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Vani Jayaram's songs

Topic started by avvaiyar (@ 203.116.61.132) on Wed Jan 27 02:29:28 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'm a new visitor to this website. I couldn't see anyone discussing about Vani Jayaram's songs.
Let me start this one.(It had been there previously pls. forgive me!)

"Ezhu swarangalukkul ethanai paadal..
Ithaya surangathul ethanai kelvi...
Vaazhum manitharukkul ethanai salanam.."

Wow! Beautiful voice!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Thu Nov 29 08:06:43 EST 2001
  
  avr,
  
  Asha had one superhit in Tamil (Shenbagame). Kavita had one hit (not Superhit) and that is "Kaatrey en vaasal". That is ALL I can think of. Sadhana had one Superhit (Snegithaney) and a few hits.
  
  
• From: Naaz Ahmed (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Nov 29 11:32:38 EST 2001
  
  You know what I find truly revealing in all this: Mumbai-vasis (or generally Indians who speak Hindi, Marathi, Bengali - who live north of Mumbai) will immediately tell you that KJY, VJ, SPB - all speak and sing Hindi with an accent (which they would imply is inauthentic - and hence a reason to disqualify them as good singers) BUT - the same criticism will never be applied to the imports from Mumbai who sing in southern languages. The fact is: The hindi of KJY, VJ, SPB - all singers par excellence - is infinitely more pleasing than the Tamil of Sadhna, Udit, Hariharan and Company. Another telling feature is this: The Mumbai MDs (and the hindi speaking public as well....)reject the class-acts from the South (using the familiar reasons of accent, pronunciation (you've offered these same reasons in the past AVR), understanding of the language - generally all termed as "Madrasi") while the Chennai MDs clamour for more and more of the Mumbai singers who have absolutely no investment in the proper enunciation of the language! I wonder why?
  
  To use the same argument of Sa Re Ga for the rejected singers of South (although VJ made her debut in Mumbai)- here is a list of MDs who might have also known what they were doing when they chose VJ, SPB, KJY for their compositions in Hindi: Jaidev, Salil Chowdhury, Ravi Shankar, Ram-Laxman, Raj Kamal, Vasant Desai, Bhappi Lahiri, Ghulam Muhammad, Naushad, Khayyam, Laxmikant-Pyarelal,Raghunath Seth,Anand-Milind...
  
  And all you have to do is put a hindi song by VJ side by side with a Tamil song by SS - and you will know (if you are a speaker of both, Hindi and Tamil)how the argument of "Pronunciation/Accent" really works...Believe me, who is biased and who isn't will become abundantly clear.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Thu Nov 29 16:09:37 EST 2001
  
  "When Panditji tried to recreate the same magic with another voice (Vani Jairam) in his score for Gulzar’s Meera, the compositions fell flat.
  Lataji refused to do Meera bhajans even though Panditji, Gulzar, even leading lady Hema Malini personally pleaded with her to do the needful. "How could I?" she reasons. "I had already done Meera bhajans for my brother Hridaynath."
  
  That was the opinion of Subhash Jha in his interview about Lata Mangeskar at
  http://gaurav-kumar.tripod.com/misc.htm
  
  Is this the general opinion, is this why she was not successful in Hindi?
  
  
• From: naaz ahmed (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Nov 29 16:58:24 EST 2001
  
  That is pure propaganda. Subhash Jha has never ever uttered a critical opinion in any of his interviews/articles on the Mangeshkars - and I wonder why they should be beyond reproach?
  Vani Jairam won the Filmfare Award (prestigious in those days, in fact much more coveted by mainstream artistes than the National Award)for the bhajan "Mere Tho Giridhar Gopal." Another factual piece to corroborate this Anti-Vani Bilge that the Mangeshkars spew (through their cronies) is that the same song from Meera has been listed by HMV as one of the ten best bhajans ever (the list includes MS Subbulakshmi and Lata Mangeshkar as well - both of whom have rendered Meera songs.)So the suggestion that the compositions fell FLAT is not only untrue, it is an example of personal bias on the part of Mr. Jha. (note the quote: Lata says "how could I? I had already donethe bhajans for my brother Hriday." The reasoning and "critcism" - including the begging/pleading Gulzar, Panditji, Hema - all are paraphrased!).
  
