Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and Background Musically Challenged?
Topic started by Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.73.97) on Sun Oct 29 01:31:55 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
A great music director should be known for his/her trick on all trades when it comes to music. But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music. Even Deva and SAR do better job than him. What about BGM he plays the songs repeatedly. Deva does a better job atleast copying from Titanic or BraveHeart. What happened to songs based out of Raagas there also he lacks knowledge. What about his singing style man. Drs recommend his "Vandemataram" to clear Constibation than bringing out patriotism.
Discuss this fake, self promoting and copying star and remove his masquerade.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Tue Oct 31 13:50:48 EST 2000
prakash - My credentials :
2 kathu : I have 2 ears, these ears behave like ears, not one day they have behaved like eyes,
they dont see the sound source they hear!...thats all.
U, that was good posting, but i doubt how far it will reach.
- From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1)
on: Tue Oct 31 13:51:23 EST 2000
"The rustic feel you’re talking about is IR’s or Malaysia Vasudevan’s rustic voice; yes, they do sound uncultured and very raw. If that’s your criteria for folk music, fine. But why should that be ARR’s criteria for folk music?"
If there is no common criteria for folk music then why is everybody wasting their time here ?
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Tue Oct 31 13:56:19 EST 2000
pg: why wasting?, , you are reading most of the postings for some reason or other right. we are just like you
- From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:03:10 EST 2000
fan :
everybody includes me. :-)
If you ask what is folk music, Udhaya says his criteria is different from others criteria there is no common ground for a discussion.
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:12:59 EST 2000
so, pg...Udhaya gave us the answer,
music is very subjective, folk music for you might not be folk for me.
IMHO:
The folk music tradition is highly influenced by the classical culture in terms of the ragas.
Some of the Rajasthani folk songs or Marathi bhajans are based on the famous Mand raga.
Arr uses more north Indian folk, it need not be always from tamilnadu folk,
Hope you got it.
Basically many here see things sentimentally,
there is group which sees things logically, I like to part of the second group.
I vote U to be the of captain of logical side :)
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:13:13 EST 2000
Udhaya,
If you are happy with just changing the sound is "putting a new spin on a tired genre" I dont want to go argue further. I am also not sure how pronounciation is related to recording. Again,I am not sure whether you followed the discussion on recording (in another thread). Why does each and every instrument have to be so clear ? Is that how it sounds in an orchestral music ?
Re: synthesizers and KM. I am not here to defend IR but only to put my observation of ARR's style. I think that ARR thrives on new voices, modified sounds, sequencer recordings.
Re: BGM. "I dont see BGM as an evidence of musical ability". Our opinions differ here.
I will try not to be upset over your statements hinting that all I want is put ARR down or do not enjoy music from various sources.
- From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:20:00 EST 2000
"The folk music tradition is highly influenced by the classical culture in terms of the ragas.Some of the Rajasthani folk songs or Marathi bhajans are based on the famous Mand raga."
It should be the other way around. Same goes for Carnatic music. Its roots are in the folk music.
"Arr uses more north Indian folk, it need not be always from tamilnadu folk,"
Now you are contributing to the thread. Not when you said "MSV is the king of melody" or "ARR cut a song with MJ blah ..blah ..". These are just flame baiters.
- From: Karthik (@ 24.26.25.180)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:27:48 EST 2000
A sort of under-embellishment ....
Oh, so now under-embellishment is the superior thing musically? Hold on a minute, I have to go laugh my butt off………….okay, I’m back, that was hilarious, man. Thanks.
Udhaya, that was strongly offensive! Yes, I think embellishing a song to the right extent is an art. And (I am going to leave the IMO out here, everything everybody states here is an opinion!), ARR tends to over-embellish his songs. I enjoy it when he does it to other songs, but when he over-embellishes his folk songs, they sound jarring to me!
Entirely your opinion not an ounce of fact in it.
You bet! Music is such a subjective thing and there are no absolute truths or facts. All of us here just state opinions Or is it that things become a fact just because some "senior DFer" states them?
Arr uses more north Indian folk, it need not be always from tamilnadu folk
Srikanth, I thought we are only discussing tamil folk here. I have not listened to North Indian folk enough to comment on this.
And finally, Udhaya, it would be great if you could tone your posts down a little bit,
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:28:34 EST 2000
kiru, Every music genre has its own birth and death.Carnatic came from folk or vice versa is thread in forum-hub, i dont want to ponder into it.
btw: Cutting an album with MJ - "King of pop" is an life time oppurtunity for any musician.
my statement of msv is king of melody is much better than your statement of saying i want to bring down arr.
Now it is time for you to contribute.
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:33:31 EST 2000
Srikanth,
I thought we are only discussing tamil folk here.
come on the title reads village!...not villages of tamilnadu or tamil folk music.
I have not listened to North Indian folk enough to comment on this.
so who is to blame --- arr?
