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Vani Jayaram's songs

Topic started by avvaiyar (@ 203.116.61.132) on Wed Jan 27 02:29:28 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'm a new visitor to this website. I couldn't see anyone discussing about Vani Jayaram's songs.
Let me start this one.(It had been there previously pls. forgive me!)

"Ezhu swarangalukkul ethanai paadal..
Ithaya surangathul ethanai kelvi...
Vaazhum manitharukkul ethanai salanam.."

Wow! Beautiful voice!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Nov 30 00:39:40 EST 2001
  
  "That is pure propaganda. Subhash Jha has never ever uttered a critical opinion in any of his interviews/articles on the Mangeshkars - and I wonder why they should be beyond reproach? "
  
  Should they indeed be? :-) Why because their Hindi pron. is perfect?
  
  
  why cut out Hridaynath's profits by doing another album which might cut into the former's sales?
  
  HMs albums were never popular in Hindi or Marathi at all. His comp. have been more popular IN PAKISTAN!!!!!!!
  
  
  The reason VJ was not encouraged in Hindi may have other factors (politics of ethnicity - might be one of them) but it had nothing to do with her calibre or ability as a singer.
  
  
  Yes, but it had to do with her accent.
  
  
  
• From: kik (@ 207.0.105.147) on: Fri Nov 30 01:50:23 EST 2001
  
  Lata has sung numerous meera bhajans in films besides the HM albums and Silsila. Most of them sank without a trace or the films flopped - in fact, Silsila was itself a flop. The other films are Rajrani Meera (music: Bulo C Rani), Naubahar (music Roshan), and possibly Jhanak Jhanak Payal Bhaje (music Vasant Desai). With a track record like that, I'm not surprised if she refused to sing.
  
  
• From: naaz ahmed (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Nov 30 01:51:42 EST 2001
  
  I wish there was a response to my messages - not a
  REACTION. The first involves a thought, the second (which seems to usually be the case here) is rather more impetuous, if anything at all.
  First AVR: I was comparing the singing of VJ and KJY (who you believe to be singers who have a bad pronunciation) in Hindi to the singing of SS and HH in tamil. While I still maintain that VJs Hindi is impeccable, I must say that KJY's hindi attempts have been a lot more successful and "native" than Hariharan's in Tamil (and for all that Hariharan, I believe is from the south?)Place them side by side and you will know who is being biased and who is being objective.
  
  Secondly, let's just say the "accent" of these singers was so way-out bad that they actually facilitated their own easing out from Hindi. If this is a logical scenario - I Wonder why that is not the case with SS, KS, UD and HH in their Tamil forays. They seem to be thriving in Tamil music. I can think of two reasons: Either the Tamil public takes pride in the mere fact that "Mumbai" singers are singing in their language (never mind the singing or their diction). Or the Tamil public lacks the same pride in their own language - to expect singers who lend their voices to music to at least try their best to "authenticate" a closer resemblence to the language. Inference: perhaps tamil audiences are more tolerant (or ingratiating) while Hindi audiences are quick on the take with their dismissals and disdain. I can't wait for the day when the SS, UD, and PUs are shown the door (for the same reasons you claim VJ and KJY and SPB were - accent) out of southern film music. What's good for the goose certainly should be good for the gander?
  
  Regarding "Bias": Thank you Neel D. I did say in one of my earlier messges that VJ's Hindi pronunciation has been acknowledged by scholars of Hindi/Sanskrit to be closer to "Shudh". The issue of bias is subjective: I wonder how much one's own ethnicity affects one's preferences. Perhaps, you are passing a personal opinion by saying that the 3 LM-HM albums are way superior to VJ's Meera. If you had really paid attention to my message I did not pass any judgement on the LM-HM venture. I was merely suggesting that the P.RS/VJ effort in Meera was just as good. If need be I can go into a musical analysis of why I say so. But let me spare you that for now.
  
