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TFMin isai kuyil PSa, SJa, Chithravaa?

Topic started by Shanmugam Murugappan (@ ifmxmenlo.informix.com) on Thu Dec 3 16:32:36 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi all,

I just surfed thro' the net and happened to see the profile of PS. She was heralded as the "Lata Mangeshkar" of TFM. Does she deserve that crown more than SJ and Chithra?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ovvayaar (@ client209-42-213-93.intrex.net) on: Wed Dec 9 11:44:06 EST 1998
  
  Shanmuga! Muruga! unakku eppozhguthumae vilayatuthaan!
  
  ippadi kalvi-a, selvama, veerama-endru kettaal intha pethaiaal enna solla iyaluvum?
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Dec 9 16:50:16 EST 1998
  
  
  Ovvayae,
  
  Naan ungalai ondru rendu moondru endru varisa paduthi paadal sollava kaettaen!!! LM of TFM yaaru endru dhaanae kaettaen.
  
  Also, I too don't understand why LM should be a reference point. Just because she is the most respected female singer in the country (of course, after MS) doesn't mean that she is the best. She is definitely a great singer and at the same time, she is very much over-rated.
  
  Each singer is good in their own style. As of now, I can understand that Chitra is not that much experienced to be compared with the likes of Lata, PS and SJ. But, definitely, she is the best now. As far as an expressive voice is concerned, I will stand by Karthi's side. PS definitely had a more expressive voice than SJ. Again, no comparisons with Madonna and all. Maybe, IR's music coupled with SPB and SJ duets had made Srinath, an ardent IR fan, to come to the conclusion that SJ had a more expressive voice. Again, taste and opinion differs. Please hear the following songs :
  
  malarndhum malaraadha paadhi malar pola malarndha ilam thendralae... ("Paasa Malar")
  
  muthukkalo kangal thitthippadho kannam... sandhitha velayil sindhikkavae illai thandhu vittaen ennai... ("Nenjirukkum Varai")
  
  athan... ennathaan... avar ennaithaan ("Paava Mannippu")
  
  thottaal poo malarum... thodaamal naan malarndhaen ("Padagotti")
  
  unnai naan sandhithaen... nee aayirathil oruvan... ennai naan koduthaen... en aalayathin Iraivan.... aalayathin Iraivan ("Aayirathil oruvan")
  
  And, Sathish Kumar, PS, SJ, Chithra, Vani Jeyaram, as well as, LM and Asha Bhosle are all nightingales of the century.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Dec 9 17:19:02 EST 1998
  
  Shanmugam Murugappan:
  Yeah, my preference for IR's music might well be the reason why I think SJ is the most expressive. Fact remains that PS never hit big time with the greatest music director of India. From the examples that you have mentioned, I can remember only TMS' voice in the first two numbers. As for the rest, I maintain my stance, PS' voice is sweet enough to thegatufy anybody, I whole-heartedly agree. But her expressions are dramatic at worst and effective at best. But never as realistic as SJ's.
  Perhaps it also has a lot to do with the lyrics those days. Since they were mostly in text-book tamizh, I probably find them dramatic. I must grant you that much. SJ as a TFM performer is in no way inferior to PS and co. But yes, I readily admit, voice-wise it goes PS-Chitra-Vani Jeyram-Uma Ramanan and then the rest. In fact, one area where SJ beats the others hollow is the vibrance in her voice. Nobody else, including PS, has ever had that kind of a vibrance in their voice. Another thing is "Kannukku Mai Azhagu" - where ARR probably used PS as a gimmick - he even used Jayachandran as a gimick - bah ! he uses everything as a gimmick :))) - PS' voice was pedestrian in that song. Compare that with "Karpoora Bommai Onru" from Keladi Kanmani. The initial humming sets the mood - the song is a 'mother' kind of song and PS appears to have a mature voice - instead of the bland voice as portrayed by ARR's "Kannukku...". At this point even I am not sure of what I want to say :) But this much I can tell you - expression-wise SJ has done more justice than anyone else that I have heard. Agreed, it is purely subjective.
  
