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TFMin isai kuyil PSa, SJa, Chithravaa?

Topic started by Shanmugam Murugappan (@ ifmxmenlo.informix.com) on Thu Dec 3 16:32:36 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi all,

I just surfed thro' the net and happened to see the profile of PS. She was heralded as the "Lata Mangeshkar" of TFM. Does she deserve that crown more than SJ and Chithra?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: karthi (@ g184.grainger.uiuc.edu) on: Thu Dec 10 22:42:09 EST 1998
  
  Last feeling in this posting...
  
  IR's songs were so light hearted and make one feel jolly that it did not require a highly committed voice like PS. SJ was more suitable just because she could just go on singing lively without serious thought to perfection.
  
  Yet, I love the following songs of IR where SJ did a superb job:
  
  1. Germaniyin
  2. Azhaghu Aayiram
  3. Adadada Maamara Kiliye (I love this song!)
  4. Aagaaya Gangai
  5. Hey..Paadal Ondru
  6. Ninaithaal Inikkum (from Kalyanaraman)
  7. Chinna Chinna Vanna Kuyil
  8. Oho megam vandhadho
  9. Doorathil naan kanda un mugam
  10. Putham Pudhu kaalai
  
  and there are many more.....
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Fri Dec 11 10:33:16 EST 1998
  
  I have been enjoying the postings in this thread for quite some time. What a contrast when compared other so&so Vs so&so threads.
  
  Regarding IR not using PS in spite of his 'Andhamma madhiri paada varadhu' remarks, I think IR wanted to sound diplomatic. He didn't want to mention his reservations about using PS. As with any aspiring MD, during the waiting-in-the-wings days they dream about how they would have done a popular song in their style. Like 'I would have used a diff. instrument or would have made the singer sing a particular line differently' etc. I think IR would have felt that SJ was the right one to bring out the expressions and moods in his tunes. Also it is a well known fact (or widely believed) that IR was the one who tuned the song ThEn sindhudhE vaanam sung by SPB & SJ (PoNNukku thanga manasu) when he was an assistant to GKV. This could be the same reason why ARR (please don't start another war just b'cos his name is mentioned here) hasn't used SJ much for his songs.
  
  You guys have been listing songs by PS under IR. I would like to recommend these late 70's songs by PS.
  
  Naan oru peNNoviam kandEn (both PS and SJ with SPB)
  EngEyo Eadho paatondru - Nadhiyai thedi vandha kadal
  
  It is amazing how effortless (often confused with lack of Bhavam) PS sounds in these songs. However my all time favorite PS number is Nenjam maRappadhillai - what a beautiful high-pitched start and my hats-off to her amazing breath control.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Fri Dec 11 15:22:19 EST 1998
  
  Karthi,
  
  I didn't mean to tell PS' voice was more expressive than SJ's. Maybe, my words were wrong. I just wanted to tell that PS too had a very expressive voice along with the sweetness in her voice. I too don't think that her voice is 'thigattifying'. Then thigattalaam. Aanal, thigattaadhadu PS voice.
  
  IR had great respects for PS as a singer and it is indeed surprising that PS had second thoughts on singing for the great MD. But, if it is so, I think that is wrong in the part of PS.
  
  As Ravy said, the "Nenjam marappadhillai" song is one of her best.
  
  And as Srinath concluded, LM can be called as the PS of the north and Asha Bhosle can be called as the SJ of the north. I feel, this is quite a correct assessment, instead of calling PS as the LM of south.
  
  And as Ravy rightly pointed out, there is quite a big contrast in this thread when compared to the other so&so vs so&so threads
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-79-99.sprint.ca) on: Sat Dec 12 00:18:45 EST 1998
  
  In a lot of the responses, I have read that you all feel that Chitra is not experienced enough to be compared with PS or SJ. How long do you have to be a singer until you are qualified to be accepted as a good one. Half a century. The lady has been singing since 1984 in tamil. Is that not enough time. I mean if you take SPB, he started out in 1966 and I think he only became popular after IR's arrival.
  Some have said that Chitra lacks expression. Try listening to 'Un Marbil' from Ninaithean Vanthai or 'Kannalanea' from Bombay. Songs such as 'Sondam vandahdu' and ' Vanthadea kungumam 'and' O Priya Priya' are other examples. There are great many such as. Trouble with all of that is that the songs that came in the 80's are not in with the times. I mean people say they listen to old songs and they listen to new songs; when have they ever said that they listen to songs in the time period in between. If you do you can see that there are a great many good songs of hers. Secondly, she is the only female so far to have hit it big (in an extremely short time period) when in the presence of great leading singers such as SJ, PS and Vani Jayaram. The short time period in which she became established compared with others waiting for a new phenomenonal MD to come along is different. Check this out, PS's glory was in the MSV period. SJ's was in IR's. Chitra is the only singer who has just come to be.
  
