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dhooL.com

Topic started by bb (@ 24.4.254.104) on Tue Feb 20 03:21:22 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi! We've made a major addition to newtfmpage, and that is a big song bank. Dhool features thousands of songs for your listening pleasure. This site is a part of the newtfmpage.com - swara.com group. Together with newtfmpage, we wish to make this the best place to listen to tamil film songs online and know about tamil film music. Our collection includes old, new, famous, rare and unheard of songs. We are still fine tuning and fixing the database errors, so please bear with us. We value your feedback, and this will help us build the site better. Please post your comments below or mail to comments@newtfmpage.com.
This work was done by us (bb and RR) with MS and swara.com ravi.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: sriram (@ 163.181.251.9) on: Tue Sep 23 17:28:49 EDT 2003
  
  Raj - idhukku peru dhaan dict-choom dict-choom:-)
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Tue Sep 23 17:32:24 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz, do not pretend you know me as you pretend to know the english language. you are exposed and you are one hell of a hypocrite not even to consider that you could be wrong against the majority here. You go on to equate your friends to some critic in the Hindu. You have never even produced one evidence of the usage of the word diction. Please do not talk about honesty.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 17:36:25 EDT 2003
  
  rajaG -
  
  To talk about ragam thalam pallavi (inclusive of shruti, layam, prayogam) the people indeed have to be "knowledgeable" (I learn a lot from them, incidentally.)
  But to talk about simple things - like why is the ending in this word dropped, or what is this word (it sounds like neither this nor that) or isn'this inflection more that than this - all you have to know is the language, and know it correctly (and you don't even have to be a singer or musician :-))
  
  Oh, yes, the dogs did bark. But that only served to throw us all off the chase! :-)
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.203) on: Tue Sep 23 17:45:31 EDT 2003
  
  ummm..looking at all the posts so far - raagam thaanam pallavi seem to be far simple than the so called "simple things" like diction or the all encompassing "ALL you have to know is (just) the language" :-)
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.20.114) on: Tue Sep 23 17:49:02 EDT 2003
  
  rajaG
  "the dog did not bark" from The Silver Blaze?
  "that was odd -Holmes"
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 17:50:04 EDT 2003
  
  "Tamizh/Southern/Northern journalists in India (or anywhere else, if you can give examples) are also prone to following "assumptions" without making the effort confirm or ascertain "foreign" literary usage (this may also be a result of the fact that an "indian" is essentially bilingual, if not trilingual.) Should that be excused? Ignored?
  Are they right? Should I tell them? Why bother?
  Should I be surprised that this leaks into print? Does that in itself make it right?
  "
  
  Naaz, so now I am to assume that both the dictionary as well as all the Journalists in South India are wrong while blindly accept what you say as the norm? Great! What else have you got? :-) I have to agree with Ranga in that you cannot extend the benefit of doubt to other posters even a wee bit in spite of authentic proof furnished by everyone else. I am YET to see concrete proof from your side for any of your assumptions.
  
  "It is not about me being wrong or you being right (to reduce our discussion thus far to such a binary does not speak of intellectual maturity.) "
  
  This coming from someone who doesnt trust the integrity of people he is discussing with accusing them of misquoting or selective referencing and what not ..:-) Hmm..hypocrisy
  
  
  "What's more amplified (to me) than "chitra's diction" is the silence of other posters (informed and astute ones) with regards to the song. When people move on to Gowri Manohari and Dharmavathi or violin interludes and chorus, and don't say a word about voice and pronunciation or singing capability, you don't have to be a brainiac to see what's left un-addressed. And deliberately so.
  "
  
  That depends on what the listener's priorities are. Simple. There are far more positives in Chitra's singing for any of the listeners to be fixated with just one aspect-PRONUNCIATION and even in that examples of her "mistakes" have mostly been proven invalid in the past.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 18:28:46 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay -
  
  What more concrete proof do you want?
  Just take a close look at the word: Diction.
  And while you're at it also look up: Dictum, Dictate, Dictionary,Indict...If you still insist that those words refer "singing" - sorry guy, I have got nothing else. (I've given you the OED, SBD definitions, but those are flawed, as they don't mention "singing" anywhere - not even as the 10 or 12 meaning, even if it were "authorial" singing.)
  
  I guess the contrary example fell by the wayside ("Vaali's mezzo is superb.") Shoddy journalism (or linguistic grasp)is not exclusive to India. It is universal. So, The Hindu and "other" journals use the word "diction" the way you understand or recognise it. (They also use it "irregardless" of it being wrong.) I guess that must make it right.
  
  No, Vijay, don't "assume" anything. Seek it out for yourself. And don't settle for something only because it serves your purposes. Make sure it is - really,really RIGHT.
  
  I am glad you agree with RangA (and he with you.) Birds of a feather, I suppose (the majority is always right argument.) If that "strength in numbers" thing is the line that divides hypocrisy from honesty, truth from falsehood, approp from malaprop -
  Why would you wait up for me to give you the benefit of doubt? You are part of a crowd that's so sure about its sources and specifics - what should I say? Diction-less am I :-)
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 18:42:58 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz, the definition that I posted clearly includes the word "singing" and it is from 2 different sources on the net. Merriam and dictionary.com
  
  
  "Shoddy journalism (or linguistic grasp)is not exclusive to India. It is universal. So, The Hindu and "other" journals use the word "diction" the way you understand or recognise it. (They also use it "irregardless" of it being wrong.) I guess that must make it right. "
  
  Yeah right. They are all wrong, I guess.I mean eveyone of them is ignorant.
  