  No I am not passing a "personal" opinion by dissing the Tamil of SS HH and UD. Ask a Tamil speaker (perhaps from Pune) and they will tell you that yes, there is a remarkable difference. This is not to "disqualify" the merits of the "voice" of those singers. Just a point about enunciation (the same one you make about VJ's Hindi).
  
  I have read the biographies. None of them is an "authorised" biography. I am sure you are aware of what that means.
  
  Neel D: Yes, the song from Silsila may have come a couple of years later. And yes it was just one song. I was contesting the logic for refusal which was attributed to Lata: that she couldn't as she was committed to hriday's album. Whether it is one song or a whole album - if it is an issue of principle - wouldn't you say it should have remained so? This is precisely why I think the whole "lata turned down Pt.Ravi Shankar" thing is more myth than fact. Never mind what the so-called unauthorised "biographers" claim. Secondly, Lata's stature surely does not depend on ONE album, does it? So why the big fuss?
  
  Another thing: The mangeshkar monopoly is a well-known fact. Interesting how Mr.Jha never asks Lata (in his several interviews)about this. Many singers ( her own sister Asha, and VJ among others) have gone on record saying that they had a tough time with the politics of the mangeshkars. No they should not be reproached for their Hindi pronunciation (though Lata in the early days of her career was criticised for sounding a touch "marathi". Look it up. Feroze Rangoonwala - Times of India film critic in his book on Indian Cinema )but for their reluctance to make room for other singers - who were just as talented and hard-working. Nobody asks this: Why should every singer be a Lata? Can't they just be a Vani or a Uma or a Kavita?
  
  About the 3 "patchless" Meeras: Hridaynath's Meera Bhajans got a lot of airtime on "Rang Tarang" for many years - an afternoon 2-3pm programme on AIR.
  
  Listen up tamil makkal (and other tamil speakers): Accent is apparently a problem for Mumbai listeners. Isn't it about time it was for the Chennai listeners?
  
  
  
  
• From: naaz ahmed (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Nov 30 02:22:59 EST 2001
  
  Hi Neel D:
  
  Do you know the film for this song: "Soppanathil Sindhu Padithaen..." It was a Sivaji-Sujatha starrer (although the song was picturised on Sumalatha and Sarath Babu...I think) A VJ-SPB duet - the music was by MSV. I've been wracking my brain to place the film - but no luck so far.
  
  Talking of melting: The emphasis of light intoxication on the word "Bothai" by Vani in the song Yarathu Sollamal Nejalli Povathu - is something to treasure. Suggestive without being Vulgar - I guess that has always been a VJ trademark.
  
  Thank you for your cross-references Kik. Appreciate it a lot.
  
  Naaz
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Nov 30 02:34:24 EST 2001
  
  kik:
  
  JJPB was NOT a flop. Yes - Rajrani Meera was. Naubahar was NOT.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Nov 30 02:50:23 EST 2001
  
  While I still maintain that VJs Hindi is impeccable
  
  Maybe because she pronounces "karna fakiri phir kya dilgiri" as "kArna fakeeeeeeeeereeeeeee pheeeeeeer kya dilgeeereeeeeeeeee". :-))))
  
  So if being objective as per u is calling every Hindi song by her as divine and impeccable (in terms of pron.), so be it. Thanks for your "RESPONSE".
  
  I know Lata was criticised in the early 40s for her diction in URDU. But she had managed to correct it in 1 month's time - u are probably talking about the interesting incidents before the recording of "Andaaz" songs. VJ still hasnt
  :-)
  
  VJ is NOT A PATCH on Lata for Hindi songs - no way. She is nowehere close to even Sulakhana Pandit and Dilraj Kaur for that matter.
  
  Its her songs in Tamil that make her the virtuso she is. And those Meera bhajans both in rendition and comp. are not a patch on Latas ones. Its a known fact that she had refused to sing for Gulzar as she had already done Meera albums before.I also wonder why Gulzar did not turn to Vani afterwards. And dont quote chart lists. As a matter of fact bad diction is evident even in MSs Meera bhajans.To bracket even those (let alone VJs) Meera Bhajans with Latas (or with Devaki Pandit's) for that matter is blasphemy.
  
