Neethane En Ponvasantham | Yeto Vellipoyindhi Manasu | Assi Nabbe Poorey Sau

[P_R]

I am not interested in the comparsion either. The reason I brought it up has been completely missed. Perhaps I couldn't elucidate this clearly enough.
But I found some points amusing, so I'll respond anyway..

1. Most of his work was not done for any monetary gain. Compared to what ARR and others make now, IR was not paid what his music is worth, but what ever it was, he did work for monetary gain.

Who decides what is 'worth'?? I mean, how can we say, latter day works he (or Rahman for that matter) were paid their 'worth'. IR-Bharathi compaison-ai vida indha meesic-money comparison kashtam illaiyA?

And what if a particular song was composed for the 'labor of love'. It becomes a category by itself to be judged differently??

And what is 'doing it for money'? An exact one-to-one quid-pro-quo?
I said how that is not poets operated back then. I gave examples of how bharathi's time was such that it was still not out of the puravalar-pulavar model of financial arrangements.

Did 'who pay' influence his work? I gave examples of how Bharathi has done that and gone about to regret it.
In music, it is scarcely discernible, no? If you are alleging that what MDs do, do not reflect what they want to do- but merely what they choose to sell, we are still evaluating the scale of achievement in the final output, right? (Of course Raja will grumble 'I wasted my life in films etc.', adhai paththi namakku enna?)

Classical musicians got paid for concerts. Classical composers had patrons. So, are we going to discount them?

Or is it 'sufferance of penury' that makes Bharathi shine? Tagore was from one of the richest families of Bengal. IlangovadigaL was the brother of a King.

I do get your point about the virtue of 'selflessness' but we talking about sheer artistic achievement here, aren't we? In fact the precise words Kamal used were: "bhaaradhikku nigaraana oru talent-nE solluvEn"

2. Bharathi is considered as revolutionary poet (not only in terms of content, but more in terms of style). Tamil poems are referred to as before and after Bharathi. IR can not be used as the before/after benchmark...He mostly stuck to the format and style used by his predecessors. He is the first or only one used lot of WCM elements - that's the only difference IMHO. Majority consider ARR as the before/after benchmark in TFM as well as IFM. (There were people who were using ARR style/technique before Roja, but ARR happened to be the one who took it to the masses)

idhellAm vishayam therinjavanga, neenga ellAm pEsikkunga.


Just to clarify one last time: I was NOT trying to equate the two ('Hanumanukkum Bruce-Lee-kum saNdai vandhA yAr jeyippAnga'-nnu chinna kuzhandhaigaL kEkkura mAdhiri). I was merely giving it as an example of how 'cute' arrogance looks when it is in past and we look at it with the glow of admiration.

enna kaiya pudichu izhuthiyA?

Whether IR will be revered like Bharathi only future will tell.

Kamal: un chellappettiya kANamnu solliNdrindhiyOlliyO
Delhi Ganesh: aamaam
Kamal: ....kaaNOm
DG: idhaiyE dhaan aadhyam naan sonnEn

[baroque]

yeah.. thanks for bringing a good point.

Bharathi is a pioneer of PUDHU KAVIDHAI!

C.RAMACHANDRA, S.D.BURMAN, MSV-TKR etc.. all have done different styles of music.

Whether IR will be revered like Bharathi only future will tell. But HCIR fans in this forum and other places are trying very hard to make that happen.

Let them try....

One step at a time for me...
I hope IR of 2012 will give couple of compositions in NEPV for me to revere or go awe like Ninaivellam Nithya or Agni natchathiram!

when I admire needhane pon vasantham...NN,
I admire Kavingar Vairamuthu and Bala equally and thank them for being there for IR!

I am a content fan, IR!

vinatha

[app_engine]

genesis,
There were, are & will be comparisons very many in the world. It can't be helped.

Depending upon either the facts or the comparing person's bias, one will be upped and the other downed or sometimes shown equal

And, it all depends upon the reading person's bias whether to get irritated or thrilled

Coming to those in this thread in recent times :

Comparing Bharathi & IR is quite far-fetched IMHO.
oruththar iyal - innoruththar isai, reNdu pErun vevvERu kAlaththavar; ippadi pala vidhangaLil the parametric differences abound.

The only similarities seem to be: (a) both are creative artists from TN (b) both with historic skill levels in respective fields (c) both with gnAnachcherukku.

OTOH, I feel the comparison between MSV & IR on their artistic skills isn't that much off the mark.
Parametric similarities are too many and the differences betwen the compared individuals is negligible on many but considerable on some. Some observations are based on facts and others based on bias. Matter simble, why kolaveRi on that?

That way, BRangan using MSV as a benchmark is not too far-fetched. As long as he is willing to take the criticisms on the critic in the right spirit (and not arrogantly slight the posters as dimwits who can't appreciate poo-peN), it could pave for some interesting interchange of minds.

