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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.99.162.140) on: Sun Dec 2 16:13:40 EST 2001
  
  Hi, This is a nice thread. I think the Mumbai playback singers are used based on the mood of the song. They get to sing hippy numbers withot proper lyrics and do not get to sing classical ot folk songs. The best sings invariably comes to the best singer in Tamil. Also, I feel that the cultural barrier are becoming less these days. Majority of the people want hummable tunes and do not bother about who sings it. But these songs are temporary. Only the songs with proper lyrics and proper usage of Tamil will be everlasting.
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 2 16:46:52 EST 2001
  
  Please correct me if I am wrong - but this is just my observations. Singers from the North made occassional forays into southern film music in the past (Manna Dey "Chemeen", Lata "Nellu" - as did a few MDs - Laxmikant Pyarelal, Ravi, Bhappi Lahiri, Ananda Shankar, Salil Chowdhury ). But these instances were rare and had a certain novelty. They were by no means permanent.
  
  The scene has changed significantly since the debut of ARR. And since then - mostly the ARR films - in Tamil have all the Udits, Kavitas and Sadhnas and Sukhwinders. Not wanting to miss out (don't know what the logic is to this) Deva and IR started to follow the thoughtless "trend."
  
  NOW the TREND has become a source of CORRUPTION and CARELESSNESS.
  
  While the influx from North to South has been steady - the traffic of singers of Southern Heritages to Hindi has always been rationed and restricted. VJ, KJY, SPB, CHITRA, sing Hindi songs - but only a number here and a few numbers there. Hindi Public has a great influence on their MDs. Tamil MDs are happy to ignore the needs of their audiences.
  
  Am I right in this observation?
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.165.219) on: Sun Dec 2 16:49:18 EST 2001
  
  "Are you a Tamilian?"
  
  I need to know the real meaning of this? Who is a true tamilian? Is one who speaks tamil, is he one shouts, or our great politicians, or munusamy and kuppusamy who have no interests in these kind of discussions...I am a bit confused...Who is a true tamilian???
  
  
• From: ram (@ 63.99.162.140) on: Sun Dec 2 16:58:46 EST 2001
  
  Indhu,
  What u said might be true. But I think u have missed out on an important aspect that Tamil Film Music is not the same as it was 20 years ago. Now music comes in different formats and is more easy to listen to. 20 years ago u have to go to a music shop to buy a cassette and listen to it . But these days, music is broadcasted thro the Net and hence has a wider reach and wider audience. Hence, the music directors have to cater to different needs. So I feel that they get Mumbai singers to add variety. As I told before, when it comes to a classical song with proper lyrics, all these Udits, Sukwindher do not get a chance. These good songs are sung by SPB,KJY, Unnikrishnan or Chitra. So this trend is not at a an alarming stage yet and I hope it does not go to that stage. And regarding Hindi Music, less we talk about it the better it is. You cannot have a good music if Kumar Sanu is ur leading singer:-)
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 2 19:16:35 EST 2001
  
  Ram,
  
  Tell me this: Are all the kids in the Mumbai suburbs (like bandra, or andheri or versova) listening to songs from Tamil films because they are sung by SS, KK or HH? I live in Mumbai and I don't see to many of my neighbours kids (Marathi, Gujarathi, Urdu ) running around with their walkmans etc listening to Tamil music...Their radios are not tuned to any Tamil Music Programmes either. Maybe they are all really sitting around the computer listening to KK's "Kaatrae" or HH's Roja - again and again. But I seriously doubt that to be the case. And what "variety" are mumbai singers providing by singing in tamil that tamil singers cannot provide? is bad singing/pronunciation now considered an aspect of "variety"??
  
  A true tamilian - this if for you Fliflo - is someone who has the courage to say: "Hey, that is not the way my language and its poetry is meant to be spoken. So please try to get it right!" For a closer example: If you spell your name (for example):Sundararajan - when someone makes a mistake once or twice about that spelling you will ignore it. But if it is constantly spelt as Sunderrajan or Sunder Rajan - wouldn't you speak up??
  
