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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 12:50:58 EDT 2003
  
  Thanks to !!!! also
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.149) on: Fri Jul 18 15:09:44 EDT 2003
  
  MusicisLife, Jag , xsl and Vatsa
  
  Thanks for some decent postings!
  
  Jag:
  
  We (ARR fans) are not trying to prove that ARR is the greatest or even that ARR is better than IR!
  
  We are just coming in defense of ARR for all the unjust accusations on Boys and in general when people accuse him for being western thats all. So when you bring in the NSync analogy and ask "Does this mean NSync is the most brilliant group?" I think it is out of place!
  
  Because we are not even trying to prove that ARR is the most brilliant in India! We are defending his style of music and his objective of being very western!
  
  Vatsa:
  
  It is good to see that you accept that ARR and IR are both different in their objectives and style and that there is nothing wrong in that!
  
  
  THats my whole point in all the posts! I dont condemn IR for being very original and faithful to the genres of music he touches. I think he shud stick to it!
  
  Same way I dont think ARR shud be condemned for being western in all his ongs. Thats his style and let him alone!
  
  MusicIsLife:
  
  I wont agree that HeyRam is the last quality album from IR. I liked Azhagi, Kasi and Julee Ganapathy a lot!
  
  
  xsl:
  
  Infact if you read my posts I have mentioned that IR has moulded carnatic, folk forms into mainstream cinema so that ordinary tfm fans can appreciate it!
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.149) on: Fri Jul 18 15:28:57 EDT 2003
  
  rajasaranam
  
  you have made so many half-baked attempts in trying to convince me!
  
  First you started with Thee Thee and I argued that pure musical means are enough to bring passion.(Also accepted that IR too can do that and has done that). Unfortunately that did not satisfy you because you are a person who is stubborn in proving IR > ARR in terms of greatness
  
  I say IR = ARR in greatness!
  
  
  Then you went so depp with your theories and the latest being Karagattam!
  
  How can I accept your statement when I have seen a Karagattam dance and never thought it was vulgar????
  
  Please tell me how?! Should I lie to my conscience and say "Yes Karagattam was vulgar" a 1000 times?
  
  Whatever argument you have given to defend IR's orgasms were not sound even if they were valid. So how can I not be stubborn in pointing out the pathetic defence of unwanted elements in IR's music?
  
  About the lyrics:
  I can understand the lyrics in "Raja Rajadhi", but what I am saying is that lyrics in IR era was harder to comprehend that the PRE-IR Era
  
  I also accepted that in ARR-Era lyrics are so hard to comprehend. So now tell me who is stubborn.
  
  Have you accepted a single criticism on IR so far?? How can you call me stubborn??
  
  ALl I tried to say is that
  
  1. Pre-IR Era: very clear and audible beautiful lyrics
  
  2. IR-Era: clear and good lyrics
  
  3. ARR-Era: not clear and bad lyrics
  
  So 1 is better than 2
  and 2 is better than 3
  
  If you cannot accept dont call me stubborn because I accept ARR's deficiency!
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 15:30:04 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  I did not classify Azhagi or Kasi or Julie Ganapathy as bad albums, probably I want more or i am too stubborn in my mind to classify some of them as IR's Gr8st in my heart.
  
  Anyways i was reading through your post in another "who is doing thangarbachan next movie"
  
  The only thing that concerns me about kid telling what is a good song?
  If we dont promote the Tamil Culture and music, which I have very limited knowledge, dont you think we will be left out of what really is a good music identity we belong to?. I would not care what my kid would say, but still get the tradition to them which includes music.
  I already feel I am losing touch with my land, country.
  
  P.S.
  I am gr8 fan of Metallica, i just watched their concert with Limp Bizkit, this month i am going to the Ozzfest and next month I will at the Def Leppard Concert.
  
  Anyways i would not mind my kid being a Metal-Music fan!!!
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.149) on: Fri Jul 18 15:47:03 EDT 2003
  
  Dont you think the kids will be more receptive when you initially feed them the Indianish song with western appael?
  
  And it is also not that easy to styuff up some vetry authentic and complex indian music on kids grown aboroad and forcing them to listen.
  
  remember that these NRI kids are making a sacrifice by taking time away from hard-metal music and listening to a Taal or Lagaan or Uyire.
  
  Same way is it unreasonable if parents make the sacrifice to give them a westernised Indian song so that they too will identify with it??
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 16:04:28 EDT 2003
  
  I don't want to divert the topic sorry for this!
  Thanks !!!, Sambhu songs couple of them are good
  Dosedu... and kali...
  
  
• From: vetti (@ 128.148.68.57) on: Fri Jul 18 16:12:25 EDT 2003
  
  IR Greatness
  
  All music from his own. He grown the cinefield with the new comers rajini,kamal,Bharathiraja,maniratman,.....etc...
  
  He first proved the important of a MD in the history of the film industry. He showed him above any director,superstar,and big banner like AVM.
  