- From: Music fan (@ 208.154.130.13)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:34:25 EST 2000
This thread is again a "big" joke. IR fans and ARR fans fighting for no reason. IR fans, I am an IR fan, I am repeatedly telling you folks, don't compare IR and ARR. They belong to two different generations. IR is a genius, we all agree. His music does not have any boundaries. But ARR fans may not agree to that notion because their TASTE IS DIFFERENT. What is the point in trying to convince them and ending up criticizing and insulting IR? Every human being is unique and he has his own taste as regards arts and music. So, it is very difficult to ask anyone to listen to only a particular genre/person's music nor than you can say that you should be able to listen to any music. Taste is very subjective. So, fans of music, if you like IR's or ARR's music, just enjoy the same and be happy. My request is, don't be perturbed and do not perturb anyone.
- From: Udhaya (@ 207.218.69.42)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:44:40 EST 2000
All of us here just state opinions Or is it that things become a fact just because some "senior DFer" states them?
When I list Carnatic ragam based songs by ARR, it's a fact, not my opinion. When I say something is folk and you say that's not folk to you, then we're on murky ground because what is folk is harder to gauge than what is Carnatic ragam and we get subjective. I posted rebuttals for every claim that I felt wasn't substantiated. If you see me passing on opinions as fact, highlight it for me. I never ask for special privilege. If you found my laughter offensive, I'm sorry. But remarks about constipation don't offend you huh? I guess we differ in what's offensive too. I have not taken a cheap shot at anybody nor have I made degrading remarks personally here. What do I need to tone down? When a thread is started with the sole purpose of ridiculing an artist(and that too without facts or logic) and a parade of irrelevant posts follow in support, what am I supposed to tone down? This thread is cheesy, Swiss cheesy to be precise for all the holes in it.
Kiru,
I said "many here" don't listen to a variety of music. If you feel compelled to include yourself among this many, then please do try not to be offended, okay?
- From: Karthik (@ 24.26.25.180)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:50:10 EST 2000
Udhaya, there have been numerous threads which started off on the wrong foot, but have yielded meaningful discussions. I am trying to argue dispassionately here ... it is passion that scre*ws up most IR vs ARR threads.
Did'nt you do a series of symposiums that compared VM and Kannadasan ... Comparisons are interesting if done in the right spirit without animosity. But unfortunately for this forum, we have never had an objective discussion on the musical aspects of IR vs ARR. Go back a little into the old responses here, and you would see that I was the first to defend ARR in this thread!
Srikanth - I did'nt know we were trying to assign blame here :(
- From: Music fan (@ 208.154.130.13)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:56:51 EST 2000
Udhaya:
How can you say that many here do not listen to varieties of music? Do you know telepathy ?
Just because you say here that you listen to all kinds of music, doesn't make you superior and that does not show that others have bad taste in music. That shows your rudeness and haughtiness.
- From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35)
on: Tue Oct 31 14:59:51 EST 2000
karthck, No harm intended , sorry you mistook me.
from start this thread is a negative one, our friend "bhagavathar" (who reminds me of our good old friend athi) was firing left and right without any logical point, trend and i just defended saying this is not correct.,
later you came in told i am talking just for the sake, when ever I went into proper discussion, some ir fan will come and pass a comment and kill the flow.
finally i have asked who to blame i did point at you!..at all,
we have been fed with (only)tamil folk by our early composers, arr took us out of this and he is mixing many forms of Indian music, arr uses north indian music more than south indian, that is one of the reason he is able to run his show in north.
Hope you get me.
- From: Udhaya (@ 207.218.69.111)
on: Tue Oct 31 15:16:46 EST 2000
Music fan,
I don't need telepathy, just years of observation of statements made by many here that IR is the best in the world and that that's all the music they need.
To be haughty, my statement would have put others down and praised myself. I was genuinely expressing a sigh of sadness that many don't listen to a variety of music.
We have crossed before when you purposely distracted the flow of one thread to go on praising IR. If you want to make this personal, let's go. I'm game for it. But this forum is not the arena for it. If you make it one, I will not shy away from it, remember that.
All,
This thread raised an issue and only now the other side has had the say. If you want one-sided opinions, go to a thread started by some die-hard long time ago. I think it's called "Raja we love you" or something. If my rebuttal hurts your feelings, then maybe you should keep your comments to e-mails or fan groups not a public forum where a contrary opinion is customary and essential.
Love, peace, hugs and kisses,
Udhaya
- From: Music fan (@ 208.154.130.13)
on: Tue Oct 31 15:19:29 EST 2000
fan:
If you say, ARR gives more Hindi songs, I would say that it is IR who gave more tamil folk music than any other Southern MD. His songs are more aimed at tamil folk. Also, he also given lot of tribal songs in Tamil, Kannada, Telugu and Malayalam which MSV or ARR have not done. MSV and ARR's songs are more urbanized and hence did not reach the villages much as IR's music did. IR's music is more earthy and has maN vaLam. So, has he acheived any lesser than ARR? If he is displaying our customs and traditions in our music, is it not to be admired and respected? Can he become great only if he does Hindi music or Western music?
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