  In fact here is a book titled "A Handbook of Diction for Singers"
  http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0195120779.html
  
  Oh wait.. I know what you are going to say for this already..I know the author is ignorant and know nothing :-)
  
  "No, Vijay, don't "assume" anything. Seek it out for yourself. And don't settle for something only because it serves your purposes. Make sure it is - really,really RIGHT.
  "
  I am not the one who is assuming here. I have clearly backed my statements with published facts.
  
  And how would you know that you are "really really right"? Just because you say so? We have furnished enough proof of the word's meaning and its usage from diffeernt sources. Right now whats stopping you from seeing the facts clearly is just your own high self-esteem(read EGO). You seem to be a guy who always wants to have the last word in a discussion and I shall let you have it. I dont need to bother any further I guess. You are welcome to live in your own illusional world of "diction"s and contra"diction"s :-))
  
  
• From: SP (@ 67.64.214.214) on: Tue Sep 23 18:53:43 EDT 2003
  
  intha aangilEya saniyanungaLa othaikkanum. oor muzhukka saniyan pudicha mozhi-ya parappittaanunga.
  
  Thamizh paattu pathi pEsara edathula dictionary...sigh... agaraathi(vEra artham illappaa!) pathi pEsa vachittaanunga asingam pudichavanunga.
  
  "vaarthai uchcharippu"-nu "damil"-la sonnaa yaemmaa intha kuthal, kudaisal, nakkal, naiyaandi
  
  che che... naaraasamaa irukkuppaa :-)
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Tue Sep 23 18:56:12 EDT 2003
  
  nazzji, american heritage dictionary fourth edition says
  SYLLABICATION: dic·tion
  PRONUNCIATION: dkshn
  NOUN: 1. Choice and use of words in speech or writing. 2. Degree of clarity and distinctness of pronunciation in speech or singing; enunciation.
  
  and Merriam-webster says
  
  1 obsolete : verbal description
  2 : choice of words especially with regard to correctness, clearness, or effectiveness
  3 a : vocal expression : ENUNCIATION b : pronunciation and enunciation of words in singing
  
  The point to note here is that the meaning you suggest is given by both dictionaries as #1 (merriam says it is obsolete. So you must be a very old guy. Did you live in the period of shakesphere ?) it does not restrict it to that meaning alone. They both clearly refer singing along with speaking in the other meanings. For your information, many english words have more than one meaning and more than one usage. Just do not harp on 'What I said alone is right' monologue. Others could also be right. That means you pointing flaw at other's usage is wrong. Case closed.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ 206.97.63.112) on: Tue Sep 23 18:59:39 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz,vijay,MS,bb et al: I just wanted to see how far it goes! Diction is associated with singing. In this context it refers to enunciation. Obviously none of you had any exposure to formal training in music in the west. Nothing serious. One of my children was in the school choir. At the end of one performance, the teacher complimented him on his diction and suggested he consider music in college. She also recommended a course on 'Diction for singing' in the local university. My son did take music in college for fun, but piano and computer music.
  All you have to do is to visit some university website and browse the course listing in music . It will show a course on 'Diction in singing' for various languages. As you know, you need that course if you want to sing in French. Hope this settles it.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 19:01:13 EDT 2003
  
  Ranga you cannot assume that the dictionaries are right.. you have to really really really seek out the ultimate truth :-)))
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 23 19:03:45 EDT 2003
  
  Raj, why dont you address that JUST to Naaz? :-)
  
  FYI, I have already posted a link for a book on diction in singing written by a Western author
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 23 19:10:35 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay -
  
  Yeah, don't bother. I shouldn't have either. One can only talk linguistics to people who are genuinely interested in linguistics. I'll keep my Ego. And you can celebrate your selflessness :-)
  
  (BTW "The Handbook of Diction for Singers" - that's a good one. Please read the introduction blurb (I did.) It is about "teaching" english "speaking" singers how pronounce to german, french and italian. In other words (sic) - what to do with the "english" phonemes, and how to alter/enunciate them when dealing with german "words" and "sounds."
  The handbook provides them (the singers) with the "words" and how they "work" in those languages. Hence the title - "Handbook of ((French, German, Italian)Diction for Singers."
  So - is the diction the singer's? No, the diction is of the french, german and italian languages (and the author who wrote that book for singers.)
  The book teaches the singer to "pronounce" "express" and "elong/shorten" the foreign words (diction) in the "right" way.
  But why bother with such a distinction, especially when I don't know what I'm talking about?)
  
  
• From: prabhu (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Tue Sep 23 19:13:16 EDT 2003
  
  >>>I have some dear friends ....who constantly use words like "irregardless" when they mean "regardless", or phrases such as "That I can able to do" <<
  
  Vijay, that reminds me of a Chemistry teacher's classic: Each one take one one test tube and do the experiment separate separately!
  End dig....
  
  

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