  Even as comparision you would have seen in my first posting that I called Lata the PS of HFM and Asha Bhonsle the SJ of HFM. Therefore I am not trying to deny credit anywhere. Except I feel that there are certain factors which make SJ a better TFM singer that PS or Chitra.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Dec 9 19:24:07 EST 1998
  
  Srinath,
  
  You have done a very good analysis. Of course, in certain factors SJ is better. But there are many other factors in which PS outclasses others. There are certain songs which can be sung only by LRE. So, what I want to say is, every TFM female singer (and male singer) have done a great job. Still, I can't agree to your conclusion that SJ's voice is more expressive than PS. As far as the 'malarndum malaraadha' song and 'muthukkalo kangal' song, TMS actually played second fiddle to PS in certain areas. In the second song, the following lines will show that :
  
  "paditha paadam enna... un kangal paarkum paarvai enna"
  
  It starts into a high pitch and ends into a low pitch. The expression with which PS sings is actually very much better than that of TMS.
  
  Also, in the first song, see how PS starts the charanam and compare it with the way TMS starts. Definitely, I feel, the former had done better than the latter.
  
  Agreed to the fullest, that PS didn't do great numbers with IR. But, certain songs like 'Karpoora bommai ondru' and 'muthu mani maalai' and one song in the films 'chinnathayee' and 'mayanginaen solla thayanginaen' were good numbers. Also, PS did a great work in 'kannukku mai azhagu' ("Pudhiya Mugam"). Both the tune and the voice were melodious to the core.
  
  At times, I have noticed SJ's voice changing at high pitch, unlike PS, who will maintain her voice throughout the song, irrespective of high pitch or low pitch. Also, certain songs in which people call her the best are, IMO, over-rated like the song, "karavai maadu moonu... kaalai maadu onnu" (Magalir Mattum), "Inji iduppazhagaa" (Thevar Magan), "Eppadi Eppadi" (Indhu - Deva was the MD for this song... maybe due to that!!!).
  
  I like the following songs of SJ :
  
  chinna poongkili sollum thenmozhi - Paarvadhi Ennai Paaradi (Heard about this film? definitely you would have heard this song... great work from IR)
  
  putham pudhu kaalai (Alaigal oivadhillai)
  
  azhagiya kannae (udhiri pookkal)
  
  andhi mazhai pozhigiradhu (raaja paarvai)
  
  thendral vandhu ennai thodum (thendralae ennai thodu)
  
  and numerous other songs.
  
  A striking fact is that all the above songs were tuned by IR. The IR-SPB-SJ combination worked very much like MSV-TKR-TMS-PS (and to a great extent Kannadasan) combination. Both are of different generations and I feel both are good (although I like the older one more than the newer one).
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.66) on: Thu Dec 10 00:13:34 EST 1998
  
  as an addendum:
  
  PS's other notable nos with IR:
  
  1. mella mella ennai thottu - vaazhkai - not so often do u find PS singing dance/seductive nos like this.
  
  2. aadum neram ithu thaan - soorasamhaaram - ditto
  as above.
  
  3. ther kondu sendravan - enakkul oruvan- beauty of hamsadhwani fully brought out by MD/singer.
  
  4. paadavanthathor gaanam - thooral ninnu pochu - a decent duet in hindolam.
  
  5. poo poo pookam maasam thai maasam- varusham 16
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.26.37) on: Thu Dec 10 00:38:25 EST 1998
  
  Ennppa vijay, mukyama onnu vittittiyey - "Varam thantha saamikku" ? (:))
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Thu Dec 10 14:19:39 EST 1998
  
  
  I don't think MD for the song "Varam thantha saamikku" is IR. I think it is KVM.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ g184.grainger.uiuc.edu) on: Thu Dec 10 22:34:12 EST 1998
  
  Come On Shan!
  
  'Varam Thantha Samikku' is from Swathi Muthyam's Tamil Version. IR was greatly appreciated for his work in that movie.
  
  
  Srinath,
  
  Before I start to speak let me tell you this. If you had noticed, I never ever said anywhere in my postings (unlike Shan) that PS's expression is better than SJ.
  
  I totally and totally agree that SJ's expression was the best in the field. I can quote many of her numbers for that as you did.
  
  Wait. Yet, expression alone cannot make up for a song. Not to say SJ's voice was not sweet. There can never be another 'Singaara Velane Devaa' by any other singer and that includes MS also.
  (Frankly I've never listened to MS except for a number or two because I somehow didn't develop the habit of listening caranatic music - but according to my Mom, MS's voice has 'layam'- I also know that MS voice can rise to any high pitch sooooo easily).
  
