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SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced

Topic started by greatest_spb_fan (@ 212.2.14.241) on Thu Aug 2 04:57:19 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

why don't anybody start a thread like 'SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced', pls

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Mon Sep 24 12:01:22 EDT 2001
  
  ET;
  
  "Kaluthaiku theriyma karpoora vasanai"
  
  atha mathiri
  
  "Unnaku theriyuma sangeetha vasanai"
  
  
• From: Mudhalvan (@ 195.92.67.70) on: Mon Sep 24 16:56:13 EDT 2001
  
  Hey Guys;
  
  Did You guys hear that Shanker Mahadevan appearnetly asked SPB to render his songs in Aalavandhan with funny accent of Tamil, like his nasal brothers like Hariharn Udit & Srinivas sings, but SPB fumed over this issue & refused to sing the songs!,
  
  the other funny thing is KJY who also pronounces Tamil badly was once told by MSV in the song "ninai vale silai seithu thiru theril", where said the word "thiru" as "theru (road)", & he did not like the fact MSV told him off, so he stopped singing for MSV, KJY is a bad tempered person, unlike SPB who is humble & down to Earth!
  
  
• From: polappu (@ 216.253.102.3) on: Mon Sep 24 18:41:04 EDT 2001
  
  ET,
  You are right. "Chappathi chappathi than..."
  
  Poplappu
  
  
• From: Radhai (@ 139.87.43.109) on: Mon Sep 24 20:44:12 EDT 2001
  
  Instead of analyzing the reasons for calling SPB the greatest singer, the forum contributors are doing a SPB-KJY bashing. I bet both the singers would never want their fans to do this.
  
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Tue Sep 25 05:08:19 EDT 2001
  
  Radhai;
  
  No body is bashing out these two legend, but comparing one's assets & abilities with the other, that's all, but I have to admit, there couple of gnasooniams (non-music senses) around here!
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Tue Sep 25 09:16:03 EDT 2001
  
  Raguvaran
  
  everyone has limitations. that is common to all. spb's voice was considered to be not suitable for the 'simmakkuralon' sivaji, which is a fact!
  
  anbudan
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: OSAMA (@ 203.199.231.176) on: Tue Sep 25 10:29:46 EDT 2001
  
  This Raguvaran is crazy,fanatic and little bit lunatic also....Please let him express whatever he wants....He is building a temple for SPB in Kooduvancheri
  
  
• From: Isaipriyan (@ 157.95.211.50) on: Tue Sep 25 10:43:16 EDT 2001
  
  SPBs most favourite singer is KJY.That says it all.
  
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Tue Sep 25 11:05:21 EDT 2001
  
  mahabs;
  
  Of course I agree, TMS & m.vASUDEVAN suit Sivaji better than any body, including SPB & KJY!
  
  OSAMA;
  
  I am not an idiot like you to build temples for Human beings, There are some idiots like you who would build temples for "Kushboo", "Jeyalalitha",..etc, this only happens in India, I am not an Indian OK, I am Srilankan Tamil, I am only saying SPB is genius & greatest in India, that's all, if you want to argue, then do so with proofs, rather than ill statements to prove your incompetence & lack of music knowledge.
  
  
  Isaipriyan;
  
  SPB's most favourite singer is NOT KJY, but it is M.Rafi, KJY is second choice, that shows how much respect SPB has for KJY, but How much respect has KJY got 4 SPB???
  
  
• From: Isaipriyan (@ 157.95.211.50) on: Tue Sep 25 14:32:07 EDT 2001
  
  Raghu,
  Its not compulsary to say that SPB is KJY's favourite and express his respect for SPB.But SPB says KYS voice is his favourite because he thinks KJY's voice is something rare and has the best qualities of a male singer.Its same like your opinion of saying SPB is your favourite.
  NOM.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Tue Sep 25 22:44:03 EDT 2001
  
  Raghuvaran:
  
  KJY has a lot of respect for SPB and much saner than you have projected here. Please stop bashing people and observe decorum.
  
  
• From: CHECKER (@ 64.126.39.57) on: Tue Sep 25 23:52:29 EDT 2001
  
  SOME OF THE BETTER POSTS ON THIS TOPIC, INSTEAD OF THE USUAL I CAN PISS FARTHER THAN YOU, SO I'M RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG CRAP!
  