  Since IR has often recorded with Asha for Tamil songs, we must say he does not know Tamil well. Thats as per what u say.
  
  As far as the Mangeshkar monopoly goes, its a mad rambling of frustrated souls. Vani is my favourite, but Lata is way superior for Hindi and Marathi songs.
  
  I formally invite u to the RMIM page - its a place where the character of noble people can be questioned and slandered.
  
  
  Secondly, let's just say the "accent" of these singers was so way-out bad that they actually facilitated their own easing out from Hindi.
  
  Good u have admitted it. BTW I am not praising SS or Udit for their Tamil. I just followed your logic to show how ridiculous it seemed.
  
  
  As far as biographies not being authorised, then there's sth wrong with your definition of authorization itself!!!!!! Maybe whatever is convenient is authorized.
  
  Also I guess the entire clan of Northies is foolish when they dislike the Hindi pron. of VJ,KJY and SPPB. None of them are scholars????????
  BTW a number of my relatives who are Hindi,Marathi,Sanskrit scholars have persistently criticised her Hindi and Marathi pron. and said it carries a south indian touch.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Nov 30 02:53:45 EST 2001
  
  Naaz:
  
  I guess I have only stirred up a hornets nest here. I would have only been glad to know more about a person like u, but I guess I have started it all on a wrong note. Maybe I am much too persistent about what I say/feel. I have the knack of getting into trouble on online forums (it happened to me on RMIM too :-))
  I am sorry to have hurt u, but I guess I had better stop posting before things get ugly. In any case I am an outisder here.
  
  Bye, and wish you happy listenings!!
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Fri Nov 30 09:10:25 EST 2001
  
  Naaz,
  
  "soppanaththil" is from the movie "Theerppu". It is a nice melody. Typical early 80s MSV. A north indian friend of mine who lives in TN kept singing that song "soppanaththil hindhi padiththEn" :-)
  
  By the way I think you have addressed some of your points to me which I think are responses to other people's posts. No biggie.
  
  avr,
  
  You don't have to bye bye out of the thread. You are not an outsider. Both you and Naaz are very opinionated. Hence the clash. Let us discuss something else.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Fri Nov 30 09:44:17 EST 2001
  
  AVR its an open forum and there is no need for none of you to leave the forum.
  
  Naaz, you are not an outsider. Infact you have given great opinions, postings so far better than many in this forum.
  
  Vani jairam's Mere to giridhar gopal is my alltime favorite. I always mentioned in this forum whenever I got a chance to. You can find a sample of this song in
  
  http://www.sriramakrishnamath.org/books/EList.asp?ProductType=AA01
  
  Search for:
  Bhajan Sudha
  (Assorted)
  Click on Sample Audio Files
  
  she was my choice for any classical songs/bhajans. But it doesnt matter what do we think, Its always MD's, Producer/Directors choice who is going to sing what choice. And in north you can assume this to be to northies naturally and in south it would be southies ( until recently ).
  
  As a matter of fact, I also always find the accent difference of SPB/KJY/VJ etc., I am a person from south but speak Hindi, Tamil, telugu, Kannada, Marathi etc., I can differentiate between a southie and northie depending upon their talking style of the language. KJY had rendered great songs in Chitchor etc., but doesnt seem to be native to Hindi. Similarly though SPB did great job in many films, but you can figure out the accent not being native to Hindi.
  
  Though VJ was bought up in north, she seems to have minute difference. She is better when compared to SPB/KJY but her Hindi accent is no good when compared Lata/Asha. May be this was a factor as in those days they cared about of lot of things to make a song hit.
  
  But now adays there is no such care. I feel very bad about the current MD's who care less of language, pronounciation, diction, accent etc., I hate to listen Udit in Tamil/Telugu, but I love his Hindi songs. I hate to listen Shankar Mahadeven when he sings Telugu songs. They dont feel like telugu., One or two we can tolerate but not many.
  
  

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