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Is ARR Running out of Stuff?

Topic started by Ramesh Vaidhyanathan (@ gengw.gensym.com) on Fri Mar 13 15:14:51 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I listened to VandeMatharam in which ARR recycled his own tunes from Kizhakku Ceemayile and a touch of a song from Indira.
Also ARR's recent movies for big time producers like Ratchagan and Iruvar (except one song) and Dhoud in Hindi did not have any notable music. Remember ARRs last hit Minsarak Kanavu music was done long time ago.

If for a major album for Sony released on 50th year of Indian Independence, ARR cannot produce original music, then I have to come to the conclusion that he is running out of stuff. I heard that ARR is planning to cut down on movies and concentrate more on albums. Thus he will have to produce less and earn more.

Right now I do not see any difference in the quality of music produced by ARR and Karthik Raja. In fact I think Deva is doing a better job of providing consistant good quality music.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srinath (@ spider-wn011.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Mar 7 18:13:23 EST 1999
  
  You are barking up the wrong tree...
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Sun Mar 7 23:46:15 EST 1999
  
  Hello idhu, enna therukkooththu ? IR and ARR "i" vittudungappa. Paavam namma vaila romba kadi padaraaanga
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Mar 8 03:40:04 EST 1999
  
  ram,
  
  " Eventhough they can't stand ARR's so called music, they go and buy and listen to ARR songs as soon as it is released."
  
  That shows how 'objective' and how unbiased we are, doesn't it???
  
  If there are some faults , obviously i will pounce on it.Just bcos he's successful i won't go raving about all the songs he churns out.
  
  "if the IR fans remember these songs, doesn't that mean it lasted in their minds?"
  
  NO!! That means they r so badly recycled that anyone can find their original.
  
  U left one more accusation from my side...
  
  arr copies from various sources ,unlike deva(was leaving that accusation ,accidental or was it done bcos ur side can't deny that fact???)
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-18.il.us.ibm.net) on: Mon Mar 8 08:34:05 EST 1999
  
  There is no end to this IR/ARR fans clash. The bottom line here is - ARR is still doing well, enswasa katre is the top of the chart, people are ready to wait for his slow production,
  As Ram put is perfectly, 50% of the discussions here are about music, the other 50% here are IR worshipping, ARR bashing and trying to come up with the most creative way to find fault with ARR's songs.
  This is 100% true.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ s04.austin.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 8 10:48:43 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth:
  Atleast we are criticizing a developing product - onnu, rendu bug irukkum, adha konjam azhutham thiruthama eduththu kaamikkarom. But you are criticizing a tried and tested product ;-) Idharkku unga badhil ?
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Mar 8 11:33:42 EST 1999
  
  developing product???? i think we are all criticising "developed" products, which were designed and developed, so that the so-called developers contain their buys and improve the quality atleast in their future products!!
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Mar 8 11:34:24 EST 1999
  
  developing product???? i think we are all criticising "developed" products, which were already designed,developed and released, so that the so-called developers contain their bugs and improve the quality atleast in their future products!! (romba software vaadai adikaradhu illai??)
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ s04.austin.ibm.com) on: Mon Mar 8 11:44:21 EST 1999
  
  chandy:
  Idha ingeyae vittuta nalladhunnu yenakku thonudhu. Illana, naan apparum versioning pathi ellam pesavendiyirukkum ;-)
  
  
• From: rama (@ 166.37.14.241) on: Mon Mar 8 18:11:42 EST 1999
  
  ARR had never had great stuff. Well why iam saying this is, he says that he takes one year for a movie and almost a month for a song. I think that is enough time for him to come out with master pieces, right.
  I dont think many of his songs making a mark at the first listening. They get to our minds after repeated hearing.
  All his famous song's catchy beats are all lifts from english songs, for this he doesnt have to work for one year on a movie.
  He banks mostly on his digital recording, and he is oft repeating his songs, well IR too does it but after these many years and after several hundred movies.
  