  There are political reasons for PS not making it big time with IR as everybody in the TFM world knows it. Once I was talking to a person who was closely connected to the TFM world and he said this to me:
  
  "Even Raja Sir himself used to feel 'Andhamma madhiri paada mudiyaadhu' but yet he gave her chances only in the ratio 20:1".
  
  One reason IR's natural joining hands with SJ was she was the one who readily accepted and did not make any fuss at all when called to work for 'Annakkili'. She certainly acted with humanity and that turned out to be the turning point of her whole career and life.
  
  Word also has it that PS and LR (who was the first to be approached for 'Machaana Paaththeengala') had second thoughts singing for an otherwise unknown MD, which IR was then.
  
  'Annakkili' became such a hit that I think it was only natural for IR to do justice to who had been one of the reasons - I mean SJ - for the musical success of the film. We should also accept the fact that SJ's voice actually became mature only at that point of time.
  
  If you hear SJ singing before Annakkili, you can easily judge that her voice though sweet was not mature at all except a very few. Sometimes, kuzhandai paadaraa madhiri irukkum.
  
  As I told you PS has it all. One thing I like about PS is she never over plays a song. Sila songs, I used to think she could have sung with even more expression. But as such, those numbers would have become super hit.
  
  Oru eg: 'Unnai Kaanadha Kannum Kannalla' - from 'Idhya kamalam'.
  
  you know how popular this song is! It seems PS's husband told her of the song that she could have done better. I also used to feel the same about this song especially after hearing Lata sing the same (same mood) for 'Mera Saya' which was a remake of 'Idhaya Kamalam'.
  
  The whole point I'm trying to convey here is PS need not sing with more expression than whatever she used to sing with - because her voice just takes care of the rest.
  
  Even if she sings a song without any 'bhaavam' you can hear it because it's quality is such that of an instrument. 'Veenai'-layum, 'Violin'-layum enna bhaavam irukka mudiyum? But yet you don't sense it when you hear Veenai or Violin. You just love them. So is PS's voice.
  
  May be PS didnot make it big time with IR. But she had done it all before. Not all the singers can jel with all the MD's. (Though Lata ruled HFM it was more because of her high handed dominance).
  You start with someone, succeed, start giving big hits, you continue to stick to the team lest you may fail, the crescendo builds until it reaches a maximum point. On the way up there's no way you can give up some or take in others because you don't want to break it.
  
  This is what happened with MSV-TKR-Kannadhasan-TMS-PS.
  
  This is what happened with IR-VM-SPB-SJ also.
  
  I can never accept that PS voice 'thigattum' as you quoted. Edhu onru thigattumo adhai thirumba thirumba kekka mudiyaadhu. Do you say that PS was at top for that many years (1956-76) because her voice had that thigatra inimai? Not at all.
  
  She was an ultimate professional. She alone had that ability to sing for heroines. What are these singers here for? Are they not called play back singers? which means be it inimai or inimai illai, their job was to match theirs with those who they sing for!
  
  Truely TMS and PS were the trend setters in this in TFM. Later joined SPB in the band wagon. But somehow SJ's voice was not felt suitable for those days heroines just because PS was there.
  
  For a testimony, try to hear the following two songs of PS:
  
  1.Aandavanin Thottathile Azhaghu Sirikkudhu
  2.Moothaval Nee Koduthai
  
  And let me know what you feel about the voice in these songs. Better make someone else who have never heard these songs listen to them and ask them their opinion about the voice. I'm sure they'll say these are different voices. Or atleast they would say these are sung by the same voice but at different times.
  
  I also would attribute that after IR's arrival, TFM did not give as much importance to voice matching as it used to. IR was a trend setter in that he could bring in variety into music where voice did not matter any more. Yet, SPB and SJ did a great job.
  
  I was very happy when you quoted 'chinna chinna vanna kuyil' because I used to feel the same when I hear those lines. That song was SJ's incomparable number.
  
  
  
• From: karthi (@ g184.grainger.uiuc.edu) on: Thu Dec 10 22:37:29 EST 1998
  
  Just to list some of the all time hits of PS in IR's music which were not mentioned by any:
  
  1. Kannan Oru Kai Kuzhandhai
  2. Kettele Ange Adha Pathela Inge
  3. Thenna Marathula Thendral Adikkidhu
  4. Nadhiyoram....
  5. Kaathodu Poovurasa
  6. En Kan Mani Un Kadhali
  7. Thenil Aadhum Roja
  8. Thaalaattu
  9. Ore Idam
  10. Kalai Thendral
  
  

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