  Movies run just for him
  All the mohan,ramarajan, films,RV udayakumar,P.Vasu films etc...
  
  
  ARR greatness
  Only one.He become popular in north. He is a copycat and made new trend. He is the first MD left his trend to other MD's like HJ,VS,YSR.
  
  
  He made the great people to suck in the field.
  
  KKB-PP
  BR-Tajmahal
  MR-KM
  Superstar-Baba( ARR is the first MD gave the tune by telephone).
  
  Successively composed many years for the great albums like UDAYA,Parasuram,Kadalvirus etc..
  
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 16:13:50 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  Probably i will not agree to your arguments, My friend is a Tamilian from Malaysia. I have friends from Gujarat who grew up her in the US and some of them from Bombay!!
  
  They surely like Taal, bangra type music and all
  Still my friend's mother from Malaysia came down here and constantly listened to IR music (her being old), the kids started liking it and they want me to play it when they come to my place.
  
  The point here being not IR or ARR, but i would not agree it is complicated for the kids to comprehend, when there is all the exposure for Bangra, Hindi films and Hindi Music, as well as fusioned so-called Indian (Western) music here in the US, there is no authenticity or the raw feel for the kids to learn. So I surely would not agree to you, I might be stubborn, but I am just as happy in them learning Tamil Music as part of their culture, other Music they will get it through friends whether they want to follow it or listen to it is not my prerogative, I just want them to have the exposure.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 16:23:03 EDT 2003
  
  Ok anyways
  In my opinion:
  IR's Greatness:
  He is quick, knows nuances and timing, Clear vision, very strict disciplinarian (my friend used to play in IR's Orchestra), Visionary, Gained a lot of experience due to his speed. Made unknown people big with his ability as MD.
  
  IR's Weakness:
  His Mastery
  Overwhelming of Directors and other people
  Surely did indulge in other peoples work(this was a plus point in making some of the rookie directors big, like people from Satyajothi Movies)
  
  ARR's greatness:
  Knowing the pulse of the young generation
  Fusion of technology and Music
  Choosing the right projects and making sure all the big names always want him..
  
  ARR's weakness:
  Monotony of Music after a long wait (Boyz was different though i liked only one song)
  MTV's influence
  
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.160) on: Fri Jul 18 16:52:38 EDT 2003
  
  V and all,
  
  About introducing music to US born kids.
  We will be just delusioning ourselves if we say that IR's music might not appeal to them. There are plenty of hip songs by IR which have amazing appeal. Start with those and once they start appreciating the nuances they will themselves try to discover more of it. We cannot start with something like Thodarum and ask them to like every other IR's album. Something like My Dear Kuttichattan, Anjali, Agni Natchitaram would be a good starting point.
  
  Music tastes vary but people will recognize good music anywhere and of any kind. Why just US born kids, there are plenty of kids in Mumbai and other metros who are big on hard rock and other metal music. It's just the kind of environment they grow up in and the kind of exposure they get that determines their tastes (including peer pressure eg. something like , if I say I don't like ARR's music I might look like a dork to my friends ).
  
  I've known my roommate who was a hardcore fan of rock and pop music who liked one hip song from IR's Priyathama(telugu)( "gobillamma.." which had IR's trademark acoustic drum work) and one melodious song from ARR's Pudhiya Mugam (song: "kannulaku..." telugu version). But he would not listen to other hip hop Indian songs saying that he gets enough techno music from the western albums he listens. You would have thought the reverse would happen, i.e. IR's melody would have been preferred and ARR's hip songs would have been preferred. It's just the right mixture of exposure that is needed to hit people's pulses.
  
  ARR has done some seriously good orchestrization in Thiruda Thiruda, Pudhiya Mugam, Gentleman. The melodious songs from these movies are great but he is seldom doing such music nowadays. Something like "puthum pudhu bhoomi " , "netru illamai", "ennavalle.." would strike a better chord. He can't expect to be taken seriously with something like Boys or Parasuram. He better wake up and start being serious with his music or he is going to be just-another-talented-MD who had some good hits. I am really missing his work in guitar string loops which was quite good.
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 18:09:39 EDT 2003
  
  Jag!!
  I agree to your thoughts in this.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.57) on: Fri Jul 18 18:30:34 EDT 2003
  
  
  Musical merits of IR : His music is from his own.He made Tamil film Industry as the best through his music. What else you need?. He made several films box office hit with unfamed artists and director.
  
  IR Demerits : He was concentrated only in south and least least bothered about the North.
  
  
  Musical merits of ARR : The one which IR left he filled. I mean he famed in north with western copy.
  
  Demerit : A western copy cat.One of the worst incapable MD composing several years for the worst albums udaya parasuram kadalvirus etc..
  
  He gave tunes by telephone for the movie baba!!!.
  
  He need a big banner,director for making hit albums.
  
  He made the TF industry down
  
  

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