  I agree that so far, of all the songs I have heard SJ can certainly be versatile. Sing with a lot of expressions and break in here and there and make is sound loose, not a formatted thing. Just like SPB can. But you see, these two are not carnatically trained. They don't think about this swara or that when singing of beat folk songs or love songs or songs with dialogues. This is not the case of PS or Chitra. They were both intending to be carnatic singers. They probably are too trained to just loose themselves like that. I mean, when a farmer is singing a folk song on his field he never worries about any rules. Off all these singers, I have heard that Chitra is the one who is always sure to hit the right note. I read somewhere that IR would have never dared to give a song such as 'Ethetho Ennum' to SJ because of the difficult notations in the songs. And I think that Chitra has got the sweetest voice, then any other singer I have heard( I am not very familiar with MS ). I would say that her voice is clearer than that of PS. When PS goes to high pitches, it gets really unclear in some songs. But I have to say that she has sang the most number of really good memorable songs, but that should also be credited to the industry of that time where we had people willing to make cinema for the art then for the money and fame. I think that some people may find PS's songs more likeable because it is not dominated by the music. The voice is well heard because the music supports the voice and not vice-versa.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 175-173-125.ipt.aol.com) on: Sat Dec 12 01:59:23 EST 1998
  
  aruvi:
  This is the first time that I am coming across someone who makes such a plausible argument for Chitra. But there are a few things that I have to disagree with. For one, Chitra's expressions are similar to that of Uma Ramanan's. Incidentally Uma Ramanan's voice remains sweet even at high pitches whereas Chitra's voice shows the strain very clearly. The most recent example that I cna think of off the top of my head would be "Mannan koorai chelai" from Kaalapaani. The tune goes pretty high in the middle of each charanam and Chitra's voice seems to come out of her nose, rather than her mouth ! Of course, this is no blemish on a singer as accomplished as Chitra :) So I would say that Chitra's major drawbakcs are -
  
  1. Straining to sing at high pitches (I know, some are not going to agree with this. But do specifically recollect having grimaced at some of Chitra's songs when they went into a high pitch)
  
  2. Mechanical expressions - though she knows "..aasai perugudhayya
  idayinil aadai nazhuvudhayya" from "Anbe Nee Enna" is supposed to be sung seductively, she sings it as if she is talking about the weather ! Now if SJ were singing that song, you can imagine the effect !!!
  
  3. Pronunciation - though I am no great shakes when it comes to speaking in Tamizh, some very genuine pronunciation flaws of Chitra have been poointed out in this same DF.
  
  Apart from that, I believe she has one of the sweetest voices I have ever heard. I even heard her sing a couple of lines on T.V during an interview. I had to listen closely to make sure that she wasn't accompanied by any other instrument - so sweet and resonating was her voice !!! I also believe that IR used his singers very intelligently. Like I mentioned earlier, PS sang "Karpoora Bommai.." which is supposed to be sung by Geetha playing the mother's role. Like you mentioned, IR gave "Ethetho Ennam" to Chitra than SJ. Likewise with Povoma Oorgolam - Swarnalatha etc But the majority of movies and heroine characters of IR's period were sexy, seductive and modern (when aren't they :)) And I think SJ did a wonderful job alongside SPB. A lesser singer could not have held the fort for so long !
  On a side note, (warning: severe digression ahead !) just look at the plethora of singers around today ! Of course, India's socialism may dictate that everybody must be given a chance to sing irrespective of age, sex, talent, etc., etc. The music these days is such that it doesn't matter who sings. Number one culprit is IR himself, making Bavatharini sing for grown-ups ! Similarly, ARR making North Indians sing for South Indians, Suresh "Peter"s (summa va vachanga paeru 'Peter'nnu :)))) for Prabhu Deva. Insha Allah, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan went to meet his maker ! Otherwise, we might have seen Deva making him sing for Sendhil or Goundamani !!! Thre is still hope, our great genius composer Daler Mehendi has not sung in Tamizh yet ! I am waiting for that fateful day, when I'll stop listening to 'Tamizh' music altogether !!! :))))
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sat Dec 12 08:24:55 EST 1998
  
  Dont' worry srinath,
  In mudhalvan ARR might call daler mehendi to sing for Arjun :-))))
  If NFAK were alive , he wudn't have called him to sing for sendhil ,rather it wud've been rajnikant who wud be singing sa..re..ga..rE..sa..rE....sa..re..ga..rE..ga ..sAAAA in padayappA :-)))))
  
  
  Disclaimer:No offense meant.basically, a dlkjhds... stuff :-))))
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ spider-tm054.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Dec 12 11:56:03 EST 1998
  
  I didn't mean to side-step Chitra in my posting. IMHO Chitra's rendering of Carnatic based songs is vastly superior to others.
  
