Global recognition for IR's music.......

[eagle]

JemO's Reply via mail!

நான் கையைத் தூக்கிவிடுகிறேன். எனக்கு இசை பற்றி ஒன்றும் தெரியாது. நான் சொன்னது ஒரு எளிய மனப்பதிவு. அதற்கு இசை அறிந்த ஷாஜி போன்ற சில நண்பர்களின் கூற்றுக்கள் உதவி புரிந்தன. எனக்கு ராஜாவின் இசையையும் ரஹ்மானின் இசையையும் ஒப்பிடும் தகுதியும் கிடையாது.
நவீனத்துவம் என்ற சொல்லை நான் மீண்டும் மீண்டும் வரையறைசெய்திருக்கிறேன். நவீனத்துவம் நவீனம் இரண்டும் வேறு வேறு நவீன என்றால் புதியகாலகட்டத்தைச் சேர்ந்த என்று பொருள்படும். நவீனத்துவம் என்றால் சில குறிப்பிட்ட குணாதிசயங்கள் அதனுடன் இணைந்துள்ளன.
நவீனத்துவம் 1. ஒருங்கிணைவும் ஒத்திசைவும் உள்ள படைப்புகளை உருவாக்கும். 2. ஒரே குரலில் ஒலிக்கும் ஆக்கங்களை உருவாக்கும் 3. ஒரு தனி மனிதனின் சுயத்தின் வெளிப்பாடாக இருக்கும்.
இவ்வியல்புக்கு எதிரானது பின் நவீனத்துவம். அது 1. ஒத்திசைவுக்குப் பதிலாக பலதிசைகளிலும் விரியும் தன்மை கொண்ட ஆக்கங்களை உருவாக்கும் 2. பலகுரல்களின் கூட்டுவெளியாக, உரையாடல்தன்மை கொண்டதாக இருக்கும் 3. ஒரு தனிமனிதனின் சுயத்தை மட்டும் வெளிபடுத்தாது, அவன் ஓர் ஊடகமாகவே இருப்பான். அவன் வழியாக ஓர் காலகட்டம் வெளிப்பாடு கொள்ளும்

இலக்கியத்தில் சுந்தர ராமசாமி, அசோகமித்திரன் போன்றவர்களை நவீனத்துவர்கள் என்கிறோம். அவர்களின் பல இயல்புகளை பிறகு வந்த ஆக்கங்கள் விலக்கிக் கொண்டன
ரஹ்மானின் இசையை பின் நவீனத்துவக் குணங்கள் கொண்டது என நான் சொன்னது இதன் அடிப்படையிலேயே. ராஜாவின் இசை எத்தனை விரிவானதாக இருந்தாலும் அது முழுக்கமுழுக்க ராஜாவால் மட்டுமே உருவாக்கப்பட்டு அவரது ஆளுமையை மட்டுமே வெளிப்படுத்தும் தன்மை கொண்டது. ஒரு இம்மி கூட பிறிதை அவர் அனுமதிப்பதில்லை
என் கருத்து தவறானதாக இருக்கலாம் என்றும் ஒப்புக்கொள்கிறேன். நான் இதைச்சார்ந்து விவாதிக்கும் தகுதி கொண்டவன் அல்ல

and Truce from my side

பதிலுரைக்கு நன்றி மேலும் இதை பற்றி விவாதிக்க இயலாதவாறு செய்து விட்டீர்கள். விவாதம் செய்துதான் என்ன ஆகி விட போகிறது?!! ஆயினும் நவினத்துவம் - பின்நவீனத்துவம் பற்றிய தங்கள் விளக்கத்தை உள்வாங்கி கொண்டேன். யோசித்து கொண்டிருக்கிறேன்.

I got the same reply from Je Mo. I think we will have to give credit to to him that he tried to figure out in his own way the most debated issue in the tamil film music ever.

One thing he left out in my opinion is his mentor Su.Ra's POV that MSV's music is incomplete (mentioned in "ninaivin nadhiyil" by Je.Mo) Rahman always used to appreciate MSV's compositions and consider him as the true genius....

Is he an extension MSV in the truest sense?

[kiru]

Vinatha,

I too think that Rahman's tunes are more closer to MSV's style of tuning than to Raja's style of tuning. I guess these are liberties taken by the press in calling Rahman as disciple of Illayaraja. I don't think it is true.

Suresh, Please elaborate.

I think Rahman follows the standard format of a song, which is followed by everybody including MSV or IR.
Later stages in his career IR started making the tunes "very tightly coupled" either with bassline (germaniyin), chords (kadhal oviyam) or layers of harmony (eg. enna solli paduvatho). Basically he transformed a film song into a sort of WCM composition. I dont think these sort of songs are the native taste of our people. Even though IR sets the tune in a specific raagam.
An example of "free form" melody is puththam pudhu kaalai and I think this is exactly what ARR does. A nice backdrop/drone, here it is a guitar vibe', a steady rhythm timed by a chalangai and unique drum arrangements.

