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Would viswanathan-ramamurthy have shined in hindi film music?

Topic started by rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on Mon May 6 10:30:31 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The golden era of tfm must be the period when viswanathan-ramamurthy reigned supreme in the 1960's. Their songs have become immortal classics! Would they have shined in hindi film music, considering that they used a lot of hindustani ragas in their tamil film music? Just go to this website for a glowing commentary on their 1956 hindi film, Naya Aadmi:

http://members.tripod.com/~ATMJH/in4.html

Even though the songs in this film were well received, somehow they did not get any more opportunities in hindi films after this film. Would they have posed a formidable challenge to shankar-jaikishan in hindi films?
What do tfm surfers think?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Wed May 8 05:01:44 EDT 2002
  
  SL:
  
  About SJ, I can agree with u only partially - fine in late 60s they did too much of that cliched apoor stuff. But movies like Mayurpankh, Basant Bahaar, Amrapali, Mere Huzoor, Lal Pathhar, Seema, aas ka panchhi, halaku really had SJs best output. And yes,output very much comparable to the best of the best.
  
  In Raj Kapoor movies especially they put up a poor show IMO. (And these were the very ones that one them awards. Naaz, what d'you have to say on this? And Khalid Mohammed did write rave reviews about those ones :)) ) I disliked Mera Naam Joker, Sangam and many other such songs...though some songs in RK movies were quite good. Moreover SJ did do a poor job in Brahmachaari, Pagla Kahin Ka etc.
  
  Coming back to the point - if MSV-TKR had decided to hold on in HFM, they definitely would have reached the top. For sure. (provided they had picked up the language well).
  
  SL - Slight correction.Hridaynath didnt exactly remain in Marathi bounds. His non-film Hindi songs and also Bengali songs (most of the latter recycled from Marathi) were quite fabulous.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Wed May 8 05:02:52 EDT 2002
  
  typo "apoor" in the first line is SHAMMI KAPOOR. :-)
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed May 8 05:37:17 EDT 2002
  
  AVR
  
  I share your views on SJ -Rajakapoor combo.They were just jacked-up because of RK name.For eg a score like "Around the world" (Sharada-Mukesh) song clearly proves your point.
  
  But SJ, i feel brought the "Less-Classical" approach different from Naushad who was like GR here.
  Naaz has taken a break!
  
  Lets talk about reverse swing -the tamil movies remade in Hindi.They are all showcases of VR s supremacy.Also the Hindi press would have nevre made the comparisions with the Tamil originals.
  
  Servar Sundarm-Mein Sundar Hoon- SJ did little justice.
  
  Palum pazhamum - Naushad had made open statments about VR hangover
  
  Kadhalikka Neramillai - Grrr..Grrr..Vayatherchal
  
  Nenjil oor alayam - Simply the MD let Sridhar down in "Sonnathu needhaa"
  
  Kaviyathalaivi - I think Rajesh Khanna played Sowcar Janaki Role!!!!(????) The songs of KT like "Kanna Sugama" are a real threat to all HFMDs who were supposed to be trained in Hindustani music.
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed May 8 06:28:52 EDT 2002
  
  Kaviyathalaivi - I think Rajesh Khanna played Sowcar Janaki Role!!!!(????)
  
  :-))) ROTFL
  
  OISG but be ready to save urselves coz my father is coming to beat u (he is a sort of H.C. Rajesh Khanna Fan, mainly bcos of Kishore).
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Wed May 8 06:30:25 EDT 2002
  
  Rajesh Khanna, RDB and Kishore trio was IMO the worst thing that happened to HFM.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed May 8 08:35:54 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps
  
  Kishore did what IR did to Mike Mohan.Now i know you would be there to protect me!!
  
  AVR ,are we changing sides?
  
  Kishore was gods gift to HFM.To compensate ,God cursed it Rajesh Khanna.Avanum ...Pantukku mela beltum..
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Wed May 8 09:12:30 EDT 2002
  
  >>Kishore was gods gift to HFM<<
  
  NO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY :-))
  
  Melody in HFM dropped dead in the arena of male playback singing on THE day when Kishore became the most sought-after singer :)
  
  
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed May 8 09:49:30 EDT 2002
  
  DIG - Discussing HFM / Kishore
  
  Kishore s wasn t perfect voice ala Rafi,Dey,HK,TMS,SPB,KJY s.IMO he was the first Hindi playback singer to have undestood what "PLAYBACK SINGING" is all about.
  
  ARR would have jumped at his voice for he always prefers lesser perfect voices which are more human and emote well.
  
  I think the problem was his image and the period "the rebel 60s".MDs like Naushad,SJ,MM,Qayyam,OPN etc who were old-fashioned "Conservative 50s" found his voice not to their liking.RDB perfectly picked the mood of the mass and picked Kishore.
  
  Yes,staying back ,Dey haunts you,Rafi soothes you but Kishore was the only one who tried to reach you. The fault was on the MDs IMO.A "Gaatha Rahe" from SDB thru Kishore is a perfect example.A common man s voice yet with perfect emotions.(END DIG)
  
  Coming back to VR, was not knowing Hindi an impediment to them ? I never thought so.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Wed May 8 13:08:26 EDT 2002
  
  OISG, add enga mAmA-Brahmachari & sivantha maN-Dharthi to your list, though the "R" element in V-R is absent in these cases:). Let S-J compose half a melody like 'oru nALilE' in sivantha maN. I am not saying that V-R would have wiped out all competetion in HFM, they would have certainly held their own, that's all.
  