Wait for a month or so for the mother of all comparisons

VTV v/s NEPV

[Devaraagam]

App,

I used to think one common thing with IR and bharathi. GUTS to talk and do what they think.


However I do not want to compare orange and apple because I like both

[genesis]

genesis,
There were, are & will be comparisons very many in the world. It can't be helped.

Depending upon either the facts or the comparing person's bias, one will be upped and the other downed or sometimes shown equal

And, it all depends upon the reading person's bias whether to get irritated or thrilled

Coming to those in this thread in recent times :

Comparing Bharathi & IR is quite far-fetched IMHO.
oruththar iyal - innoruththar isai, reNdu pErun vevvERu kAlaththavar; ippadi pala vidhangaLil the parametric differences abound.

The only similarities seem to be: (a) both are creative artists from TN (b) both with historic skill levels in respective fields (c) both with gnAnachcherukku.

OTOH, I feel the comparison between MSV & IR on their artistic skills isn't that much off the mark.
Parametric similarities are too many and the differences betwen the compared individuals is negligible on many but considerable on some. Some observations are based on facts and others based on bias. Matter simble, why kolaveRi on that?

That way, BRangan using MSV as a benchmark is not too far-fetched. As long as he is willing to take the criticisms on the critic in the right spirit (and not arrogantly slight the posters as dimwits who can't appreciate poo-peN), it could pave for some interesting interchange of minds.

Wait for a month or so for the mother of all comparisons

VTV v/s NEPV

app - I am not complaining about comparison - but how it is done. Yeah, you are right about bias. HCIRF fans get irritated whenever an unbiased opinion is expressed. That person get immediately stamped as "IR hater", "Hidden Agenda", "ARR Fan' etc etc.

I am very sure NEPV will be rated very high in this forum. I will judge based on whether GVM will ever go back to IR.

[AravindMano]

I am very sure NEPV will be rated very high in this forum.

You have said this a hundred times and we get the point. You judging the reaction now itself is as bad as HCRF already deciding that NEPV is a landmark album. Give us a break.

[P_R]

HCIRF fans get irritated whenever an unbiased opinion is expressed. That person get immediately stamped as "IR hater", "Hidden Agenda", "ARR Fan' etc etc.
...
I am very sure NEPV will be rated very high in this forum.

pAttu ellAm guppy-yA irukkum. ivanga ellArum summA blindA aahaa-oohoo 'mbAnga appadinnu enna oru unbiased anticipation!

Yuvar pAdinadhukku yERkanavE silapEr thitteetaanga. Dunno if you had a chance to notice all that.
andha gaandharva kural-la naalu pAttA-nu, nAttula palar peedhiyila irukkAnga.

I will judge based on whether GVM will ever go back to IR.

pOga mAttArunga. Do vitruvaar.
aduththa padam Joshua Sridhar.
adhanaal, aRiyappadum needhi yaadhenil....

[genesis]

P_R,

I already bailed myself out. Just what I expected...my arguments are being manipulated to make them irrelevant or even worse wrong.

I brought in monetary comparison just to indicate whatever it may be, but it was not a selfless act. On second point, Bharthi's work was just done by himself. Movie songs are mostly team work. Arrogance does not help to be a good team player.

My "unbiased" comment about NEPV review is based on what I have seen in this forum for last 4-5 years, not a prediction. I am sure at least few HCIR fans will say Yuvan's voice is the best choice for that song/situation and IR's genius in using his voice etc etc..... (I just hope Yuvan is not trying to do a Alphons Joseph number for his dad)

[V_S]

P_R,

I already bailed myself out. Arrogance does not help to be a good team player.

genesis,
Please don't take me wrong. You have irritated us to the core by your posts. If you have already bailed out, what is the need to say this 'arrogance thing about IR. We can't take anymore such stuff from you. If you think movie songs is about team work, let it be as your thoughts. Just because of that, you can't blame IR as arrogance since he is not operating in that way. I don't know why suddenly every one is targeting IR like this. Is he your relative or he does he owe you anything? You have been listening to his songs right from 80s and you have no complaints till 92, and someone else is making music in a different way, you want this genius to follow the same way as others, otherwise he is arrogant. Please don't spam this thread and inject poison in every post of yours. If you don't like his music, please feel free to stay away. We cannot take this any longer.

I also demand you to remove your post on IR's arrogance, which is totally unwarranted. Enough is enough! I can't stand a genius like Ilaiyaraaja to be treated in such a bad way, if not for his music! He does not deserve all this! Very sorry Raja for you!

[P_R]

V_S, cool down X 3.
padam varra varaikkum ippadi yEdhAvadhu pEsittu iruppOmE.