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Would viswanathan-ramamurthy have shined in hindi film music?

Topic started by rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on Mon May 6 10:30:31 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The golden era of tfm must be the period when viswanathan-ramamurthy reigned supreme in the 1960's. Their songs have become immortal classics! Would they have shined in hindi film music, considering that they used a lot of hindustani ragas in their tamil film music? Just go to this website for a glowing commentary on their 1956 hindi film, Naya Aadmi:

http://members.tripod.com/~ATMJH/in4.html

Even though the songs in this film were well received, somehow they did not get any more opportunities in hindi films after this film. Would they have posed a formidable challenge to shankar-jaikishan in hindi films?
What do tfm surfers think?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue May 7 08:41:59 EDT 2002
  
  RS
  
  Thanx.Was the Telugu-remake of Karnan by VR?
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.32.168) on: Tue May 7 08:52:29 EDT 2002
  
  Any body here knows who did the orchestration in VR songs?V or R?Amazing the way they changed course of film music in south(along with KVM during the same period).I must admit however,VR combo gives me a fufilment on hearing which very few songs of MSV or TR doing it solo give me.Somehow the soul of their success went out when they split.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 208.51.40.107) on: Tue May 7 09:11:10 EDT 2002
  
  Msv did get chances to compose for hindi, infact he has written few lines of hindi lyrics. However he was not comforable with the work ethics in North. Hence decided to stick to south , where he had more directors to work for. He mentioed this in old interview for DD , (some time in 1980's).
  
  It seems long time ago in 60's he teamed with a lyric writer to compose for a hindi movie. The lyric writer could not get the pallavi for his tune, it so happened that msv wrote/sang the first few lines as he composed the tune and then the lyrics writer go inspired and he went on and completed the song.
  
  I dont remember the song or the lyric writer,
  people who are know msv personally can ask him more about it.
  
  
• From: rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on: Tue May 7 09:16:56 EDT 2002
  
  Yaaro,
  Please see my posting at:
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/768.4.html
  
  When MSV and TKR were in Singapore in June 1999 to be feliciated for their contributions to tfm, the organizers, GMT Jewellers, brought out a souvenir magazine. Alluding to their association in an article in the magazine, TKR mentioned that he was nothing without MSV, and that MSV was nothing without him. They worked as an inseparable duo.
  
  I think it would be more appropriate to mention that VR have joint ownership of all their compositions. Because MSV is far more publicity-savvy than TKR, who is very quiet and unassuming by nature, there may be a tendency to attribute more credit to MSV than to TKR.
  
  The compositions by VR are certainly far more melodius and evergreen.
  
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue May 7 09:34:25 EDT 2002
  
  rs
  
  Sorry.
  
  Sadhu Mirandal,then Mazhai,Thanga churangam,Naan song s are just no match for Ooti Varai Uravu &Kalangarai Vilakkam (these 2 MSV did after separation)
  
  Other than Kagitha oodam (which was MADE popular by the DMK ranks!) and Vasantha Kalam Varumo ,Marakka Mudiyuma was a simple "Marakka mudiyum".
  
  The brake-up agreement was that MSV to do MGR movies and TKR to do Sivaji movies.But Sridhar and Kovai Chezhiyan (producer of OOti varai Uravu)
  broke the arrangement..what a break it was!
  
  Lets us not undermine TKR s contribution but lets not overestimate his skills.But as a fan i have felt that TKR s presence would have made tremendous impact in the recordings for "Ninaithle inikkum".
  
  TKR -low profile .. ok but MSV -media savvy..??? i doubt.He is just a plain man knowing nothing other than music.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Tue May 7 14:08:23 EDT 2002
  
  L-P and K-A were the Saturn influnce on HFM. Considering the great old HFM line-up of composers even S-J and O.P. Nayyar threatened to bring in the 'evil' influence. All those old HFM composers were great, each one with distinct composing thought process and therefore V-R with their originality would have found a place had they turned their attention to HFM. The fact is, they did not. And....their style was not a mix of S-J's and Naushad's. Any poster with the above opinion has not understood S-J, Naushad and V-R. In terms of depth of versatility in all spheres and prolificity, my personal favourites are V-R...anyday. No, please do not quote S-J. Lots of their 'light' songs simply did not measure up. About the 'true' contributor to the MSV-TKR partnership.....I will state some facts gathered during my conversation with the greats of the bygone era, at the risk of sounding fanatical :)..but what the hell.... MSV remained the contact point for all lyricists, directors w.r.t. aspects of song making. MSV composed the tune but sought TKR's approval before even presenting it to the director. The prelude/interlude movements were composed by MSV with TKR doing the fine-tuning and modifications he deemed fit. Obviously, TKR had a fine ear for sound and often brought in the 'calming' influence. 'MSV-TKR' songs thus had appropriate orchestration, simple and unpretentious for songs like 'pAlirukkum pazhamirukkum' and grand and interesting as in the case of 'varavENdum oru pozhuthu' and several more.
  
