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Why are singers from the North (or West, rather) made to sing tamil songs?

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-2-187.atl.bellsouth.net) on Wed Jul 2 16:52:41 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.208) on: Thu Jan 25 16:03:05 EST 2001
  
  UV: I believe, Veerabagu was only making a point about how, in the yesteryears, despite their non-thamizh backgrounds the composers, singers, actresses did justice to thamizh. Please don't get hung up on whether he referred to MSV as MalayaLi or SPB as thelugu.
  
  Veerabagu: I can even take the wait and the additional expense, if, a big IF, the singers/actresses were worth it. But my blood boils if it is vaanthi edukkira Udit Narayan, dhondu kizham Lata, vayaasaana keech mooch Asha, nuni naakkaal paadum Sadhana Naragam or a washed-up used-up Monisha Koirala. No, this is not a noble "vandhaarai vaazha vaikkum" thamizh culture. This is merely a representation of, despite all the hue and cry about thamizh, dhraavidam, blah blah blah, that thamizhars basically suck up to North Indians. Let me see one protest from the pro-thamizh group outside a theatre, studio, MD's house demanding 'better thamizh'. I will be the first to acknowledge that thamizhars have spine.
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Thu Jan 25 22:22:56 EST 2001
  
  Veerabaagu,
  
  Agree with most of your points excepting ...Remember, this was the period when Tamils were happy that they had a musical talent from Tamilnadu village in the form of Ilayaraja. This trend setter unfortunately sent tamil voices to the gutter...
  
  Don't you think by the time IR arrived the scene, MGR/Sivaji had gone/going and for Rajini/Kamal he was forced to use SPB/KJY etc., instead of TMS/Seerkaazhi. It is highly unfair to say he sent to gutters. In my opinion t he was/is the only MD who selected right singers for right languages. All those criticisms against KJY did not happen in IR times.
  
  If IR uses Arun Mozhi, then there are criticisms that he over used him (though the fact is he sang less than 2% of IR's songs)
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Thu Jan 25 22:24:10 EST 2001
  
  rajaG, Well said :-)
  
  
• From: vtv (@ 203.199.236.26) on: Fri Jan 26 14:02:31 EST 2001
  
  Raga G - You said it.
  During IRs days the word said for aspiring singers requesting singing oppurtunities was -
  TIME VARATTUM. The time came only for Mano, Chitra, Swarnalatha etc.
  Now the time has come for Udit, Sukvinder,Sadana etc. through National and International Rahman. He has just enhanced the bad precedence of his predecessor IR who promoted Kjj and Spb only as you said for Rajini and Kamal. Why not new voices from the State of TN.
  There is no use taking a procession to oppose these fellows. They have to clear their nuts out and get mentally treated. The treatment has already started to IR, with the flops of KR and YSR.
  
  
• From: Gangu Boy (@ 24.12.103.236) on: Mon Jan 29 22:24:38 EST 2001
  
  Also,there is not much of original Tamil singers during any point of time in tamil movies.
  SPB,S.janaki,P.Susheela,PB Srinivas,Mano -- All telugu
  KJY,jayachandran,Chitra,MinMini,Swarnaltha -- All Malayalam .
  The funniest Part is tamilians are called conservatives and don't accept people from other areas.
  
  
• From: Gangu Boy (@ 24.12.103.236) on: Mon Jan 29 22:24:57 EST 2001
  
  Also,there is not much of original Tamil singers during any point of time in tamil movies.
  SPB,S.janaki,P.Susheela,PB Srinivas,Mano -- All telugu
  KJY,jayachandran,Chitra,MinMini,Swarnaltha -- All Malayalam .
  The funniest Part is tamilians are called conservatives and don't accept people from other areas.
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Mon Jan 29 23:20:58 EST 2001
  
  vtv,
  
  I think you have not seen the Fliflo's posting on list of singers introduced by IR (exceeds 100). Kannai moodik kondaal thoonguvathaaka artham aakaathu :-)
  
  The treatment has already started to IR, with the flops of KR and YSR... This statement is highly unwaranted and has no meaning here. If you have not listened to Deena or Vaanjinaathan or Ullam Kollai Poguthe... They each seem to have more than 5 films. Who is the looser now :-)
  