  One might also want to consider this: If Lata sang the Meera Bhajans for Ravi Shankar she would have another album competing with her brother's compositons. The refusal (if she was indeed offered the songs in the first place - I guess, we have to take Mr.Jha's version of this without much proof,)might have just been tactical and purely based on economics - why cut out Hridaynath's profits by doing another album which might cut into the former's sales? Not an implausible scenario. Secondly, the statement that she could not do the bhajans as she had already done them for her little brother is a ton of crock. She did sing another Meera Bhajan for Shiv-Hari in the film Silsila - "Jo Thum Thodo Piya."
  
  Finally: Let's give credit where it is due: To say that Pt. Ravi Shankar is a person who cannot measure a singer's calibre and performance is a suggestion that is both arrogant and insulting. If you really want a non-biased opinion (of which Mr.Jha is utterly incapable when it comes to the Mangeshkars) I suggest you look up the Hindi/English national dailies and their reviews of Meera when it was released. They will present the "unmediated" truth on this issue.
  
  Vani Jairam's songs in Meera are just as sincere and divine.
  
  I have (as a film/music critic) not come across any interview/review where Gulzar or Pt.Ravi Shankar have vocalised any misgivings or dissatisfaction with Vani's Meera. Given this lack of proof, it would seem Mr. Jha's claims are his own and as such cannot be attributed to any of his (unsubstantiated/unquoted) sources.
  
  The reason VJ was not encouraged in Hindi may have other factors (politics of ethnicity - might be one of them) but it had nothing to do with her calibre or ability as a singer.
  
  It is time to counter such baseless propoganda. It is time to say that the Mangeshkar monopoly (in the 70s and 80s) was not a myth but a reality.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Naaz Ahmed
  
  
• From: Balaji (@ 129.130.88.175) on: Thu Nov 29 18:21:26 EST 2001
  
  VJ won the Kavi sammelan award (from MP govt.) for the bhajan-Mere tho Giridhar gopal.
  I had heard this sometime back-even for the film Guddi since lata wasn't given any song, inorder to please lata Vasant desai had to use one of lata's song in the film Madhumati-Aa jarae pardesi in the film.
  Again there's an other thread in this group about pronunciation - its really sad to note that no one seems to remember vani's impeccable tamil pronunciation.
  If Pt. Ravi shankar had problems with VJ pronunciation he wouldn't have chosen her for his Bharatiyam composition.
  
  
• From: naaz ahmed (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Nov 29 20:30:14 EST 2001
  
  Hi Balaji,
  
  Yes, the very same year that Meera was released Vani Jairam was also awarded the Tansen Sammelan Award (a high honour among classical musicians). I have visited the pronunciation thread on this page and it seems everybody is playing "favourites" there.
  
  
• From: Balaji (@ 129.130.229.239) on: Thu Nov 29 21:11:32 EST 2001
  
  I have been looking for the songs -yaaradhu sollamal nenjall poovathu (from the movie Nenjamellam neeye), megame megame (palaivanacholai) and yenullil yedho engum deepam (from raosappu ravikkai kari) in the net. Could anyone post me the website wherein i can access these songs.
  This evening i was listening to VJ's latest songs in the Kannada film Neela-vow her voice still sounds fresh and very sweet.
  Whenever i listen to the song-Kavidhai kelungal I always get goosebumps. This is one of VJ's best song with all sorts of variations sung effortlessly by her.But the picturisation wasn't good.
  
  
  
• From: naaz ahmed (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Nov 29 22:18:41 EST 2001
  
  Balaji:
  
  Try Swara.com - they have a good (though sometimes a bit scratchy - and non-stereo) tracks from films of the 80s. They are listed by artist/MD/film. I do believe they have a few of VJs old hits.
  "Yennullil Yengo Yaengum geetham" is one of my all time favourite songs. I do believe it is also one of Illayaraja's most poignant compositions. VJ is 56 yrs old. She had at least another 15 years before her voice shows the signs of age. The quality (technically that would be TIMBRE) of her chords still registers the high notes with the same resonance of her early years. That is truly a marvel. I hear the Neela songs are well appreciated all over Karnataka these days. Good for the VJ-Vijayabhaskar team!
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Thu Nov 29 22:37:01 EST 2001
  
  I don't understand Hindi very much. Just from listening to the styles, I get the feeling that Vani's Hindi has Sanskritic flavor while Hindi in Bollywood in general has a Persian/Urdu flavor. I may be wrong. May be Naaz can do this analysis better as he knows several languages. Vani's rendition for Meera in my opinion is impeccable. But the compositions are ordinary. Singers can only lift up a song so much. The MD has to do his part well too. Ravi Shankar could have done a lot better.
  