  Calling LM as PS of North India is not warrented. It is like calling Detroit as Madras of America or Manchester as Bombay of Engalnd. Whether we like it or not, LM qualifies to be the standard bearer just by the fact that she has reached more number of listeners than PS.
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-88-9.sprint.ca) on: Sat Dec 12 22:46:17 EST 1998
  
  Srinath
  
  1. PRONUNCIATION- not only Chitra but SJ and PS have had the same problem with some of their songs as pointed out in other threads. Just because one or two songs come out such as doesn't mean that anyone condemned SJ or PS. So why Chitra. Right now SPB is considered to speak better tamil than most Tamil TV personalities. But even he had pronunciation problems when he started off. This is because of not being familiar with the language. Have you noticed this problem in any new songs.
  
  P.S.- Check out the song from Iruvar that Arvindswamy(tamilian) sang. The song was about tamil patriotism and the guy goes and messes up the pronunciation. So where does this leave us.
  
  Straining at high pitches - There are songs of SJ and PS and VJ that gets annoying when they go to higher octaves. This is because they already have soprano voices. So when they sing in high pitch it seems worse. Likewise, it is the same for Swarnalatha. But I find that Chitra has a comfortable voice range. It sounds sweet and clear even in high ranges, although I admit that songs tend to be irratating when singers go beyond their voice limit. A recent example for this is ARR. It seems like he is shouting in some songs.(Like Ravy said, no ARR argument please.) But I see many young people enjoying MUSTAFA MUSTAFA, VANDE MATARAM AND SANTHOSA and the songs from KADHAL DESAM. I have listened to 'MANNAN KURAI CHELAI' many times and have not noticed this straining that you talk of. Can please verify what stanza it is.
  
  Mechanical Expressions - Yes I can imagine the effect of SJ singing it seductively, if it had been told by the MD to be sung like 'NETRU RATHIRI YAMMA'. But 'ANBE NEE ENNA' is not that kind of a song. Have you ever heard any girl sing or hum the tune of 'NETRU RATHIRI'? But 'ANBE NEE ENNA' can't have that kind of seductivity. It does have expressions in it but then it is not dominant. It's a song that a girl sings about her lover. Thinking of him. If the MD wanted it to sound like anything else then he would have gotten if he asked for it. I can prove it. Check out the song 'Sivarathiri' that Chitra sings along with Mano. That's the kind of song that needs that kind of seductivity and it has got it.
  
  I once watched a program where Chitra sang a song of SJ's from the movie 'Karakatakaran'. It sounded sweet and good but it sounded strange because I had already heard SJ sing it. So I thought that SJ suited it better. Maybe that's not so. Maybe I am just too familiar with SJ having sung the song that I felt that it was strange when Chitra sang it. Likewise, if I heard SJ singing 'UN MARBIL' or 'KANNALANEA' I would probably feel that Chitra did it better.
  
  
  
  
• From: Thomas (@ nb23ppp61.cac.psu.edu) on: Sun Dec 13 13:26:52 EST 1998
  
  Srinath:
  
  I beg to differ, Chithra is one of of the few artists who posseses unbelievable clarity at high pitches. There was some talk earlier in another discussion thread that Chithra totally ruined the 'Anjali Anjali' song from Duet. People claimed that her voice sounded like it shrilled right before she came to the chorus part. In fact, I noticed that also on the 'Duet' tape that I had at the time. However, two weeks ago I was able to get a CD version of the song and there was absolutely no error in her singing or voice. The recording quality on the tape was bad, but one has to listen to a clear copy to hear the amazing clarity she maintained at that high pitch. As far as her pronounciation, I have said this many times before: it is NOT done intentionally. If we were to criticize Chithra on pronounciation errors in Tamil, why not do the same for PS when she sang in Malayalam. Her accent was atrocious, but that was the sweetest voice of the day, so people bought into it. I have to give SJ credit in that department because her Malayalam pronounciation is perfect! OK, I have to run folks......
  
  

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