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The most scathing IR criticism ever, probably!
Topic started by cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on Sun Sep 3 23:55:27 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I found this in the official message board of arrmp3 (geocities.com/arrmp3) run by Karthik, by someone called Pennathur. The write-up is probably the most scathing criticism I've ever come across of IR!!
cyk
Sites like aaraamthinai and indiainfo seem to be publishing motivated stuff about rahman.
let's face it folks there are still some people who can't accept the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer the Raja he was. It is not just that he has retired from the scene or something Rahman has ushered in a new order of things and has come out on top in a more comptetitve market. These controversies also have regional element to them. And please believe me I am not being parochial. Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo. The composers and musicians in his - Raja's - camp (all incredibly talented) who work on TV serials and small clips for the movies will never accept that Ilayaraja's time is up. And they have been naysayers for a long time. For some time Ilayaraja tried propping up his sons Kartik and Yuvan Shankar, who unfortunately aren't even a glimmer in comparison to their illustrious father. And Kartik the upstart and braggart needlessly muddied himself badmouthing Rahman. Today neither of the boys are anywhere on the scene.
The comparisons that some people wouldn't like to make are as follows:
Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?
While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song
Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions
Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja
Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now
Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then. While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?
In an interview on TV some years back someone asked MSV has Ilayaraja set you aside and has Rahman set aside Raja. To which the inimitable MSV replied, "No one sets aside anyone else. One: the listeners decide these matters as we just exist to satisfy their musical needs and two: only God can set people aside" Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too? It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo.
And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie.
Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)
The story of Ilayaraja is a lesson to all of us.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: NANBAN (@ 202.9.175.244)
on: Mon Sep 11 09:08:57 EDT 2000
TO Mr.Dhrogi, FOR "NANBAN You are no better"----THANKS.I KNOW I CAN NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING MORE THAN THIS FROM YOU TYPE OF GUYS.(THAT I UNDERSTAND AFTER SEEING YOUR NAME)
TO Dear CRAM:FOR "but i am sure we can do it a much more dignified manner than you have. i understand the feelings you have for IR, but if u tone down your response, i'll be a lot happier."
----DEAR CRAM,SORRY I AM HARSH WITH THE WORDS IN THE LAST POSTING.BUT YOU SEE, WHEN SOMEONE SENT A BOUNCER ON BODYLINE, ITS DIFFICULT TO PLAY CLASSY COVERDRIVES.I ALWAYS TRY TO HOOK IT.
TO DEAR nvd FOR "Nanban, can you clarify further who is Kuppuswamy?" ---THE TRUTH IN THIS "Kuppuswamy" MATTER IS ABSOLUTELY EQUAL TO "arr taught ir" MATTER!IF SOMEONE BLUFF "arr taught ir" THEN I WILL SAY "kuppusway taught arr"!!!!!OFCOURSE "kuppuswamy" IS AS IMAGINATIVE AS THE "arr taught ir" THING.
TO DEAR eden FOR "`LET THEM BE'---EDEN, IN THESE DAYS IF YOU JUST SAID"LET THEM BE" DOGS NEVER STOP BARKING ON THE SUN, I THINK THE BETTER WAY IS TO GIVE A GOOD KICK ON THEIR NOSE.
- From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185)
on: Mon Sep 11 10:19:42 EDT 2000
NaNban:
Please don't use caps. I am sure you can be as effective with lower case letters as you are with upper case.
- From: Venks (@ 12.25.43.2)
on: Tue Sep 12 17:16:30 EDT 2000
I think after 5 Years they may say that ARR was the person who taught music for IR.
- From: future_man (@ 136.206.35.10)
on: Wed Sep 13 05:00:31 EDT 2000
Venks ..
After 5 years...
ARR wuld'nt be there and there wuld be comment saying that ..." He came like a storm and was vanished as the depression vansihed"...!during this time IR will be composing as usual...!thats
meant by quality
- From: nanban (@ 202.169.129.72)
on: Wed Sep 13 08:19:02 EDT 2000
ok.ms
- From: nanban (@ 202.169.129.72)
on: Wed Sep 13 08:19:54 EDT 2000
ok.ms
- From: T. A. (@ 142.156.1.223)
on: Wed Sep 13 18:33:59 EDT 2000
Being an ARR fan I can most likely assure u that ARR won't be in the Tamil Cine scene in 5 years if not in 2 years or less.
Why? Bcoz he would have gone to the International level. His music will be enjoyed by everyone. Not just he indians/asians. He might occassionally do some tamil/hindi movies. I can't wait to c dat day to come forth.
- From: senthil (@ 138.89.35.242)
on: Wed Sep 13 20:05:04 EDT 2000
"Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo"
Gentleman - Listen to the songs in Mouna Raggam, Sigappu Rojakkal, Johnny,
oodupani etc., . Ain't taht music urban? Are "Mandram vantha thendralukku, or Minmiminikku kannil oru minal etal.. are being sung by the folks in the Paddy fields during harvesting, at Cumbum, Thenee...etc.
As a matter of fact, there are hardly any dimensions of film music that are un touched by Raja.
