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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: An (@ 195.217.141.65) on: Tue May 20 05:38:07 EDT 2003
  
  Joe/fake dinesh/whoever – now now, no need to get personal - no need to put any Kritis/Thevarams them on the web _ in fact I don't need to hear the Kritis or Thevarams, I am familiar with Panns (Scales of Thevarams) and Ragams (equivalent to scales in Western music) - all I need is the Name of the Kriti/Thevaram and the Ragam - I can make my own decisions on them and if they even match the Raga of the TFM Number they are claimed to be aligned to!
  
  Like Dinesh claimed (IN FACT THIS JOE IS DINESH) about Ennavale – totally baseless, it is neither in the same Raga or Tempo of 'veyuru tholi pangan'! Explain that? Who’s accusing whom now? Your IP address is the same, why do you call yourself other names?
  
  As for Jumbalakka - I have done thorough searching on the site - I can find nothing! If what you say is true, show some ‘ROSHAM’ and give me the exact URL or at least song names! Again, something totally un-substanciated from you!
  
  I am not trying to glorify ARR, I am just saying that if you/dinesh/joe bloggs can accuse all other MD's and being totally biased towards only IR, then I bring some balance on the behalf of others!
  
  I never accused IR of blatantly copying; although, I have proved with HARD evidence the FLASHDANCE/MOUNA RAGAM Theme tune dilemma! This you will never accept, as you haven’t even listened to the tune.
  
  I never anywhere stated that IR copied therefore ARR copies - my comment is that samples are available for sale, these are not patented, hence any tom dik or harry can use them – not just ARR/VS/KR/YSR e.t.c. but anyone, even you!
  
  How many western classicals have you heard? Have you even heard Nothing but wind or HTNI? IR did wonderful, groundbreaking work on them – BUT – they followed a style – Western Classical – He has named one of the pieces, “Chamber Welcomes Thyagaraja” – this is his homage to the great composer! ; I Met Bach in My House – here, he has used JS Bach’s styles, He did a variation of THULASIHARA in MAYAMALAVAGOWLA – Do you call that copying????? Not that is a KEERTHANAI – and IR used it for a piece! What do you have to say about that?
  
  As for as Western comparisons to ILAYARAJA’s MUSIC, please take time to read the following:
  
  “The sleeve note of Ilaiyaraaja's ``How to Name It'', details the number ``I met Bach in my house'' as a counter to Bach's violin ``Sonata No: Six''. So also ``We had a talk'' is described as revealing an ``intimate exposure'' to Bach wherein the number itself is a counter melodic rhythm for Bach's Bourree in E minor. Similarly Ilaiyaraaja's reverence for Mozart is evident from the melody entitled ``Mozart I love you'' from the album ``Nothing but Wind''.”
  Listen at: http://www.its.caltech.edu/~boozer/guitar/guitar.html
  It is in the Songlet section:
  bach.mp3 Bach: Bourree In E Minor
  
  I am just asking for the same courtesy in return. Hard evidence and not unsubstantiated statements.
  
  To quote the great Meastro Ilayaraja himself:
  
  "I still have a lot to learn. All that I do today in the field of music is only a precursor to something much greater that is to follow in the future. Why did Mozart make music? He prepared me. Beethoven prepared me. Thiagaraja prepared me. What I compose today is no new creation. I am only drawing on the ideas provided by them. And this may prepare somebody in future".
  
  FROM:
  
  http://www.ilayaraja.freeservers.com/ilayaraja-profile.htm
  
  Of course, he is modest and underplays his genius and says "I still have a lot to learn. All that I do today in the field of music is only a precursor to something much greater that is to follow in the future. Why did Mozart make music? He prepared me. Beethoven prepared me. Thiagaraja prepared me. What I compose today is no new creation. I am only drawing on the ideas provided by them. And this may prepare somebody in future".
  
  I guess the new generation of Musicians in Tamil Nadu, as I have re-iterated in the past, are following the music of their era, as opposed to the old music, IR followed! IR had his ‘disco’ days and days from other times, which have inspired him. If you accuse everyone of copying, when a style is similar or the same, then it is your loss in appreciation of music!
  
  
• From: Rajesh (@ 167.202.196.72) on: Tue May 20 05:39:32 EDT 2003
  
  An, Thanks for your suggestion. But, i guess my problem is that i DO read word for word. Look at your posting. you clearly have said 1996/97.
  
