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Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and Background Musically Challenged?

Topic started by Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.73.97) on Sun Oct 29 01:31:55 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A great music director should be known for his/her trick on all trades when it comes to music. But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music. Even Deva and SAR do better job than him. What about BGM he plays the songs repeatedly. Deva does a better job atleast copying from Titanic or BraveHeart. What happened to songs based out of Raagas there also he lacks knowledge. What about his singing style man. Drs recommend his "Vandemataram" to clear Constibation than bringing out patriotism.

Discuss this fake, self promoting and copying star and remove his masquerade.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Oct 31 12:38:09 EST 2000
  
  
  ARR wants to be identified with good music which anyone of most age groups can appreciate.His modernisation doesn't kill any authencity of any genre..
  
  Trend yes, 100% true, one of the main reason he is on top today.
  
  
  also trend:
  Now you see the reason why I posted
  "what does folk music mean?"
  
  later this went to some unwanted posting asking what is music etc etc, clearly spoling the discussion.
  
  We would see this clearly if we keep a open mind instead of having someone's music as the reference to judge ARR's music.
  I am ready , how about others?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Tue Oct 31 12:58:48 EST 2000
  
  Prakash,
  
  Villagele irunthu vanthavaru village music nalla poduvar.Aana, oru(ille neraiya)padi yeri ella musicleyum kalakkarar.Adhudhana unga logic.Kalakkiteenga.-)
  
  "These sort of statements just makes the credentials of those persons making the statement a bit of suspect."
  
  You should learn to refrain from making personal statements like this.
  
  Karthik,
  
  I listen to a song as it is.Do you want me to delude myself in thinking or somehow convince myself that these two songs are similar?
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Tue Oct 31 13:13:36 EST 2000
  
  Prakash,
  you are talking about nativity!...i think.
  
  If you ask kadri to play a jazz piece, no doubt he will play it well, but he will get some nativity by adding some "brigas" (sorry cannot help , I have to use these words).
  
  this is called nativity,
  
  but it does not certify that you will be the best always just for the reason that you are native... something like Tamilians in Singapore speak much better tamil than people from tamil nadu.
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 207.218.69.16) on: Tue Oct 31 13:24:20 EST 2000
  
  So whatever given in the list in the last 8 years Rahman given Carnatic based hits and Village oriented hits u can count with your 10 fingers. Whats there to prove.
  
  Bhagavathar,
  I’ll tell you what it proves. It proves that when you’re sidelined in a debate that you set up, you go after different criteria. From what the thread proposed, now you’re hiding behind the number of movies as the criteria to show that ARR is not up to mark. This was not the original theory, the original theory was that he was Carnatic music-challenged. Since I blew this theory wide open you’re going after other defenses. The songs I’ve listed are more than enough to serve as examples. Examples, by their very definition need only be a few. What do you want, an inventory of his entire collection?
  
  But in "Mari Mari Ninae" song in movie Sindu Bairavi originally composed in different Raaga changed altogether to Sarumathi. This shows IR is knowledgable with Raagas.
  
  Oh so, blending ragams is the new criteria now? The song “Ennavalae” used so many ragams that Suppudu couldn’t figure out what ragam it was. Of course, Suppudu considered that as a bad thing, but the same thing done by IR you have said is a good thing. It all depends where you stand doesn’t it? You’re not seriously discussing merits here, you’re just trying to beef up your bias. I see right through you. Forget you. I shouldn’t have taken you for a serious debater of merits.
  
  
  G. Kuppusamy,
  You were ambivalent throughout that I couldn’t figure out what your point was. You start out saying you support people who say ARR folk songs aren’t good. Then you say ARR’s “Pachchaikkili paadum paattu” is a good folk song. And then you fault ARR’s songs for being Rehmaanish. So your favorite MD must be Deva because he sounds like everybody else. Is this your criteria? Come on. I appreciate the tone of your post though.
  And must you re-quote the anal quote by Bhagavathar who shows right off where he comes from. By the way, the word is spelled as constipation.
  
  Prakash,
  
  I think the manvaasanai in vairamuthu's lyrics ,to a great extent,salvaged ARR's 'folk music'.take away his lyrics and ARR stands there exposed to his limitations in this genre of music.
  Well, explain to me what these abstract limitations are musically? Other than the fact that you don’t like where it came from, what else is there?
  
  even to claim MSV's ammadi no. is better than IR's no-well this is just musical blashpemy at its worst!I think even MSV will be embarrassed if he is told that.These sort of statements just makes the credentials of those persons making the statement a bit of suspect.
  
  Why is it blasphemy? If Bagavathar can make his anal references and you have the right to call IR as the Supreme (won’t Diana Ross sue?) why shouldn’t fan have the right to say his piece? All of you are giving your opinions right? This is a public forum, not the IR republic.
  
  Why dont we all wind up all these threads and think of starting a web site called 'www.IR vs ARR.com', as it seems whatever is the purpose of any thread it invariably swings to this direction!
  