  · From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.129) on: Thu Jun 14 15:35:48 EDT 2001
  
  Range (in statistics and in music) is defined as the distance/gap between the highest value and the lowest value of any metric. In the case of human voice, it is obviously measured by the lowest note and the highest note a person can touch and sustain. While the Indian classical nomenclature (sa re ga ma) gives a good indication of range it is still a relative measure. Sudha Ragunathan hitting the mElstaayi 'pa' in 5 katta (safEd 5) might still be a 'ri' for somebody whose voice is in 1 katta (safEd 1). Absolute note is the standard nomenclature of Western Music. For example E is E and G is G. Talking about SPB's range, he sang Suvvi Suvvi Suvvaalammaa and hit the keezh "sa" i.e the lowest E. In Rajai kaiya vachcha (set in A major) he hits the highest B flat note. To chart out his range, it will look like E1 to E2 to E3 to B#3 - which is over 2 and 1/2 octaves. Typically lady singers have a much higher range, plus they can smoothly transition into falsettos thereby increasing their ranges too. Incidentally, there may be an occasion that SPB has hit a note higher than B#3 or lower than E1, but I am guessing that it is NOT typical.
  
  Rafi was very comfortable in the upper octaves being more of a tenor. Duniya kE rakhwaalE was set in E minor and he goes up all the way upto madhyam which happens to be A3. In the live show versions he went up to pa (but the scales were reduced to D minor) so he was still hitting A3 as the highest note in the song. Man tarpat was also set with E2 as sa (A minor is the root chord since hindolam has no panchamam). When he says sun mOrE vyaakul man.........., he hits the upper madhyam which also happens to be A3. I however believe that Rafi was quite comfortable in staying in the upper notes and probably had an upper tip which could even touch the C4 note.
  The question is about the lower notes. Rafi has virtually NO song where he could comfortably traverse an E1 or F1 note (in fact I wonder if there is any song where he has even touched these notes). This is what people refer to as an absence of bass, in the voice. Discussion of bass is merely an observation - it has no bearing on the talents of a singer.
  
  When forumers talk about Rafi's bass, I wonder how many of them have ever sat with a Harmonium or a keyboard and try to gauge the scale in which the songs have been presented. Incidentally, I have NOT claimed that SPB has the widest voice range. I have just used his singing as an example. There are many classical singers who have a much wider range. If you take a typical male voice using C as the base scale then C1 to B1 would be mandhra sthaayi (keezh sthaayi) C2 to B2 would be madhya sthaayi and C3 to B3 would be mEl sthaayi. About C4 and beyond - would be kadhavu idukkula eli chikkinda sthaayi:-) Once again I have used, the Harmonium which has typically 3.5 octaves as the reference for C1, C2 etc.
  
  About Rafi's singing, sorry to belabour the point, if somebody can come up with real examples of "specific" songs where he has touched these "specific" notes (on the Western scale) which clearly establishes his prowess in the bass notes, I will gladly revise my opinion. Merely mentioning "I think he sounds cool in these notes", or "His bass in sow baar janam lEngE is better than KK's bass in panthi hoon mai" will get my usual "You don't know your sh*t man!" response:-)
  
  · From: MS (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Fri Jun 15 12:13:45 EDT 2001
  
  G:
  
  yes I do (on KJY’s Range). Even for a hard core fan ( not blindly though) of KJY (like me for instance :-)) it seems a bit difficult to comprehend his voice range. His voice range had been a function of his age. In the early stages, there was less bass in his voice and he was singing at scales much higher than he now resorts to. (now = period till 1994-1995). Typical examples of his early high pitched songs in Malayalam are:
  
  (1) Nakshathra dheepangaL thiLangi
  (2) sanyaasini nin puNyaashramaththil
  (3) aalaapanam ( from gaanam I guess)
  
  in tamil( middle era) I can quote:
  
  (1) thom thom thom
  (2) kalaivaaNiye
  (3) lochana
  
  IMO, his voice peaked near Sindhubhairavi period. He could sing literally anything ! I think it is in the same period that he sang two of his great songs:
  
  (1) mazaikkorudhEvane - shree raghavendra
  (2) Ezu swarangaLum - Malayalam ( much better than tamil)
  
  In Ezu swarangaLum he touches the nadir of base notes and sustains with absolute ease. In mazaikkorudhEvane, the brighas he displays are just just out of the world.But tamil songs never really gave a chance to display his vocal breadth.
  