  ----------------
  From: An (@ 195.217.141.65) on: Mon May 19 10:40:40 EDT 2003
  
  Mouna Ragam came out in 1996/1997 as far as I know:
  ----------------
  
  and, see again you have mentioned that Pagal Nilavu was a 1994/95 release. i'm pretty sure it was way before that. sonna, word by word, letter by letternu funda vere :-)
  
  btw, reg my post, compare these lines guys:
  
  Yaaradi nee mohini
  Kooradi en kanmani
  Aasai ulla raani..anjidamale nee (particularly last line)
  
  AND
  
  Keladi en radhaye
  Aadavan un thevaye
  Mogam konda pothum..thaagam konda pothum
  
  I somehow find a similarity in the pattern. You guys feel ?
  
  
  
• From: An (@ 195.217.141.65) on: Tue May 20 06:23:24 EDT 2003
  
  sorry Rajesh - my bad.....It was a mis type - I am confusing my 1990's and 1980's in the haste of typing! Apologies....
  
  However, had you seen the link, it stated 1986/7 as opposed to your claimed 1983! ;)
  
  Yes, the pattern of your song seems similar. Do you have a link somewhere, e.g. indiaonline for the Keladi En Radhaye song? I would like to listen to it, as my comments are purely theoretical, not having heard the song! Thanks.
  
  
  
• From: Rajesh (@ 167.202.196.72) on: Tue May 20 06:34:43 EDT 2003
  
  Here is the link for the song: http://www.raaga.com/channels/tamil/movie/T0000054.html
  
  btw, ungaluku Nakeerarnu yaaravathu sontha kaarar erukangala ?! ;-)
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.199.143.149) on: Tue May 20 07:04:03 EDT 2003
  
  pagal nilavu was Mani's 2nd padam, Mouna Ragam was 3rd. Both came in 86/87
  Vazhga ungal sincere approach to debates :)
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 202.54.11.72) on: Tue May 20 07:45:21 EDT 2003
  
  1) "jumbalaikka" is copied inspired. Its taken from a spanish song in the movie "bedazzled". details in karthiks web page
  
  2) Mouna raagam was not mani's 2nd film. 1-pagal nilavu, 2- pallavi-anu-pallavi, 3-uthaya geetham(not yet confirmed), 4-mouna raagam. he had also written screenplay for another kannada film.
  
  3) keep you IR-ARR fights out of this thread. this thread has been here for quite a while without this stupid fight. continue ur fight in somewhere other thread.
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 202.54.11.72) on: Tue May 20 07:48:47 EDT 2003
  
  here is manirathnams list of movies and release dates
  
  Kannathil Muthamittal (2002)
  Alai Payuthey (2000)
  Dil Se (1998)
  Iruvar (1997)
  Velu Nayakan (1995)
  Bombay (1995)
  Thiruda Thiruda (1993)
  Roja (1992)
  Dalapathi (1991)
  Anjali (1990)
  Gitanjali (1989)
  Agni Nakshatram (1988)
  Nayakan (1987)
  Mouna Ragam (1986)
  Idaya Kovil (1985)
  Pagal Nilavu (1985)
  Unaroo (1984)
  Pallavi Anu Pallavi (1983)
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 202.54.11.72) on: Tue May 20 07:49:27 EDT 2003
  
  error in my 1st post its not uthaya geetham its ithaya kovil
  
  
• From: Rags (@ 198.204.133.209) on: Tue May 20 07:52:26 EDT 2003
  
  Jumbalaka...jumbalaka....starts off like "Vaangada Vaanga En Vadiku" song from the film Maaveeran. Also, the initial humming that comes in the Jumbalakka Song is a re-recording of an English Movie. The humming piece comes in the movie when a gang chases the Japanese Hero.
  
  Rags
  
  
• From: raj (@ 211.28.96.41) on: Tue May 20 08:03:58 EDT 2003
  
  An akka,
  if joe is dinesh who am i?? ungaluku ena ragam nu solurathukaga nanga o/l la padicha sangeetha notes elam thirupi padichu ungaluku ragam thalam elam solanuma???? athu sari ungaluku mayamalavagowlai ya thavira vera raagam onum theriyatha? ethukeduthalamu mayamalavagowlai mayamalavagowlai nu kathitu irukureenga.. r u trying tell us tht u r a genious sangeetha sihamani?? akka mayamalavagowlayum padichangalam western clasicalum padichangalam.. so wat? tht doesnt going to change anything.. still jumbalaka is a copy. ungalkuku katurathukaga enaya nal poora link theda solureengala? what u prooven is nothing... mouna ragam a small part of lov themy(not the whole bgm) sounds like flash dance..still it has its differences. thts y i told IR 2% copy na arr 30% copy nu. did i tell u i dont like other mds. i realy lov HJ, VS, YSR, KR, Agosh, IR even ARR too(copy king). so neenga unga unga "P" shave panitu poi padunga.
  
