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Would viswanathan-ramamurthy have shined in hindi film music?

Topic started by rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on Mon May 6 10:30:31 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The golden era of tfm must be the period when viswanathan-ramamurthy reigned supreme in the 1960's. Their songs have become immortal classics! Would they have shined in hindi film music, considering that they used a lot of hindustani ragas in their tamil film music? Just go to this website for a glowing commentary on their 1956 hindi film, Naya Aadmi:

http://members.tripod.com/~ATMJH/in4.html

Even though the songs in this film were well received, somehow they did not get any more opportunities in hindi films after this film. Would they have posed a formidable challenge to shankar-jaikishan in hindi films?
What do tfm surfers think?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Thu May 9 03:15:30 EDT 2002
  
  Even compare Sivakamiyin Chelvan with Aradhana. Mere Sapno and Roop Tera were really great. But "En Raajavin Roja Muham", "Etharkum Oru Kaalam Undu", "Iniyavale Enru Paadi vandthean" are far better than the hindi ones. At the same time, "Ullam Rendum" and "Ethanai Azahu" are just average.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu May 9 03:15:42 EDT 2002
  
  >>Pasamalar - Ashok Kumar played the elder brother to MeenaKumari. <<
  
  OISG:
  
  Is it Bahu Begam? If yes, then it had excellent music (by Roshan) as good as that of Paasamalar. of course, these are all personal opinions :)
  
  
  >>Bagapirivinai - Sunil Dutt played the handicapped son. The song "Lori Sunao" might ring a bell. <<
  
  Cant recall it :-((
  
  >>Punnagai<<
  
  Satyakam had excellent music.
  
  >>Nenjil oor Aalayam - Rajendra Kumar played the Doctor (Famous for "Sita" Knock Knock - "Sita" Knock Knock -"Sita" Knock Knock ) <<
  
  Ah yes, Dil Ek Mandir. A maudlin movie. With excellent music. And yes, by Shankar Jaikishan. (Of course "ruk ja raat.." was inspired from VR. And SJ had admitted that. What I love is "hum tere pyaar mein saara aalam", "yaad na jaaye beete dinon ki" and the RAFI-SUMAN "dil ek mandir" duet).
  
  
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu May 9 03:25:44 EDT 2002
  
  satsona:
  
  
  i dont know what u mean by melody in this context. KK has sung numerous songs like Koi Humdum na rahaa, many songs with ZINDAGI theme, Jeevan se bhari teri aankhen etc.
  
  
  True KK was quite good, but I just feel he was too shallow and way too overrated, and somehow those 70s songs of his are nerve-rattling for me. Cant help it, thats the way I feel :) U may differ on that, and thats fine with me. But he wasnt the one for poignant renderings IMO. Or devotional songs,ghazals. And those are the kinds of songs I like. And thats why KK is not on my favourites list.
  
  These songs mentioned by you dont move me. I dont consider them poignant renderings, they seem to my (tin?? :-)) ears as very mechanical. Of course this is so subjective :)
  
  
  Sure, SJ-RK combo gave some horrible songs in the latter part of 60s and 70s beginning, how can we ignore the numerous songs of Barsaat,420, Anari, Awaara etc?
  
  
  Yes I agree. I like even simple songs like "hawaa mein udtaa jaaye", maybe more for that pure timbre of Lata. Yes, aah, anari, jis desh mein... had gems like "yeh shaam ki tanhaiyaan", "teraa jaana" and "o basanti pawan paagal". Not to mention the stunning "aa ab laut chalein" for those enchanting interludes by Lata. And her masterful high-pitched adventure at the end of the song! Wow! Not to speak of "chori chori" (though that wasnt a RK movie) with Rasik Balama.
  Moreover SJ have some of the best LM-AB duets and plenty of them too.
  
  
  But look at Sangam! And worse still their bold misadventure of taking Sharda (of all people!). Surely love is not only blind but even tone deaf. And people speak of LM,AB monopoly. Sometimes I ROTFL at these remarks. Cant help it :)
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Thu May 9 03:51:57 EDT 2002
  
  satsona, I could afford to come out strongly on my take because I was introduced to the Roshans and S-Js much before I could get my hands 'dirty' with V-R. Therefore, the 'open mindedness' factor you have stated holds no water. Moreover, if you have cared to notice, I have held the others in high esteem.
  
  Let us pick up some not so great numbers (going by V-R's standards) 'nenjaththilE nee nEtru vanthAi','parakkum panthu parakkum'. Listen to the arrangement/harmony and if u still insist on sticking to your 'unbiased' perceptions, I rest my case. If not, we can take up songs like
  the first full-fledged Jazz song 'varavENdum oru pozhuthu', 'enna enna vArththaigaLO' and dissect the arrangement. When it comes to the main melody....if that needs efforts on my part to convince you....
  