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Sun Dec 2 19:43:14 EST 2001
  
  Consider these facts, tell me which ones fit and which ones not;
  
  1. My friend's family migrated from AndhraPradesh some 100 years ago; they read, write and live with tamil; I have seen the native language in their mak sheet is mentioned as "Tamil". However, they have discrete touches of telegu..where do you fit them?
  
  2. There are atleast 30% of telegu community in Chennai..30% of malayalam speakers in coimbatore and 40% of people who speak all the major SI languages in Bangalore..They contribute a significant amount of their earnings in buying tamil music (to play in auto rickshaw, cars..etc)..Where do you fit them?
  
  3. Just make a scan how many tamil movies are produced by pure tamilians...Atleast 50-60% of movies last year were produced by Other language owners..By financing a tamil movie can we go ahead and say that they are contributing to the growth of tamil?
  
  4. Take my case, who was born and brought up in Coimbatore...Now I live in US..My kid for some compulsion may have to grow (more with american style) in this world...where does she belong to? can we call him/her a tamil...
  
  5.What happend to thousands of fathers work in Bank/public sector/transferrable positions..who live in Mumbai/Delhi/Calcutta, whose kids for some compulsory reason can not prononce like a Tamil in Tamilnadu...
  
  ......
  
  Well my name is prononced so badly in my office..Their language does not have certain things which tamil has..I can correct them all day..but it is never going to change..In the same way, I can not pronounce words in their accents so easily..We indians have unique accent in pronouncing other language(s) and more closely we have sub-variations oriented to their region..So if the americans decide to employ only people who can pronounce their language like how they do..you can imagine about people like me...By writing this, I am no way supporting usage of hindi singers to sing tamil songs..But just boling our blood over this is only going to spoil our own physique and mind..I understand your concerns and stand with you..but what is the point is anybody going to listen to us...
  
  My boss always quotes me this;
  
  "Everything is not money, but everything which is not money you can buy by money"
  
  Money is such a powerful source..it can swallow any thing..I mean anything....
  
  
  
• From: sats (@ 63.210.79.38) on: Sun Dec 2 20:27:56 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo
  
  May be what I say here might be a digression , have u ever had a chance to listen to doordarshan english news when venkatraman was the president have you hear how his name as pronounced it was always not proper , but if it was name of a japanese prime minister or some body else the news crew used to call up the embassy and get the correct pronounciation . May be tamils are taken for granted and they dont care even too much.
  
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.218) on: Sun Dec 2 20:46:42 EST 2001
  
  sats, i share your concerns..it is true that there are very many places we are just take it for granted...who has to bring it to their notice..why they do not do that...will just a phoe call or a letter solve....by the by, i do not know whether sun tv 'uma's "la" "zha" problem has been corrected yet....(not pepsi uma)
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 2 21:48:39 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo,
  
  Your points are relevant. However, even if you were say, a malayalee, or a kashmiri, who was born and brought up in TN, but spoke Urdu or Malayalam at home - if you care enough about your environment - about the predominant culture that around you - you would surely make the effort to get things right about that culture? Yes, your accent (being an outsider) maybe foreign - and maybe forgiven - but you would score high marks for trying - and chances are with a "sincere" investment in the language of the STATE - you might be able to speak it almost like a native.
  
  However, that is not the case with the Singers who are from Mumbai for sing for Tamil "characters" who are (mostly) located in or around Tamil Nadu in the films. It is very annoying to hear a Sadhana Sargam singing in her own peculiar alienting Tamil for a character who otherwise in the film acts and speaks like a bonafide woman from Kovai or Kuttralam. Get what I am saying??
  
  Cultural Hybridity is a Global fact. But within an enthnographic "environment" in Tamil films, I would think that the language should sound like Tamil the way it is spoken within that context.
  
  I wonder if Germans would tolerate a Swede singing in their language the way Swedes speak German...
  