  
• From: raj (@ 211.28.96.9) on: Tue May 20 08:12:14 EDT 2003
  
  yea thts right.. after this An entered in this site arr-IR fight avanga puniyathula start agiduchu.. An if u dont like IR thats all right.. but keep it with u.. athukaga IR'a copy king athu ithu nu soli downgrade pana try panathey. he is realy a genious. u noe tht if u say i hate ir then no one will listen to ur comments.. so i lov ir sir, i respect him nu solitu varathu, vanthu IR has copied. he cut and paste but arr doesnt copy.. he uses only that raagam than cannot be called copy nu katha katurathu.. ethana per kelambi irukeenga??? now its clear rite.. jumbalaka is a copy.. ipayavathu accept panunga.
  
  
• From: An (@ 195.217.141.65) on: Tue May 20 09:12:51 EDT 2003
  
  raj/dinesh/whoever you are - U R out of order - swear words and personal attacks are not necessary. I am going to widraw form this thread -hope you are happy now. BUT U USING 'P' WORDS 2 ME IS TOTALLY INNAPPROPRIATE. Anyway, how do you know I am a girl - I could be using a pseudonym! Go check it in the dictionary......
  
  Bharath - This is not an IR/ARR fight. I was pointing out some facts - obviously in this forum, unless V lick IR's feet, every other argument is wasted. The problems started with the Bombay Dreams argument and this Dinesh/Joe/Raj whatever he claims to be, with the same IP and same email address is that one who blew it up inot an ARR/IR fight! I substanciate everything I say and apologies if I make mistakes, unlike all the rest of you! What is Karthik's web page anyway? I was asking for links - it would help if you posted actual URL's.
  
  I still don’t see a link to the music of Jumbalakka – with the proof that it is a cut and paste – to top this, it seems that not one of you have full proof, to substantiate this fact. Also,
  
  I never said I didn’t like IR - where do I say that?
  
  I was one of those people fortunate enough to meet IR at his residence in Chennai and I did touch his feet and get his blessings.
  
  I talked to you about Kedharam/Navaroj and just happened to mention Mayamalavagowla. I know enough Carnatic music to talk about it, unlike you. Go to the ROS thread, which is where I usually participate. It just happened to be that there were 3 songs in MMG (Mayamalagowla) that were discussed. Kallellam Manikkam, Sollayo, Thulasidhara from HTNI…. If given the opportunity, I would talk about other Ragas too. O’Level Music won’t help you identify Ragas…. And you, Dinesh/Joe/Raj – the NO ROSHAM MAN – still cannot provide a link for Jumbalakka/Bedazzled and Bedazzled came out way after En Swasa Katre anyway –
  
  BEDAZZLED came out in 2000
  http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1800359981&cf=info&intl=us
  http://www.foxhome.com/bedazzled/
  http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Bedazzled-1101051/reviews.php
  
  En Swasa Katre(Jumbalakka) came in 1999
  http://www.rahmanonline.com/movies/en.shtml
  
  Rajesh - I don't understand your comment:
  
  "btw, ungaluku Nakeerarnu yaaravathu sontha kaarar erukangala ?! ;-) I think I apologied for my typo about Mouna Ragam and it was certainly not a 1983 movie as you claimed.
  
  It was obviously a waste of my time writing on this thread!
  
  This forum is for free voice, but the minute someone tries to point out facts or come up with anything slightly anti-IR or pro-ARR, whether they are wrong or right, the lot off you pounce and try and kick them out, no matter what research they do or what information they may add, in order for people like Dinesh to INSULT/SWEAR/PERSONALLY ATTACK!
  
  I thought that in 2003, this would have changed, but alas, it’s not to be!
  
  
• From: (@ 195.217.141.65) on: Tue May 20 09:13:47 EDT 2003
  
  WHEN DID I EVER SAY IR WAS A COPY KING?
  
  

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