  Not knowing the nuances of a language can be an impediment while working on pre-written lyrics. The reason why Salil preferred dishing out meters for lyrics to be fitted into (in MalFM and TFM). Same with S-J in their TeFM forays. But they carried through their 'one line stanza' hangover into TeFM too, which was pointed to by SPB in the finals of 'pAduthA theeyagA'.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu May 9 00:18:25 EDT 2002
  
  >>Coming back to VR, was not knowing Hindi an impediment to them ? I never thought so.<<
  
  Of course. Why not? I still hold the same for many southern singers making forays into HFM too.
  
  >>IMO he was the first Hindi playback singer to have undestood what "PLAYBACK SINGING" is all about. <<
  
  I do feel this is a subjective statement. Rafi,MDey were no less as playback singers. they did modulate his voice for diff. actors, didnt he? they did have the ability to bring about humour even in classical numbers without overdoing it. (Ajahuna aaye balama, hum to izhaar-e-haal kar baithhe, phul gendwa na maaro, hato kahe ko jhhothhi, na banaao batiyaan etc). They did sing nearly all the types of songs from the soulful ones to the nonsensical ones. They have sung plenty of "common man's" numbers too. Examples abound.
  
  anyways, the RAFI-KK war is never-ending :-)
  
  
  SL, I guess I might have to disagree with you about SJ :)
  
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu May 9 01:07:51 EDT 2002
  
  How were the songs of Hindi versions of
  
  Pasamalar
  Baga pirivinai
  Kalyana Parisu ( MD is AM Raja)
  Punnagai (MSV-KB)
  Deiva Magan ( Is it the one in which a Scare-less DK plays a Blind man?)
  
  Vis-a-vis their Tamil equivalants.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu May 9 01:11:34 EDT 2002
  
  oisg:
  and which were the Hindi versions of the above movies. I cant recall :)
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Thu May 9 01:12:26 EDT 2002
  
  >>Deiva Magan ( Is it the one in which a Scare-less DK plays a Blind man?) <<
  
  If this is Bairaag, there is nothing wrong in DILIP KUMARs acting in this one (or any other movie for that matter).
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Thu May 9 02:04:12 EDT 2002
  
  SL
  
  I have interacted with some knowledgable Music critics who are not quite Open-minded in their approach to different MDs, where their favouritism overcomes a Neutral decision. I guess u are one of them. I respect your opinions, but i agree to disagree:-)
  
  I never said anything is wrong about VR getting inspired( or anyone else, unless it is a direct copy as Veda or Deva(for some songs) used to do. So there is no question of that, but still i can't agree that VR had a complete different new style from HFM composers at that time as IR or ARR(now pls don't raise points about the DIGITAL recording and all that, i am saying mainly about the flow of music and usage of instruments.)
  
  if u call SJ formula music, then it is true for any composer. Music from a particular MD is identifiable bcos of their style of composing different songs. ARR has been accused of repetition. Of course, this will differ if the Music is from different sources(like Deva followed the IR style of composing, till ARR came, and now Deva follows the ARR style):-)
  
  To make music appeal to the masses, i agree SJ, OPN etc. were different from the others whom u mentioned. I don't feel anything wrong in that, and certainly not "EVIL". They were still creative. Roshan, Madanmohan etc. produced superb numbers, but were not so commercially successful, but we can't blame SJ or OPN's music for that.
  
  but we share a common note, i feel when u said about SJ's failure in Telugu and Bhojpuri. i feel the reason is Adaptability to the particular audience response. This is evident from ARR's achievement throughout India, when compared to IR or VR. does this mean that their music was anything less. definitely a BIG No.
  
  
  FyI, i have made all these comments after visiting most of the creations of MSV-TKR( sorry i can't mention the whole list now:)
  
  All judgements appear sound to the one who makes it(including me).
  Since no one is an authority, we agree to disagree:-).
  
  
  
  AVR
  i second your thts about SJ and your other posts. but i sincerely disagree with this stmt.
  "Melody in HFM dropped dead in the arena of male playback singing on THE day when Kishore became the most sought-after singer :) "
  
  i dont know what u mean by melody in this context. KK has sung numerous songs like Koi Humdum na rahaa, many songs with ZINDAGI theme, Jeevan se bhari teri aankhen etc.
  
  Sure, SJ-RK combo gave some horrible songs in the latter part of 60s and 70s beginning, how can we ignore the numerous songs of Barsaat,420, Anari, Awaara etc? Just bcos they were commercially successful too, we can't say that these were not good songs. it is a mentality sympathetic to those who couldnt make it very big(Madanmohan, roshan etc.). If it was Bappi lahiri, surely i agree that his stupid tunes became successful commercially, even though musically they were just horrible:-), even when copied.
  
  cheers
  satsona
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu May 9 02:31:46 EDT 2002
  
  Satsona
  
  Please dont mention that "Pabi" Lahiri.He is an insult to mankind and an apology to the music profession.
  
  The SJ-RK combo you mention are in 50s.What about 1960s?
  
  AVR
  
  Pasamalar - Ashok Kumar played the elder brother to MeenaKumari.
  Bagapirivinai - Sunil Dutt played the handicapped son. The song "Lori Sunao" might ring a bell.
  Punnagai - SatayKam (i think)
  Kalyana parisu - I cant recall.
  Nenjil oor Aalayam - Rajendra Kumar played the Doctor (Famous for "Sita" Knock Knock - "Sita" Knock Knock -"Sita" Knock Knock )
  
  SL "Brahmachari" was brought to Tamil as "Enga Mama".I had mentioned my list of Tamil originals remade in Hindi.(STill "Chella Kiligalam" is light years ahead of "Me Gavu tum so ja")
  
  

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