  It invariably swings in this direction because every post drags in this comparison, including yours.
  
  Kiru,
  Kuppu brought out a very good point - pronounciation. There's another aspect of ARR's music which is the usage/sound of instruments - they are 'modified' to tone down their ethnicity (eg. Alangatti from Thenali).
  
  How do you know that toning down their ethnicity is ARR’s intent? Can you read his mind? How about putting a new spin on a tired genre? Perhaps you are perfectly content with the folk genre left alone as it is. That’s your prerogative. This accent, pronunciation can also be called precise mixing and clarity in production that were never there before. The sounds are so clear you can pick out every instrument. Since when is modernizing the curse? Did you feel this way when IR brought synthesizers into TFM? That would have been viewed as a breath of fresh air by IR right? Come on.
  
  And fortunately enough for him these techniques sell quite a number of albums for him.
  Didn’t IR sell a lot of “Kaadhalukku Mariyaadhai” albums with “Ennai Thaalaatta Varuvaaloa” an entirely electronic song? Why is he aping the yuppie trend? Or maybe when IR does it he’s just showing his prowess with electronic music too right?
  
  I think to do BGM one needs a good understanding of music and its relatioship with emotions. Is this not a requirement for song making?
  
  No. His songs already show a great understanding of emotions and music’s relationship with it. Maybe ARR doesn’t care to do scores. That’s his prerogative. He outsources the score for his movies I’ve heard. Even IR had MSV and Gangai Amaran do much of the scores for his movies in the 80s when he did 100 movies a month sometimes. Do you believe that he handscripted every movie’s BGM? I don’t see BGM as indicative of musical ability. But if you want to include that as a category, go ahead and chalk one up against ARR.
  
  Karthik,
  I think lyrics have a large role to play in the "folkishness" of ARR's songs. I cant put a finger on what folk music is exactly, but I would say Raja's folk songs have that rough, unpolished rustic feel to them that the Rahman songs listed here lack.
  
  The rustic feel you’re talking about is IR’s or Malaysia Vasudevan’s rustic voice; yes, they do sound uncultured and very raw. If that’s your criteria for folk music, fine. But why should that be ARR’s criteria for folk music?
  
  A sort of under-embellishment ....
  Oh, so now under-embellishment is the superior thing musically? Hold on a minute, I have to go laugh my butt off………….okay, I’m back, that was hilarious, man. Thanks.
  
  you can play the tune of most of Raja's folk songs to me, and I will know it is a folk song.
  
  Play the first few seconds of the flute and percussion in “Kurukku siruththavalae” and any TFM listener will tell you it’s a folk song.
  
  But Rahmans folk songs - they always give me the feeling that they have been worked on, that the folkish feel has been forced on us. And combine this with his tendency to make songs that dont appeal only to a certain segment, and you have less than authentic folk.
  
  Entirely your opinion not an ounce of fact in it.
  
  And proof of his limited repertoire in this department is evident in the fact that whenever I sing "Un Aayul regai ellam en uLLangaiyil oduthadi" from "Nee Kattum" I automatically switch over to "Ulagum Sezhikkanum" from "Mari Mazhai peyyatho" ... very similar sounding songs.
  
  You automatically switch over, I don’t. See, it’s your experience and not a universal truth. Now we’re going after similar sounding songs? I can list dozens done by your favorite MD, but that’s not what this thread is about is it?
  
  If you love Ilayaraja’s music, why don’t you indulge in threads like “Analysis of Maestro’s works” where IR’s talent is celebrated. How come so many of you feel that only by dragging down another artist like ARR you can show your appreciation of IR’s music? This is not politics. There doesn’t need to be a bipartisan fixation in music. Cherish good music in every form, is that so hard? You know, just this morning, I’ve listened to parts of Thenali, The Red Violin soundtrack and one of those 70’s CDs with songs by MSV, IR and others. The fact that many of you won’t feel this satisfaction from different music is very sad to me.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 207.218.69.16) on: Tue Oct 31 13:25:28 EST 2000
  
  closing italics
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ 158.106.50.3) on: Tue Oct 31 13:25:44 EST 2000
  
  Trend,
  
  "I don't think BGM and songs are related."
  
  They are. Listen to the BGMs (by Sabesh-Murali?) of recent ARR movies. May be that's a new 'trend':-))
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Tue Oct 31 13:34:07 EST 2000
  
  Ravy,
  
  What I was saying was the song making and BGM capability need not be in par with each other.
  
  Please read Udhaya's posting too.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Ganesh (@ 206.40.50.1) on: Tue Oct 31 13:46:04 EST 2000
  
  
  Digression ---
  
  Udaya,
  
  I have been reading your posts for sometime, you are one of the excellent debaters! I cant think of better rebuttals for such illogical claims!
  
  End Digression
  
  Patrons of this thread you can continue bashing ARR to your hearts content.
  
  

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