- From: Kanthimathi (@ 202.177.161.10)
on: Thu Sep 14 08:23:54 EDT 2000
I think our friend here has lost track of what he wanted to say in the beginning. Are we discussing the music of Ilayaraja and Rahman, or are we discussing the persons Ilayaraja and Rahamn? Considering the fact that neither our friend, nor other friends in the forum have any intimate acquaintace with either of them, I think it is extremely silly to make judgements on their personalities. It is none of his business, anyway.
Also, I think our friend here is making a invalid argument. Are we talking here whose music is better, or whose days are over? If we are talking about music, then there is no doubt who is better. Rahman may be birlliant, but Raja is a genius. Even the Royal Philharmonic realized that.
And I can't stand him talking so condescendingly about music from Madurai. Has our friend forgotten that right from the Sangam age to current day Movie celebs, the best of talent, and world class quality has come from Madurai? ANd if he cannot understand and appreciate the simple but poingant beuty of folk music, that makes life so much more beutiful, then I think he is not eligible to make any comments on Music per se.
When it comes to music that touches the heart, makes even the most simple to relate to, with strains of the grand Carnatic tradition cleverly woven into, then Raja has no rivals.Rahman may dazzle people with his unorthodoxness and ocassional flashes of brilliance, but Raja's music is like the soft breeze, gentle rippling water and cool moonlit night - beutiful, comfortable and very, very close to us.
- From: pennathur (@ 129.22.214.186)
on: Sat Sep 16 17:57:15 EDT 2000
Hi,
I am that guy Pennathur. And incidentally that's my family name and the name of my native village (Kilpennathur, about an hour's drive from Tiruvannamalai - home to Raja's, Rajnikant's and my revered saint, Ramana.
I am not being derisive of Madurai. READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN ONCE AGAIN. I know quite a few of the musicians I refer to in my post. And believe me they are incredibly talented. I have nothing against Raja's musicianship and that must be pretty clear again from my post. And my post was in fact not on his music but on him as a person.
I can write about his music if you are interested. But it is a fact that Raja's fans suffer from such a halo effect that they can never critically analyse his music.
There have been greater geniuses than Raja. Mozart composed his first pieces by the age of 6 or 8 and his first opera by 12 IIRC.
And Raja's karnatak compositions are definitley second best among his vast repertoire. He is in no way as good as KV (remember Paattum Naane, Bhavamum Naane and Mannavan Vandanadi) or the greats from Kerala, (hear the songs from Gaanam and you will know what classical film music is) or the great Sardar Malik (Anu's father) and his rare gem - Saaranga - sung by Mukesh or the ever lasting strains of Baiju Bawra - Naushad, Rafi and Shakeel Badayuni.
Raja is great. There is no doubt. But just look at what ARR has achieved in half the time (wisecracks and one liners wanted please!!) that Raja took. Two National Awards, a Padmashri, 7-8 Filmfare Awards.
Travel around Tamil NAdu or the interiors of Bihar you will find goatherds, chaiwallas, soldiers, ricksha pullers humming the latest ARR number. I will never forget stepping into a dhaba outside Mussorie one cold winter morning and listening to Chaiyya, Chaiyya from Dil Se, or listening to Chikku Bukku railu, chugging up the train to Ooty a few years back. Or that seedy bar in Bhopal in 1998 December, with the three piece band taking in requests for one ARR number after the other. Or that midnight on Vijay Chowk in New Delhi on 15th August 1997, listening to the live rendition of Vande Maataram, for the first time. If you have read Shobha De you must be knowing how she stepped into MAxims, Paris wearing a saree only to hear the pianist belting out Vande Maataram. Out here in the US Vande Maataram is still one cassette that you can find ("it moves so well sirjee"-one shop owner told me!)
And for this talk about ARR going to fade away, don't you think it is getting repetitive. I have been hearing it seven years. Perhaps you could tell Andrew Lloyd Weber or Steve Morse or DK Pattammal, Ravikiran, Bhupen Hazarika and a whole lot of others
If you don't want to acknowledge the impact ARR has made on the minds and hearts of the people of India suit yourself. But remember you won't find too many people around you to share your preferences.
- From: kk (@ 172.156.85.47)
on: Sat Sep 16 19:22:03 EDT 2000
Didn't those riskshaw pullers in bihar (your music benchmarks!) humm songs like 'payalin chunmun' or songs from sadma, or song from bol radha bol, songs from beta!? if fact these were songs much better hits than rahman's hits.
If just being famous allover india just what matters..no one knows subbulakshmi, so is she worse than alisha who is known allover india. South india is far differnt culture, its not needed you have cross it always to be great. If IR would have thought how many dhaba's, indian stores in US to capture with sindubhairavi, he could have made only a sothaibhairavi.
Crossing cultural barriers doesnt always takes place by merit. what santana cant do, could be done by britney.
We have heard what likes of semmangudi, subbudu has to say about IR's carnatic talent. We dont need your half baked critic for that, be happy with bihar riskpullers.
Many people to share our preferences!!. Sorry Iam the kind who goes for what my heart likes. Any morning i wake up i end up humming a IR song. I dont mind what my white neighbor want. When i get the music what my heart likes why should i mind what song is being played by UP dhabas and falkroad slums?? For me music is something more than, showing off your CD collections to girls.
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