead of time compared to his dumbo females post millenium!!!
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Thu Oct 9 05:11:55 EDT 2003
  
  Drama Background:
  KB predominantly a drama director that too with the like of AG's office troupe. There was a flamboyancy in the script, and fortunately got good break in movies. His domain was writing and he always excelled when a movie made with kind of melodrama involved. His strength is in handling of serious subjects. See the skills: In aboorva ragangal,the puzzle method, that puzzle was the just of movie. For every drama driven artists, it very difficult to adapt Cine media with drama stage. They tend to shout a lot, frown the eybrows to touch their moustache, Make eyes widen such that last row fellow can see them in stage (ex: Sivaji), but all these things become reduntant in cinema. This was perfectly demonstrated by likes of Mahendran, BM, BR. Also the support they can derive from MD is phenominal in cinema that too with the like of IR who can cover what director missed. KB is kind of director who says morning 6AM by showing a clock or some vaandu writing the time on a black board while BM would start the same scene with morning dews, array of colours. The impact Paruvame song creates on viewer can never be achieved by tons of script.This gap was widening every day thats why almost all his recent movies doomed.
  
  Music Support:
  However on music side, he is quite skilled on classical side, so that he could always derive very good tunes from MD. UMT,SB, Varumaiyin niram sivappu are some samples. But poor fellow he missed that support even by jumping to pop wagon!!
  
  Comedy:
  Other strong point is comedy. KB has inherent skill in handling comedy. Comedy was one life line in most of the movies.
  
  Risk:
  KB is quite reserved on this. See BR, the first movie he had shown what a TN village will look like. It took more than 10 years for KB to move to village for Thanneer thaneer.
  
  Artists selection:
  Thanks to KB, some of the current popular artists learnt how to act:) He gives enough scope for all his artists. Particularly Kamal was thoroughly groomed by KB in initial stages.
  
  Pioneer:
  In those days Mgr sivaji bipolar world, KB could carve a position for himself. This pioneering spirit helped him to even venture out to Chinna thirai and my god what a revolution he brought into that. Rail sneham serial almost changed the entire scenario for TV serials.
  
  Mani on the other hand will be very very sophesticated in handling subjects that are predominantly city basis. Mani movie require a) Pretty looking females b) Terrific music support c) Almost kind of rich stature d)Best technicians. Mani before roja, made movies for fun and dubbing of roja made him change his style to reach whole india but thats a misarable failure.ARR would suit him because he is also skilled in specific domain and that would suit mani.
  
  Gossip:
  KB developed some "Affectionate" artists.Only they will figure in all his serials and movies.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Thu Oct 9 14:16:01 EDT 2003
  
  V, I am not against Mani in any way. I just quoted him as he's a leading dir far ahead of the rest of the pack - on that I have no doubts. My only basis is to ask why nobody bothers about the obvious flaws in other directors.
  
  Speaker, nice points. Another one was the way they dealt with different subjects. Whenever they had to portray a beyond-control dismal situation in their movies, Mani's lead would react in a manner that evokes sympathy. There was always stoicism written over his tales. While KB's lead's reactions would evoke admiration and
  respect.
  
  I still dont understand why Mani(and most other dirs) never had proper female lead roles. Thats why we never saw good female lead casts from late 80s. For eg, in Agni nakshathiram, Mani could have given wider scope to a promising Amala. But instead, he chose to invest in the 'acting capabilities' of Vijayakumar, Prabhu and Karthik! :-) If there was one man who could have stopped the trend of dismal type-casting, it was Mani. But he didnt. The slide started then and till now we are and will be forced to tolerate the N.Indian imports..At this rate, Voiceover Savitha will continue to dub for over 250 movies a year! (Nandita Das exception in Azhagi and KM).
  
  Mani did compensate to an extent in 'Penn' though!
  
  The only defense of Mani I can offer is...launching his career at a time when the likes of KB, Mahendran, Sridhar, BM, BR had completely covered different genres and styles of film-making, he had to go for something of his own. Just like ARR had to bring in new music, totally new type of singers to avoid falling into the also-ran category of Shankar Ganesh and Manoj Gyan. In music, marketing or the arts, a new product better be radically different from the rest if it is to survive.
  
  And my long wish for the 90s and beyond will remain unfilfilled...KB re-creating a Manadhil urudhi vendum with Ramya Krishnan!! Who, I think will be frustrated with sub-standard roles, join politics and ultimately become TN CM in 2015! :-)
  
  

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