  Also Please see Gangu Boy's posting for your question.
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.195) on: Mon Jan 29 23:34:54 EST 2001
  
  beautiful spb is compared with udit....
  
  the stress in the matter is diction by those from hindi films not their mother-tongue as such.
  
  tell me how spb/kjy/pj/chitra/swarnalatha/janaki killed tamizh and how well udit/sadhana/sukhwinder prononuced and enhanced tamizh....come on guys dont go too much....
  
  i'll be one of those first who wud congratulate udit/sadhana if their tamizh diction is fine....
  
  see the dedication of spb, when he sings tamizh song he pronounces the word as in tamizh; if the same word is in telegu he pronounces as telegus do. listen to "mai(n) nay pyar kiya", listen to his dedication to pronounce hindi words as a native singer pronounces, he doesnt sound like a southy....the only thing u feel different in that song is the unexpected spb voice in those hindi songs...otherwise it was a pucca hindi dicition. that is what the dedication of spb/janaki/pj/chitra. KJY has a problem of pronouncing 'La' in some/many songs; but it is not because of he is a mallu...coz malayaalam too has all the three la,La,zha and they are the one who use zha more than v, thamizhs. so the 'La' pronounciation might be problem of KJY as a person and not as a mallu.
  
  now tell me how dedicated are the singers from present days hindi films. had kishore/rafi et. al were asked to sing in tamizh they might have showed some dedication which might be faaaaaar faaaaar better than these present days hindi singers....but present days hindi singers r hopeless...no dedication/devotion at all. even asha could be blamed a bit but she is far better than sadhanas...
  
  so blaming IR for killing tamizh by introducing(or using/overusing) likes of spb is, imho, nonsense....
  
  IR did not set/followed any bad precedence by introducing/using/overusing likes of spb/kjy/janaki et al.
  
  if rahamaan has enhanced any bad precedence set/followed by IR then this is not the ball...
  
  imho IR did not compromise on diction...
  
  you've picked wrong coin...try some other....
  
  
  
• From: Rajeev (@ 203.199.236.202) on: Wed Jan 31 08:59:20 EST 2001
  
  Iam glad there are so many to opt for clear tamil diction and clean tamil voices in tamil film music.
  Well , Ganguboy, Kupps, STS - What were you guys doing all these days? Why not write to your favourite MDs like IR and start introducing tamil voices as ARR did with Nithyashree, Sivasidambaram, Suresh Peters, Srinivas - all natives of tamilnadu, instead of beating about the bush with explanations.
  Dont forget IRs Thalabathi had "Yamunai Aatrile", HeyRam song of Jagjithsingh etc, are unforgivable basd precedence. ARRahmans music has reached international status and his Indian songs have got to get a national identity with north voices in south. We are sure to appreciate if he introduces south voices in north, which he has surely done with Swarnalatha, Chithra, Srinivas etc..
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Wed Jan 31 09:45:36 EST 2001
  
  Rajeev:
  
  The entire industry is responsible (not just the MDs) for bad-thamizh pronunciation. Please don't make this an ARR vs. IR issue - even if you claim somebody else started it, pray do not continue. As thenaali (kamal) said, the TV announcers use 'epdi, evlo' type thamizh. The movie making business features many un/under educated participants - actors, actresses, directors, asst. directors (ex edupidi)- so the degeneration happens quickly and with certainty.
  
  Many Directors/Actors/Actresses interfere in areas in which they have no expertise, the making of a song for example (one might argue that they should not interfere in moviemaking either):-)
  
  If the problem is due to any one single person, a letter, phone call, or personal conversation may be the first step towards a solution. No Sir! It is a degeneration in the entire business. Only a public protest can be effective.
  
  Another point - This is NOT about giving opportunity to thamizh singers. This is about giving opportunity to "thamizh" irresepective of the singer.
  
  
• From: BPS (@ 38.32.76.188) on: Fri Feb 2 20:27:06 EST 2001
  
  Hi,
  I am the webmaster of the official Sirkali Home Page. This is to inform fans of Drs. Sirkali that the web address has changed from
  
  http://www.icdc.com/~sirkali (or w3)
  
  to
  
  http://www.sirkali.org
  
  Please change your bookmarks to point to this new link.
  