  I hope my point is clear now.
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Sun Dec 2 23:04:38 EST 2001
  
  Recently some MDs, a singer, a producer visited newtfmpage and also carried on conversations with other posters. There may be other net savvy MDs and singers who could be visiting but not posting. We have to make it clear to them that murdering Tamil and Tamil music is unacceptable, in strong words, every time one such album or song is released.
  
  After listening to Nandha I was happy that there are still some people who care about diction, decency and quality. Thanks to Bala and the producers who refused to keep with the "trend".
  
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.40.187) on: Sun Dec 2 23:30:44 EST 2001
  
  Another wasted talent.
  
  http://www.aaraamthinai.com/thozhi/pennmozhi/nov2001/nov27_tkkala.asp
  
  
  Has anyone heard T.K.Kala's non-film song "manadhil ezuthiya kadidhangaL" ?
  
  
• From: musicfan (@ 128.173.35.167) on: Sun Dec 2 23:50:00 EST 2001
  
  Atlast
  Thanks Indu for bringing this topic to light.
  I have been putting forth my opinion on this issue in other threads cos I was unable to strt my own discussion topic.
  I feel very bad when I hear to so many singers..butchering tamil with pathetic diction and to add to our woes..the lyricists write such miserable tinglish words..all in the name of catering to the younger generation.
  Some songs..have good tunes..but the words are killed..and it pains me soo much.
  And for me , there is no justification.I guess "Strawberry kanne" song in Minsara Kanavu set the whole ball rolling..followed by soo many.Now any HJ film is replete with such songs.And YSR, ARR and every other MD follows the same beaten track..Why ?
  I am sure there are hundreds of tamilian singers..or atleast non-tamilians who can still pronounce well.SPB is not a tamilian.But even today..hi MunPAniyaa..tells me..what tamil is all about. KJ is also tuned..even though his malayalam accent is shown..its acceptable.
  And friends..Unni, Hari haran are no big deal.Theirs is not too bad ..Listen to the today's brigade..with each movie having 5 new singers..
  why not use the ones who can pronounce..sukhwinder or Udit are fine when u use them to pep up a song..while the main song is sung by another singer..and yes, I put the blame squarely on ARR ..Although he has a good voice..pls listen to him sing..check out his pronounciation.I am not too happy with his diction and I am sure quite a few of you have also noticed it.
  IF there are any MDs or lyricists readin this,pls pls let tamil live..its a wonderful language.pls DO NOT KILL IT !
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Mon Dec 3 00:46:08 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo, thanx for sharing your thoughts on a real Tamil. It was very comforting to hear.
  I'll describe my own situation and let Indhu decide if I'll fit in with her idea of a real Tamil.
  All my great-grandparents were born in Andhra. After that, there was some inter-state and overseas migration. So, my grandfathers (maternal & paternal) were born in TN while my grandmothers (maternal & paternal) were born in Malaysia.
  Then somehow, evryone ended up in Spore. But my mum, who was born in Msia, was taken back to TN when she was about 7, and was educated there before she moved back to Singapore when she was 19. In the process, she grew up in a Tamil culture, which she obviously passed on to us. So anyway, the situation right now is that all my grandparents can speak fluent Telegu as well as Tamil. My parents understand and can carry a conversation in Telegu, but always would rather speak Tamil given a choice. My siblings and I can barely speak 5 words in Telegu, but are fluent in Tamil, and can read & write in Tamil, as in Spore, it's compulsory for all kids to learn their mother tongue as 2nd language. (and the 3 officially recognised 'mother tongues' are Tamil, Bahasa Malay & Mandarin).
  Now, having been settled in spore/msia for some time, my immediate family don't even care to celebrate Ugadi but we celebrate Tamil Puthaandu.
  When anyone asks me, to skip this long-winded explanation, I just say i am Tamil. Those close to me only find out, as the only Telegu aspect still left on us is the way we address our relatives eg. aunty, uncle, father, grandmother, etc.
  So, Indhu what do you think?
  
  

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