  
  
• From: rama (@ 166.37.14.241) on: Mon Mar 8 18:19:22 EST 1999
  
  And guys if you listen to ARR's songs, all his carnatic song will have same style, folk songs have same style, similarly others.
  All his famous stuffs like "telephone mani pol" "humma humma" "muqaala muqabla" and ofcourse the one's from Roja are all lifts and i dont think you need a stuffy guy or a isai puyal to do it. Deva could do it.
  
  
  
  
• From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Mon Mar 8 19:11:55 EST 1999
  
  Rama,
  
  Well, so you mean to say that a person with no stuff can be on top (not by no. of albums per year) for 8 years? So you mean to say that a person with no stuff is the most sought after MD not only in TN but also in Bollywood. And, so many people eagerly await his next album even if he doesn't have stuff? C'mon!!! ARR surely had, and has, stuff. I won't call many of his songs as ever-lasting. But, that doesn't mean he has no stuff. He is doing something new and that, he is doing better. He understands people's taste much better than any other MD and gives music that is liked by them. Famous stuffs like "telephone mani pol", "humma humma"? Yes. I, too, am worried about the fact that ARR is much appreciated for such songs than for the melodious songs he has given. And, to give a sweeping statement that all his famous songs are lifts is also not correct. (There are several threads that has discussions on this)
  
  
• From: Uma (@ ppp-189-196.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Mon Mar 8 21:21:51 EST 1999
  
  ARR very conveniently bases his songs on very old Tamil film songs. The song 'Ae Ajnabi' (sorry I don't know the words of the Tamil Version) is loosely based on 'Pirakkum bodhum azhugindraan" sung by ChandraBabu in "Kavalai Illa Manithan"
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Tue Mar 9 02:47:35 EST 1999
  
  Let me jot down the melodies of ARR which have been seriously overlooked.
  
  (1)Anpendra Mazayilae
  (2)Oh vennila
  (3)Thendrale thendrale (beautiful number , but grossly unpopular)
  (4)O nenje nenje
  (5)Kaathtu kaathu pudhu kaathu
  (6)Uyirum neeyae
  (7)Sevvanam sinnappeN
  (8)minnalae
  (9)Chiththirai nilavu
  (10)Kanava illai kaatra
  (11)sahiyae nee thaan thunaiyae
  (12)Orunaal oru pozuthu
  (13)then kizakku cheemayilae
  (14)Rasathi en usiru
  (15)Kaththazan kaattu vazhi
  (16)En kaadhalae
  (17)theme music from Ratchakan
  (18)Naalai ulagam illai
  (19)thoda thoda ( I amit it was popular but not as popular as Nila Kaaigirathu)
  (20)Sax lullaby from Duet
  (21)Malargale( was popular for Nagma only - a fine attempt in Raga saraswathi)
  
  After hearing "En swaasa Kaatre",I personally feel ARR is not running out of stuff .I shelve songs of the above likes and not "humma" types. When I hear to ESK of ESK I get a feeling similar to the one I experience with "Mandram vandha" and "Nilavae Vaa".
  
  I agree, he cannot be "Maestro", but is not an MD to be looked down upon. His melodies go unnoticed probably because of the lay, bubbly junta which tend to pretend to be more American than sane. The ostentatious cultural manifestations of the so called westernising generation are seriously the consequences of its cerebral vacuity and I feel ARR is not to be blamed for this. He sells which the wish though he sells occasionally which he wishes to.
  
  We dfers in US (and other foreign countries) are trying to talk "indian", but the situation in Chennai ... is just the reverse...
  