  
  Now, now...let's not act clever. When I say formula music, it is much deeper than what you have pretended to understand to be. The placement of pallavis, charanams were pretty simplistic in several cases and followed a particular pattern. 'EVIL' is a relative term, arrived at, by comparing the prevailing standards then. BTW, Barsaat signalled the commencement of the 'Bhairavi' syndrome of the SJ-RK team and they religiously followed it till they broke up. As for the Shammi Kapoor-SJ combo, the less said the better. Keep smiling :)
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Thu May 9 04:02:56 EDT 2002
  
  avr, w.r.t KK, I have to go with satsona, for a change :). He is no doubt endowed with a great, instrinsic music sense but sadly overlooked from '48-'69 (the year Aradhana happened) , by which time his voice had thickened, but still IMO was vibrant and good enough. I have always held his first ever number 'marnE ki duA' (for Khemchand Prakash), 'A mohabbat ki basti' (for Anil Biswas) as beautifully rendered numbers with enough 'mudkis' for us to to start wondering when subjected to some of his later, uninspired/simplistically rendered numbers. To me, the advent of Amitabh era which coincided with RDB's exit and L-P taking over, signalled the begenning of the end.
  
  Let this mark the end of 'unrelated to TFM' talks :)
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Thu May 9 04:45:02 EDT 2002
  
  SL , AVR & others,
  
  I appreciate ur views. i agree to most of ur points, but for the remaining, let's have our own separate opinions:-)
  
  'Wise men can think differently too, need not be always alike;-)'
  
  "Let this mark the end of 'unrelated to TFM' talks "
  
  All is well that ends well:-)Subham.
  
  cheers
  satsona
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.3.9) on: Thu May 9 05:44:40 EDT 2002
  
  Lost movies of VR?
  
  Continuing with what rs (please give your full name)
  posted earlier, let us see if we can dig more and find
  out about some of the early movies of VR which seem to
  be lost. The Singapore mellisai mannargaLukku mudhal
  mariyAdhai book (compiled by Fim News Anandan)
  mentions tha following movies by VR:
  
  Jenoa
  marumagaL
  pOna machchAn thirumbi vandhAn
  sorgavAsal
  vaira mAlai
  kAvEri
  needhipathy
  Porter kandhan
  kudumba gauravam
  rathnapuri iLavarasi
  
  It seems that there is also one other early movie not
  mentioned there, titled jeyagOpi. It seems movies
  such as sorgavAsal and kAvEri were big hits
  in those days.
  
  I am keen to find out details about the songs in these
  movies. Does anyone have any idea?
  
  I am also wondering whether rs can encode the songs of
  senthaamarai and thendral veesum so that all of
  us can enjoy. The song azhagaana malarE by PBS in
  thendral veesum is the only one I have. It is a simple,
  melodious thAlAttu with a good emotional feel.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu May 9 10:57:48 EDT 2002
  
  SL
  
  You had quoted VR inspired Hindi songs.Can you list them?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Thu May 9 22:32:06 EDT 2002
  
  satsona, I was referring to the "only HFM" discussions. Not the one that you and I are arguing about. Please make your points with precise examples and we all can revisit those compositions and check if the instances of inspiration are specific to a song/meter/tune/beat or the overall composition style itself. If you do not feel motivated to do so, let's leave it at that.
  
  SK, there was a 1954 movie of V-R called 'pAthukAppu' or something where MSV is supposed to have hand-picked some choral singers and used vocal harmony. Any idea about what the pallavi of the song is ?
  
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.3.9) on: Thu May 9 23:39:28 EDT 2002
  
  SL:
  
  1954 movie named 'pAdhukAppu' by VR? I am not aware
  of it. In 1970 MSV did a movie by the same name.
  It was a Sivaji-JJ starrer.. a lousy movie and,
  as far as I can remember, had lousy songs too.
  I don't think you are referring to that movie.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu May 9 23:49:28 EDT 2002
  
  SL and OSIG:
  
  SL,You had quoted VR inspired Hindi songs.Can you list them?
  
  How about the reverse ? ;-)
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Fri May 10 01:16:30 EDT 2002
  
  pathukappu is a lousy movie with lousy songs. unfortunately, it was directed by Bheemsingh.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Fri May 10 05:46:28 EDT 2002
  
  sk, I know the fate of the 70s 'pAthukAppu' movie songs :)
  Let me satisfy avr first. To start with...
  nain lad jayee hain (Naushad) - from Ram aur Shyam definitely inspired the first line of 'vanthavargaL vAzhga' (by Janaki) in 'engirunthO vanthAL' and 'nAttukkuLLa enakkoru ooruNdu' (Billa)
  
  pyAr kiyA tO darnA kyA - When you listen to the line 'en uLLam ennum mALigayil' in the song 'unnaiththAn nAn arivEn' , though neither the meter nor the tune are the same, you can notice the inspiration.
  
  As satsona pointed out, the first line of 'ajeeb dAstAn hai yEh' is similar to that of 'Ayiraththil oruththiyammA nee' though the meter is different.
  
  OSIG,
  'gumnAm hai kOyi' by SJ and 'azhagE vA' both songs with an eerie touch have a similar flow of pallavi with a touch of Maand but the Tamil movie was released atleast a year prior to the Hindi movie.
  
  'mErA pyAr bhi thoo hai' by Naushad from 'sAthi' (remake of pAlum pazhamum), it is amply clear that 'nAn pEsa ninaippathellAm' is the mother of this song, with similar (not same) humming et all.
  
  Will be back with more...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri May 10 06:40:48 EDT 2002
  
  Sriram Lakshman:
  
  Thanks a real lot!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 208.61.227.242) on: Fri May 10 11:04:03 EDT 2002
  
  SL, I am trying to recall from memory, not sure about this, but did "neeyo naano yaar nilave?" from Mannaathi Mannan appear in Hindi? If so which version came out first?
  
  

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