  As for Naushad's command over 'other' aspects of music, please listen to the BGM scores of movies like 'Aan', 'Babul' (of the early 50s). Great scores !!! He, more than anybody else (among the great composers) gets accused of lack of versatility, which I feel is unwarranted. This could be because he became extremely choosy about his assignments and therefore did not have enough market share to project an imposing presence. A true artiste.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Wed May 8 00:42:42 EDT 2002
  
  Can anyone tell the reason for MSV-TKR split? What could be the reason.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.33.164) on: Wed May 8 02:11:16 EDT 2002
  
  main reason ,according to magazine gossip,was MSV going strong with a famous female singer which TR objected to.These things just add up,ultimately they could not stand the sight of each other and split subsequently.
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Wed May 8 02:45:25 EDT 2002
  
  sriram lakshman
  
  i agree that VR were excellent composers, but ur post shows u r biased towards them.
  
  
  "Any poster with the above opinion has not understood S-J, Naushad and V-R."
  pasangalaa, this is the Final Judgement by Lord Srirama, ably supported by Lakshmana. don't dare to counter this:-)
  
  "No, please do not quote S-J. Lots of their 'light' songs simply did not measure up. "
  can u let me know the Level of measure?and the "scale" u used to do this? so that i too can try to comprehend this Immeasurable knowledge.
  
  
  when u comment, pls don't be biased. MSV himself is so humble to have admitted openly about some songs inspired( not copied!!) from Naushad, and of course, that his idols were SJ(which is obvious from some of his Interludes and songs).1 eg: Aayirathil Oruthi amma nee from Ajeeb Dastan.
  
  Again, i will never say that VR copied anyone(even their style was an unconscious inspiration). If u r an unbiased music critic, u may understand this, or u can choose NOT to understand:)
  
  and pray, may i know what is meant by "EVIL" in music(frankly i want to gain knowledge about it). Maybe u r still remembering Ravana in TRETA yuga;-)
  
  to conclude, VR duo was undoubtedly a revolution in TFM at their times, but if they had a new style(according to another inseparable duo, Sriram & Lakshman), why didnt they succeed in HFM? Please enlighten us.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed May 8 02:52:53 EDT 2002
  
  Yesterday in Sahara TV they showed the Hindi version of "padithal mattum pothuma".
  
  Shock 1: Dharmedra playing Sivaji s role
  Shock 2: I saw just 2 songs and pathetic they were.Lets list the songs in Tamil.. absolute jems
  
  1. Nallavan enakku nane
  2. Ponnondr kanden
  3. Thannilavu theniraikka
  4. Nan Kavinganum illai
  5. Oh!Oh! Manithargale
  6. Annan Kaatiya
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Wed May 8 03:16:48 EDT 2002
  
  >>to conclude, VR duo was undoubtedly a revolution in TFM at their times, but if they had a new style(according to another inseparable duo, Sriram & Lakshman), why didnt they succeed in HFM? Please enlighten us.<<
  
  satsona, VR might have CHOSEN to make it big in TFM. Eg: Sudhir Phadke chose not to do many Hindi films, but he made it HUGELY in a regional language (marathi).
  
  However Sriram Lakshman - when u say SJs light songs did not measure upto MSV-TKRs, then thats ur personal opinion and its fine with me. But I do disagree though I am not exactly an SJ fan.
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Wed May 8 03:24:48 EDT 2002
  
  
  avr
  i agree partly with u, but not fully convinced that it was VR's choice. It may be true, i don't deny it:-)
  
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.94.115) on: Wed May 8 03:29:41 EDT 2002
  
  The main reason y most of the TFM composers not shining in HFM is language problem (I feel so). English is the only medium. I could not imagine MSV and IR speaking english. But this case is not applicable for ARR who can speak decent english. Also remember most of the HFM MDs could not sustain in TFM. At the same time, TFM MDs always had crown position in other south indian movie industries.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Wed May 8 04:21:27 EDT 2002
  
  satsona, I know the MSV songs (actually pallavis) that have been inspired by Naushad's /SJ's creations and hold it....vice versa too !!! That does NOT mean that their styles were similar. It would be infantile to assume that a few inspired pallavis imply similarity in styles.
  
  Do you know how many songs of your IR's that have their origin in SDB's interludes ? That is accepted because that is what art is all about...results of inspiration from another source. And I am sure there are a bazillion inspired songs out there by RC Boral/G Ramanthan were actually the skill but not the inspiration that shone through and the source remains unknown.
  
  About S-J's formula music, I have explained this with examples more than once in this forum and any passionate HFM buff would not need any convincing.
  
  'EVIL'? Compare the creations of S-J and to a lesser extent, that of OP Nayyar to the works of Sajjad Hussain, Anil Biswas, Husnlal-Bhagathram, Roshan, Madan Mohan etc, it is verily a comparison between template music and creativity.
  
  Why V-R did not make it big in HFM ? The same reason why S-J did not make it big in Telugu and ofcourse in Bhojpuri too, inspite of having a style different from those of Chalapathi Rao and Rajeshwara Rao and the Bhojpuri composers.
  
  satsona, re-visit the creations of MSV-TKR, start from Chandi Rani/Devadas/Jenovah (1952) and go on till veNNira Adai/Ayiraththil oruvan (1965). I know that 'bias' in your dictionary means 'sound judgement' :)
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.40) on: Wed May 8 04:38:03 EDT 2002
  
  avr, very true. Sudhir Phadke and Hridaynath Mangeshkar can hold their own against the best in old HFM but remained content within the Marathi bounds. I really wish that they had stepped into HFM in the late 60s when the 'popular' stuff was well below earlier standards. This continued to be so till the advent of the 'rediscovered' RDB/Kishore.
  
  

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