Add to this, MSV introduced orchestral arrangements in his songs, which is why IR says, "without MSV I would not know how to create a film song". In that sense (WCM arrangements) and starting from a library of raagams, IR is MSV 2.0. All IMHO.

I am willing to listening to what you guys have to say anyways.

[ARUNPRAKASHKRISHNAN]

well this is an interesting subject.arr follows msv.for which i have to explain a composition. a song can be divided in to two parts. it has a mettu and a tune.the rhythmic structure in which the notes are placed is the mettu of the song. the flow of notes in that rhythmic structure is the tune.we can take two eg say chinna chinna aasai and aathangarai marame from kizhaku cheemaiyile.frist two lines of both the songs have the same mettu which msv has used in veedu varai uravu, pesuvathu kiliya,mambazhathu vandu etc. .every song has a key melodic line. in chinna chinna aasai it is ennai intha bhoomi sutri vara aasai. the notes phrasings for this line has been composed by arr in typical msv style which msv has used in many many of his compositions.similarly in aathangara marame,the key melodic phrase is nee ponna intha othai usiru thangathe[something like that. i dont remember the exact words]which is again typical msv style.will write more later. thanks

[ajaybaskar]

Kiru,

ARR changed the way a song is composed and the structure of the song is distinct in Rahman's music. As far as I heard, he is the one who adds lots of sounds to a song. This addition happens till the very last moment. I dont think any other MD does this.

MSV and IR's songs stuck to the basic skeleton of the song, i.e with a pallavi and 2 identical saranams. But in case of ARR, the flow of the songs were not the same. He has composed a lot of songs with two different saranams. Eg: Strawberry Kanne.., Pachai Niramae, Nadhiyae...etc,etc..

[app_engine]

MSV and IR's songs stuck to the basic skeleton of the song, i.e with a pallavi and 2 identical saranams.

Not true, there are SEVERAL examples otherwise. Much bigger number than the ARR ones (that you've mentioned and missed).

However, don't want to digress on that aspect in this thread. Can discuss somewhere else on "songs with unconventional structures"

[Sureshs65]

Kiru,

I wouldn't call IR as an extension of MSV. As AE says this may not be the right thread to discuss this. Will post my thoughts later.

[kiru]

Kiru,

I wouldn't call IR as an extension of MSV. As AE says this may not be the right thread to discuss this. Will post my thoughts later.

Sure, please start a thread on this or activate a new one. I am getting bored of all threads talking about Oscars or about who is a humble or a nice person.

[irir123]

PAY DIRT!! renowned Los Angeles based journal FILM SCORE MONTHLY reviews and profiles Maestro.Ilaiyaraaja's music!!!

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/6175/An-"Unknown"-Indian-Film-Music-master/

Highlight: "It is quite clear that Ilaiyaraaja’s respect is well-warranted. His music is immediately engaging, with a popular sensibility that gives way to detailed construction upon further exploration. Working with a variety of synthetic production, live orchestra, and fabulous singers and Indian music instrumentalists lends the music a unique quality that one discovers is part of the style of this composer. Here is someone who has discovered a way to fuse musics from multiple periods both East and West to create a sound that serves each subsequent film. There is much of the composer’s music to be explored and even with the language barrier that ultimately exists, the music is immediately communicative and often entrancing."

Hip Hip Hurray!

[MrJudge]

irir123:

[Hulkster]

The whole article shows deep appreciation for thalaivar's style of music in a new light. The author describing IR's music as totally unique rather than just a blend of WCM and ICM cuts the cake. This comment is the best.

"The first of these is for a 2005 comedy, Mumbai Express (Venus Records 1542). Over the 6 ample tracks here, we here the jazzy funky sounds of “Aila Re” to samples of underscoring with dialogue in “Pyaar Chahiye” which give way to another beautiful lyric song. As all good film music does, Illayaraja’s score simply supports narrative with appropriate melodrama cast in moving string sounds. In “Bander Ki Dug Dugi” Indian percussion give way to an almost Grusin-like 80s jazz sound with vocals. This blend of dialogue that moves into song is indicative of Indian cinema and what this disc allows is fans of the film to hear the complete context of the songs that are used in the film and how the instrumental music weaves into and out of the song material. The one instrumental track, “Monkey Chatter,” is actually an 80s-ish jazz instrumental piece that uses a variety of electronic keyboards and some acoustic instruments (or an extremely dryly recorded live orchestra) for a suberb jazzy track. Most listeners would be hard pressed to know that this track was composed by an Indian composer demonstrating Illayaraja’s complete mastery of the Western forms explored here (this can be heard equally in the more classical crossover releases available for review as well). The melodic content of the score has an almost spiritual quality at times that makes it quite an engaging listen. The disc runs to 45 minutes but note that 16 minutes of that are repeated as bookends to the central material."