  Did anyone notice the extra effort Vani puts in pronouncing the Sanskrit words correctly in "karuna cheivaan". At times it made me nervous that she was going to lose her breath control. Something I don't have to worry about a Pro. Vani's Tamil diction is maaththirai sudhdham. Which means she is totally unacceptable in TFM today.
  
  Balaji, Visit raaga.com and swara.com. You will find some of those songs there.
  
  avr, Have you listened to VJ and BMK in a movie song "thangam vairam navamaNigaL". It is a beautiful song. Pay extra attention to the line "kaNNum kaNNum". Vani just melts there. She will make you melt too.
  
  
• From: Balaji (@ 129.130.231.238) on: Thu Nov 29 23:30:14 EST 2001
  
  Hi-Neel and Naaz-Thanks for the info.
  I remember reading in Ananada vikatan couple of years ago-Is vj's sis-in law B.Rajam iyer- supposedly a famous vilonist in Hindustani music.
  Again some of VJ's songs that totally stunned me -
  Paadum vande parthathunda-from Kaalangali aval vasantham-that too whn she says enge enge enge -the effect is astounding
  also the song from sila nerangalil sila manithargal- veru idam thedipoovaloo, mangala kannagi kunguma nayagi (Thaaliya salangaiyaa)-the ghambiram in her renditions were just great.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Nov 30 00:21:05 EST 2001
  
  So Naaz - earlier u said there is a world of diff. between Hindi pron. of VJ and KJY. Now u are using the same logic to argue that KJY and SPB have impeccable Hindi (which is why u say that all those MDS chose them for their compoitions)
  
  I think while u are accusing me of favouritism , thats more applicable to you. I have quite an objective listener else I would not have started appreciating songs in languages which are foreign to me. U are a genius - thats my only word for a person who knows more than 10 languages. I am NOT one. But u lived in Chennai and learnt the Tamil langauge. I live in Pune, dont know a word of Tamil, yet admire the music here. Which is why I have appreciated so many songs of VJ in Tamil. This proves MY objectivity.
  
  I personally find almost all Hindi songs by VJ to be lacking in terms of diction and consequently a few other aspects. VJs meera bhajans were NOT A PATCH on the 3 epic albums created by the LM_HM combo. - both in terms of renditions and in terms of composition TOO.
  
  Also, how many songs have VJ and SPB sung for GHulam Mohammed,Khayyam,LP,Raam Laxman,Naushad,Salil,Jaidev,KA - please do tell me.
  Is it one,two,three,four,five,six....?How many?
  And kindly desist from putting BL along with Naushad. BL and even Raam Laxman are at best PATHETIC MDs.
  
  
  The fact is: The hindi of KJY, VJ, SPB - all singers par excellence - is infinitely more pleasing than the Tamil of Sadhna, Udit, Hariharan and Company
  
  U are passing a personal opinion as a fact.
  BTW Sadhana and Hariharan have worked with the likes of Ronu Mazumdar,Zakir Hussain,Mehndi Hassan,N Rajam, Amjad Ali Khan,Hariprasad Chaurasia, Ustaad Sultan Khan................
  
  Lastly these 2 statemenst contradict each other.
  
  The Mumbai MDs (and the hindi speaking public as well....)reject the class-acts from the South (using the familiar reasons of accent, pronunciation (you've offered these same reasons in the past AVR),
  
  ... all these MDs have had reasons to take SPB and KJY... and Vj...
  
  
  And Lata was very much offered those songs by none other than Gulzar himself. See a few biographies!!!!
  
  And u are partly admitting the problem with VJs Hindi and then denying it, good!!
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Nov 30 00:25:01 EST 2001
  
  Neel:
  
  "avr, Have you listened to VJ and BMK in a movie
  song "thangam vairam navamaNigaL". It is a beautiful song. Pay extra attention to the line "kaNNum kaNNum". Vani just melts there. She will make you melt too. "
  
  Links please!!!!!
  
  
  Naaz:
  
  The Silsila song u are talking about is JUST ONE SONG. RS and Gulzar offered her a WHOLE ALBUM which she refused. The Silsila song came much later in 82 whereas the Meera film was released in 78-79. BTW amongst the 3 albums Lata sang for HM, one is a rare collection from the 50s, one and the best one is from the late 60s. The last one - "Chala Vaahi Des" - is from the EARLY 70s.
  
  
  
  
  

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