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Death of Tamil identity in Tamil cinema

Topic started by Ramakrishna (@ 209.179.214.237) on Thu Jan 3 22:23:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In the 80's and before, Tamil movies and songs had a flavor that made them unique. But in the 90's, there has been a slow but sure trend in Tamil movies where they have become more and more North-Indianized or even MTVised (if there is such a term).

Songs don't feature south Indian instruments like Nadhaswaram or the mridangham any more. Even the days of rich violin orchestrations of Illayaraja or Viswanathan Ramamurthy are over. Instead, the music has become more techno/pop and were it not for the lyrics, one cannot even recognize a lot of songs as being Indian, let alone Tamil.

Speaking of lyrics, the less said the better. Apart from being nonsensical, the heavy use of English phrases makes one wonder if these lyricists have secret desire to start a career with Motown.

Also why do most dance seqences feature Punjabi attire? Hello, these are supposed to be TAMIL movie about TAMILIANs.

How many times these days does a lead actress wear a saree and has a pottu? I mean, other than in Vijayakanth films.

Even other things insignificant ranging from background score to rolling credits at the end are blindly copied from Hollywood.

For me in my youth, a major portion of my cultural exposure to south Indian culture was through Tamil movies. I am afraid the current and future generations may not have that opportunity. Instead they would be stuck with watching dubbed Hindi movies because that is what Tamil movies these days essentially are.

I am not a Hindi basher but it is sad that regional language films are losing their identities to this relentless MTVisation.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Sun Jan 6 23:13:10 EST 2002
  
  In the era of scratching stones to do paintings using paint brushes might have been considered luxury! But now those are original art forms and latest technology a luxury
  
  Yeah! correct point Bharath. But mine was bit different. Im also agreeing that in the era of paint & brushes (or) even PaintBrush.exe its generally unnecessary to go crush some unripen fruits,leaves etc prepare the mix by hand grinding and mixing then using cloth and finger to draw. paint & brushes or PaintBrush.exe are like Servants for the work you do. Just being a PaintBrush.exe itself is not a becoming of artist, right. It doesn't "Create" any picture, right. In other words it is a "Servant" that doesn't create or directly help in creativity. It is an added feature. You may call them as luxury but still this luxury did not share the creativity fruit, does it? Earlier vaddikkadai gumastha/kanakkupiLLai will be sitting on the floor and doing the kanakku paththi-fication. That time sitting on a cushion chair and having a fan overhead was a luxury. When the same kanakkupiLLai sat on the cushion chair then he had started enjoying the luxury, nevertheless the kannakkupaththi-fication process never had any sort of creative input to his work. Whereas in the era of Computerized kanakkupaththification of Banks the skill/need of gumastha is reduced a lot. Aren't we seeing discussion for reducing work personnel in the computerised banks?
  
  My contention is simple, use tools and technology to ease or to comfort your work, your creativity. But never allow it to be your partner coz my fear is:
  1) it will not show human creativity/skill fully in the output/work.
  2) since it has the luxury part also packaged in it we naturally tend to concede the "take over by tools & technology", which is a Bad sign(IMHO) in creativity.
  
  My example of Bank gumastha may not be a creative one but i took it to explain my point, that is all.
  
  Don't make the tools & technology as partner and/or master; Have them only as servants.
  
  It might be difficult to distinguish the yellow line between having them as servants and partners but we need to do that somehow.
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Sun Jan 6 23:38:25 EST 2002
  
  Kupps goodone, :)
  Paintbrush cannot draw by itself, electronic music is not what everone thinks, some think there is box just switch it on - it is going to create music. The mordern musicans have to know 2 things now, How to program and use them and how to be creative with them. Pro music instrument are not casios with 100 built in beats. they are complicated to use , it is also a computer, it follows GIGO. so it will sound good only if you use it propery.
  
  also if you see paintbrush.exe has not changed from windows 1.0 it still cannot read many formats :):):)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Sun Jan 6 23:39:13 EST 2002
  
  >>Whereas in the era of Computerized kanakkupaththification of Banks the skill/need of gumastha is reduced a lot. Aren't we seeing discussion for reducing work personnel in the computerised banks?<<
  A very interesting point, kupps.
  The way I see it, using computerisation/servants reduces workload ALOT, but in the process, the requirements from the human has changed drastically. In other words, more is expected of an individual now than before. When linearisation of the corporate structure began its trend, we saw alot of middle management positions getting axed. But the result was that those at the top management and in the supervisory roles had to take on more workload. In a similar manner, more is expected from the 'human' worker now, as it is assumed that the machines are taking care of the mundane, repetitive, tedious and merely technical work. This only increases the scope for the individual to give greater involvement to creativity and 'thinking' processes.
  Likewise, I believe that using whatever servants applicable in creative work only enhances the opportunity for creative artistes to spend more time doing the actual creative work, and complete the work faster than otherwise.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 23:42:16 EST 2002
  
  There are 7 (maybe more) threads that are exclusively devoted to ARR's music/genius/status/contribution...
  There are threads on Harris Jeyaraj, Imaan, YSR, KR, and other New Generation Music Directors. I am sure they would appreciate all the adulation/compliments in those threads. Yes, these guys ARE popular.
  