  
  All strictly IMO
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: Dazed Deer in Headlights (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Mar 9 11:01:54 EST 1999
  
  Murali Shankar,
  
  'The ostentatious cultural manifestations of the so called westernising generation are seriously the consequences of its cerebral vacuity' - Could you please repeat this sentence in English? Man! That was deep or what.
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Tue Mar 9 13:42:09 EST 1999
  
  Murali Sankar,
  I saw your list and I like most of the songs in it.
  Your statement <<>>. I dont agree with it. Because, ARR is the one who changed the musical taste of people from Indian to Western by coming with all kinds of western lifts. He is to be entirely blamed for "CEREBRAL VACUITY" because is the person solely responsible for it.
  
  I like the songs you have mentioned. But look at the list. 20 Songs in 8 years is it good enough to be called the work of #1 MD of the country. Maybe you can add some more like 'Enveetu Thottathil Poovellem.." and "Vennilave Vennilave..' to your list. But that isn't sufficient to be #1.
  
  IMO, ESK's songs are not that great (not even one song). It is not fresh enough to qualify in your list.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ barnes.ece.sc.edu) on: Tue Mar 9 14:08:34 EST 1999
  
  dorai,
  read carefully. murali sankar has listed down the OVERLOOKED melodies of ARR in 8 years and not all the melodies.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Mar 9 14:53:42 EST 1999
  
  Dorai,
  
  Whats wrong in exposing the audience to other kinda and forms of music? And ARR had done a good job of blending western and indian styles. I loved some songs in ESK.. theendai and Niagara. And if you notice ARR's albums, he makes it a point to have atleast one song thats classical. So one can argue about ARR's efforts in spreading classical music too.
  
  And ARR did NOT change the musical tastes of people.. people always had choices of listening to whatever they wanted. He just showed them the alternative shades.
  
  :)
  chandy
  
  
• From: CHAN (@ fulcrum.ece.neu.edu) on: Tue Mar 9 15:10:48 EST 1999
  
  Most people have time and again (IR fans) repeated the fact that ARR's music is short lived (IR's is not so). If u start to analyze this fact you will see that ARR's songs have multiple things going and which makes it difficult to get the hang of the song the first time. Infact in most songs there is something so catchy that you sense the first time and which drives you to listen to the song again immediately. This time you sense something else more appealing and u want to listen to the song again. This goes on till you become subconciously thorough with the song. That is to say you become so adept with the song that you tend to overlook it. This style has its own adv and dis adv.
  
  Songs of IR on the other hand are more simple,this in no way undermines the inherent complexity of composing the song, and so it is easy to form a pattern after the first listening. However his songs, i feel, cannot be listened to more no of times at a stretch. Songs for instance from the film "chinna thambi" were such hits that i used to listen to them wherever i went. The sad truth is I cannot listen to them anymore. So to me these songs have had shorter life.
  
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Tue Mar 9 15:18:00 EST 1999
  
  Typo in my last post:
  
  He sells which they wish, though he sells occasionally which he wishes to.
  
  
  Dazed Deer in Headlights :-)))
  
  It was just an euphemism to call somebody empty - headed. I referred to the the sham or the spurious way of adopting things just because of the herd attitude.
  
  
  Dear Dorai,
  
  While understanding your grief about the output rate of ARR, I wish to place before you the background of IR and ARR. Easy it is, to call IR a folk musician and ARR a jazz musician, but little do we realize at the same time that IR is also a Gold medalist in Western Classical Guitar. Hope you will agree to the fact that knowledge accelerates creativity. I am for IR when you make a comparison on the platform of spontaniety. But what I have clearly outlined in my post is that, ARR is not responsible for what the mediocrity that is prevailing in the TFM at present. Rather, the so called "modernising junta" are responsible.
  
  Tenty songs in 8 years- a low number indeed and a minuscule when compared with IR. But, this is no excuse for overlooking his effort.
  
  As for as ESK goes, I had written in an the recycle thread about the way he has switched the swaras of "adhisayam" song to gives us "thirakkatha". But I like ESK of ESK and it is entirely subjective and personal.
  
  Hope I have cleared.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  

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