  Thank You very much,
  Balaji Pratap Sirkali
  http://www.sirkali.org
  balaji_p_sirkali@hotmail.com
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.195) on: Sat Feb 3 00:06:07 EST 2001
  
  Rajeev,
  
  I think I wasn't clear enough to stress my point in my earlier posting. I was not blaming any MD, including ARR. I do not want to do so, that is not my aim. You may go thru some threads in this page and search-in my minimal contribution(?!) in this page. Never ever I want(ed) to blame a MD. I have a soft corner for IR. It is purely my..my love for his music. Hence I never wanted to impose it on anybody. I refrained from saying IR is the God, ARR sucks big time or viceversa or MSV is the God others are demons etc etc.
  
  In your or some posting I saw something which directly/indirectly meant "IR compromised in diction". It is not the fact. He did not compromise in the diction unless and otherwise the film situation wanted (something like a foreigner singing, or a drunkard singing). This kind of compromise was done even by his preceeding greats like MSVs, GR and all. But just for the sake of introducing a singer he had seldom compromised in diction.
  
  Lets take Mithali for our discussion. Thalapathi is relatively new movie. The song yamunai aatrilae eera kaatrilae does not have any diction problem. It is as good as one native speaker singing the song. It may be IR's insistence or Mithali's devotion/dedication, but the end result is 'the diction in that song was not compromised'.
  
  In my earlier posting, I was pointing to sukwindher singh, udit narayan et al. It happens so they are introduced by ARR. But still I was not blaming him. I was saying the singers should have devotion/dedication to a language in order to do justice to the song & language. To emphasize that point I was refering to Rafi and Kishore, because I feel they were dedicated to their profession. I feel singers like udit, sadhana sargam et al DO NOT have that much dedication to a language so that it does justice to the song. Nowhere here I was referring to ARR.
  
  Coming back to IR, I had read some interviews and articles long back which says that MD(IR)-Director-lyricists (KD,VM, Vaale), in those days were insisting upon singers to pronounce the words correctly(with respect to tamizh). If you remember the controversy between VM and KJY, it crept up during the peak periods of IR that too in film(s) which had IR as MD. The fight was solved/subdued pointing that KJY has much devotion/dedication to tamizh and it cannot be faulted to his dedication. Because, again, if you happen to hear KJY classical renditions,e-g, thayae yesodha undhan aayar kulathudhitha in that song he will sing indha vaiyagathil or pillai it should have been sung as indha vaiyagathil or piLLai (here L as in the word "PaLLam" (hole/shallow) and l as in palan (result/fruit).
  
  SPB, SJ had never compromised in correctly pronuncing la, La and zha of tamizh. IR never made them to compromise in the diction.
  
  Even the Ajoy chakraborthy who sang isayil thodangudhamaa virahanaadagamae of Hey!Ram did not have diction problem in spelling the word "kiLigaLae". He spelt it as we tamizhs do(kiLihaLae). You may feel it awkward bcos of the ACCENT and definitely not because of PRONOUNCIATION/DICTION. The Accent is Bengalish. Whereas in the case of sadhana/udit there IS A PROBLEM OF PRONOUNCIATION itself.
  
  Having these things in the mind I wrote my earlier posting. I don't have to write to my favourite MD IR to watch out his singers for Diction. It is none of my job. IR has been in the field for about 25 years and having listened to his music I came to this conclusion. He had indeed kept the trend of his predecessors in making the singer not having the diction problem.
  
  I hope I made myself clear. Even after this if I'm not clear. Just forget all my postings, they are of no use. I beg your pardon for being unclear.
  
  -kupps
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.195) on: Sat Feb 3 00:12:48 EST 2001
  
  one more point...sirgazhi sivachidambaram is NOT INTRODUCED now, by ARR. He was long back introduced by MSV (if i'm not wrong). Please listen to the song from mrudhanga chakravarthy (god, i forgot the song).
  
  Well suresh peters (the GREEN tamizhan) sings tamizh as if it were sung by a T.V. Show (female)compere.
  
  

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