  For those who want to address me by name: Here's how I spell it: Naaz
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 23:48:32 EST 2002
  
  Where's Ramakrishna?? The originator of this discussion group?? How about some of your views - on your own topic...yeah, how about it?
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Sun Jan 6 23:58:49 EST 2002
  
  >>Also why do most dance seqences feature Punjabi attire? Hello, these are supposed to be TAMIL movie about TAMILIANs.<<
  This line made me laugh!
  Before we go into attire, how about having TAMIL actresses for a change? :-)
  And why not show all men wearing traditional Tamil attire (dhoti) instead of pants or jeans. And how about showing traditional Tamil forms of transport like maadu vandi instead of cars and bikes?
  I haven't been to TN in 10years, but from what I see on tamil news, most gals especially those going to college, seem to be wearing 'Punjabi attire'. Movies have to reflect real present-day society, unless it's some experimental movie or a historical story.
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Mon Jan 7 00:00:39 EST 2002
  
  I dont know why people are ticked off when arr is raved. Current tfm music is dead is one of the topic, in other words music created by new generation right from arr - ysr- kr to imam are total waste. (oh!..i hear it....no one said arr is waste..or harris is waste), bottom line is the topic conveys this.
  I am very well within the scope of the topic explaning few aspect of mordern music.
  Now people opposing my argument please tell the world how do you say music of so called old generation (80's and before) that is pre arr era is superior? and why do you say it is dead now?
  Till now I dont see any points from our friend whose name I mispelled, thanks to my lower typing skills. Instead of complaining., Please argue with points, it is High time now, or you can also goto other threads, Ivanga current tamil music sethu pochu nu solluvanga, illai nu sonna --we need to got to some other thread to prove our point,nalla koothu da sami.
  
  Live and let live.
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Mon Jan 7 00:06:24 EST 2002
  
  why not :):) very good point...movies just reflect the present-day society.
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Jan 7 02:06:34 EST 2002
  
  Yep. Indians (irrespective of ethnicity) break out in song and dance on the streets, in the middle of the paddy fields, on the terraces of the taj mahal and jaipur palaces, on boat-trips along the kaveri....Movies reflect this reality. It is rooted in fact. It happens all the time. I watch Indian movies just for this reality. It makes me proud as an Indian.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Jan 7 02:22:35 EST 2002
  
  To see the points of our friend whose name you mispelled :-) please go back to a few of my posts. I was also advocating "CO-EXISTENCE" (your Live and Let Live philosophy) - saying excellence in technology/innovation can be alongside the maintaining of certain lyrical/singing/pronunciation/cultural standards. The argument is about commiting ourselves and our artists to finer standards, encouraging/expecting them to tap into the endless resources and riches of the language,regionality and cultural vastness which is known as TAMIZH, and enhancing our Musical Traditions with additions/expertise of newer technologies. Why can't both these things be intertwined??
  
  Nobody is ticked off at ARR or ecstatic about IR, or indifferent about MSV. They are all fine music composers. Don't deliberately misrepresent people and their views. Read previous posts - get a sense of the discussion thus far in its entirety - and then make your comments/criticisms. Taking posts out-of-context is not really going to help you or the discussion. Many thanks.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Mon Jan 7 06:02:16 EST 2002
  
  >>Yep. Indians (irrespective of ethnicity) break out in song and dance on the streets, in the middle of the paddy fields, on the terraces of the taj mahal and jaipur palaces, on boat-trips along the kaveri....Movies reflect this reality. It is rooted in fact. It happens all the time. I watch Indian movies just for this reality. It makes me proud as an Indian.<<
  
  Naaz, i agree that not everything in movies are realistic, infact alot of Tamil movies r simply ridiculous and defy all logic, laws of science and common sense, but to expect them to be unrealistic, just so as to satisfy the hardcore TAMIL IDENTITY REQUIREMENTS of a minority is even more ridiculous!
  I know Tamil movies are ridiculous, but I don't pray they become MORE RIDICULOUS just so as to satisfy my utopian ideals on how life on this planet should be. If there's something that IS REALISTIC about the movies for once, lets celebrate and encourage the trend.
  
  And maybe Naaz, it's about time u stopped taking this df so personally (just a friendly advise).
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Mon Jan 7 07:54:48 EST 2002
  
  Naaz:
  
  Though what u say is clear and I agree with 90% of it (as far as THIS thread is concerned), I sincerely believe u need to take an online forum more lightly. Most opinions posted on such fora are exaggerations. I think u take too many things to heart really too fast. There is no need to be so very emotional. All online COMP SCIENCE fora (be they on AI or COMPILERS) end up in a Unix-Windows fight :-)
  
  Also, again as I said, we have to accept the minus points of tecnology if we want the pluses. Thats life. Its never pure white or pure black,its grey!! After all, the film people need MONEY,their work has to SELL and their stakes are high. I repeat - what will sell today, an album of bhajans or a "rukmini rukmini"???? Its too late to change the way people think about Indian music. Things should have been controlled way back in the early 80s when the trend became "aping the west". Today,we have to accept it - whether we like it or not. A movie with classical music will flop poorly,disgracefully.
  
  
  

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