  Then came the period of Ravindran's great classics (in Malayalam) by which time it was a forgone assumption that KJY sings mainly in the scale of C from lower panchamam to the upper. The first of its kind "His highness Abdullah" just proved how good he was at base notes (pramadhavanam). This just buttressed the aforestated assumption. The classic "bharatham" too did not have high pitched songs sans the only line in "Raamakatha gaanalayam". The songs of "Rajashilpi" and "kamaladhalam" were other classics which displayed more of his control on brighas than the vocal range.
  
  Then came "aaraam thampuraan" which virtually dispelled all the doubts about his vocal range. This was another classic by Ravindran and if anybody wants to have a taste of his vocal range, he need to listen to two songs:
  
  (1) Harimuraleeravam - Aaram thampuraan. Set in the raga sindhubhairavi it has a lovely hindustani aalaap in the beginning. The song starts in the base notes and reaches upper shadjam in the first sharaNam.
  
  (2) A song from Tansen composed by Ravi Jain which he sings in stage shows. There is NO oringinal sound track of this song.
  
  Let me put it this way. Harimuraleeravam is something ONLY he can sing. He spans from lower panchamam to upper shadjam. In the song by Ravi Jain too, he spans the entire octave.
  
  But after 95 his voice had deteriorated so much that he:
  
  (1) became more nasal
  
  (2) strains a lot for brighas which once flowed naturally - an example would be "vaarthingaaLaal maari vara gOrOchanam" in Malayalam- It is a beautiful composition by Ravindran.
  
  (3) has lost his bass considerably
  
  (4) has more vibrato. The vibrato which was a natural and loveable ingredient of his voice has become a platform on which he can comfort himself to maintain shruthi. The worst example of this is in the song "kaNNaamoochchi yEnadaa"..listen to the line "en kaNNaaaa...". The worst form of extra dependence on vibrato to stabilize voice is displayed by Kumar Sanu, but oops..we are talking about singers here..so let us exclude him from the discussion :-)
  
  Presently his voice will not have a range more than the upper panchamam. Or rather to put it in a different manner, it will be unbearable to hear him sing even above the upper madhyamam (scale C).
  
  · From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Fri Jun 15 12:33:35 EDT 2001
  
  MS: continuing on the terminology I used earlier, IF we assume that Harimuralivaram was set in C2 as sa, then the song touches G1 as a low note and C4 as the high note. While I agree that with age, his higher octave notes might not sound pleasant (and as a smart musician, he may not venture into it), I am sure that in Carnatic concerts he digs deeper and deeper into the lower octaves. He may perform with C#2 as sa (madhya sthaayi) and actually go as low as C#1 - though NOT for a lot of sangadhis.
  
  Could you please take a couple of the songs which you have mentioned (especially in his prime) and write down the scale, and the highest note and lowest note that he has touched.
  
  The SPB, Rafi arguments were getting to be so nasty and distracting that I didn't even get a chance to mention this - scared of definite "misinterpretation" and the ensuing discussions and upakathaas - in technical aspects of singing (I repeat, singing NOT playback singing) KJY has performed many masterpieces in which he stands alone, at the top. God Bless him!
  
  
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Wed Sep 26 05:48:29 EDT 2001
  
  Isaipriyan & MS;
  
  How many times I have to repeat my self, I have never degraded KJY, never will, he is my second favourite after SPB, OK!, but If have said about facts of KJY, which have offended some of you, then I am sorry, but facts remain facts, KJY sounds nasal at highest Note (ettank kattai), KJY was quite nasal during 1963-1990, he then developed some sort of bass, which is good, but nothing compared to SPB's bass.
  
  KJY is not very comfatable at higest notes as SPB, nor does he sounds at the lowest note (muthalang katta), he normaly sings between 2-7 kattais, he can go beyond that, no doubt, but sounds weired.
  
  What about Balamurali Krishna, he is also excellent as SPB in bass & lower notes, but no body seems to be interesed in Him.
  
  checker;
  
  your points are valid, but what is this alphabet business
  
  

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