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Death of Tamil identity in Tamil cinema

Topic started by Ramakrishna (@ 209.179.214.237) on Thu Jan 3 22:23:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In the 80's and before, Tamil movies and songs had a flavor that made them unique. But in the 90's, there has been a slow but sure trend in Tamil movies where they have become more and more North-Indianized or even MTVised (if there is such a term).

Songs don't feature south Indian instruments like Nadhaswaram or the mridangham any more. Even the days of rich violin orchestrations of Illayaraja or Viswanathan Ramamurthy are over. Instead, the music has become more techno/pop and were it not for the lyrics, one cannot even recognize a lot of songs as being Indian, let alone Tamil.

Speaking of lyrics, the less said the better. Apart from being nonsensical, the heavy use of English phrases makes one wonder if these lyricists have secret desire to start a career with Motown.

Also why do most dance seqences feature Punjabi attire? Hello, these are supposed to be TAMIL movie about TAMILIANs.

How many times these days does a lead actress wear a saree and has a pottu? I mean, other than in Vijayakanth films.

Even other things insignificant ranging from background score to rolling credits at the end are blindly copied from Hollywood.

For me in my youth, a major portion of my cultural exposure to south Indian culture was through Tamil movies. I am afraid the current and future generations may not have that opportunity. Instead they would be stuck with watching dubbed Hindi movies because that is what Tamil movies these days essentially are.

I am not a Hindi basher but it is sad that regional language films are losing their identities to this relentless MTVisation.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.87.190) on: Sun Jan 6 14:26:21 EST 2002
  
  rasigan..I am also for vocals in the foreground. In many audio magazines I have seen reviewers comments that this is the way it should be (in the context of jazz vocals. Please listen to patricia barber, diana krall on a good system). I think popular music (including US/Europe) is dominated by rhythm oriented, 'in the face', sound engineered (compressed, heavily equalised) sound which is tailor made for car stereos, radio and consumer mass market stereo systems.
  Ambient sounds (like a bass line, strings, guitar vibes etc) in the background of a good vocals is always relaxing and mesmerising.
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Sun Jan 6 14:42:52 EST 2002
  
  Most dont know the musical principles followed by Arr. Some would ask back..does he have one ? I Pity them.
  
  Arr uses a differnt structure called 5 point music structure. We can find 4 or 5 of these elements in every arr song, his approach is differnt from most tfm musicians before arr we know. This structure is followed by many western bands like U2, philcolins, peter Gaberial etc.
  
  Vocal in the front/back etc are very small things in sound mixing, this does make a mix a super mix. There are sound techs which a common listner do not know. Using some of the great sound engineering priciples, arr's mix sounds really outstanding and can be compared other international enginees like Kevin Killen or Joe Ciccarellie.
  Till date no one has discussed here very clearly in what way arr is different. Points posted here are no way technical they are mostly "WEB"tical, meaning picked from the internet.
  
  as far as music is concerned "tamil music is not dead". Just because oldies are gone, it does not mean to death to the great art. This is a total misnorm, there are many upcoming youngsters singing etc, eg: the new vijay tv program, you will be amazed to see the talent. It is as good as before, if not better, there are more and more people getting into commercial music, it is not a reserved place any more, it is open to all with good competion, no more single entity domination.
  Which is good sign to get out more talents and split music from movies - get some private stuff like west.
  
  People in tamilnadu still buy music, people still listen to them and finally this cannot be decided sitting some where in the west.
  
  Tamil Music is healty for healty ears, mightbe Filthy for...If the cat closes its eyes world does not become dark.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 14:55:08 EST 2002
  
  RD Burman tried the whole "echo" effect (in the mixing arena)for a flurry of film songs in the 70s/80s (if you have heard Aap Ki Kasam, Heera Panna,
  Chori Mera Kaam, Shaan etc). As experiments/novelty these were fine - and the public went along with it for a bit. But soon the whole thing (when it began to look like a "trend" in mixing)started to sound "hollow" (just like an echo) and the brakes were on. He reverted to his old style for his later films (Kinara, Ijazzat, Zameen Aasmaan) - more on the insistent of singers and producers - with the sales of LPs/cassettes hitting an all-time low. The echo was boom and then bust!
  The buying public has more power that it is given credit for. The whole "makkal virumburaanga" thing is bogus. People spurs Revolutions. And not the other way around.
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 207.172.47.96) on: Sun Jan 6 15:00:45 EST 2002
  
  yes.. folks r doing a great service to tamil by giving songs like 'akkadannu nannga', telephone mani pol''aadi pparu mangatha'..
  
  According to me whosoever are involved with such songs are all 'Azhukku-Makkal'. they need to be boycotted , if they r brilliant why don't they help all go to the west and be a U2 or a U2000 and leave tamilnadu and save tamil music loving folks !!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 16:31:47 EST 2002
  
  So ajlg, is the fact that ARR uses a 5 point structure, make him and his music inherently superior/good/innovative? Or is it because Peter Gabriel, U2, etc are associated with that structure - hence ARR's using that structure in TFM - makes it good? I am not really sure what you are getting at...
  Why is this whole thread turning into a discussion of "engineering" marvels and ARR's glory/shame potshots??
  Please - this is a sincere request: Before posting opinions/criticisms - it would greatly help if we all read the parameters of this debate as specified by the person who started this thread. If we find those parameters to be limited/boring/illogical - then we always have the choice of keeping our comments unvoiced and going to another more compatible thread. But let us not hijack a whole discussion forum to suit "OUR" needs/preferences. It is just a matter of respect for the discussion facilitator and the discussants who find THIS topic to be of interest to do so.
  We have to respect that - above everything we may feel or want. Many thanks.
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.221) on: Sun Jan 6 18:21:54 EST 2002
  
  Eppo indha "kaadhal"-aiyum abathamaana duets-aiyum ozhikkiraangaLO appodhaan thamizh (Indian) cinema uruppadum. I was embarrassed when someone (who is not of our culture) asked me why the hero and heroines in our movies sing duets in our movies!
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Sun Jan 6 18:41:33 EST 2002
  
  Naaz more arr yes! you seemed to forget your earlier posting that included IR without any basis.Why? let us leave that here.
  
  No one is hijacking this thread, If you see I have clealry stated that TFM is not doomed, as mentioned by the topic creator. I gave few resons why it is not doomed by bringing in some tech stuff, just by saying songs are not good, arr copies, takes drum loops are very very subjective. That cannot be taken as an argument.
  
  To comment on the technical aspect of music by a md, you need to know it technically,. period.
  Try to prove something on your side by real meaningful points.
  Arguments like Music touched their heart and soul in 1980-90 but after 1992 it did not touch, better see a cardio.
  
  There had been bad lyrics right from day one when movie songs became commercial., like in the movie called nan-padaum padal there is line written by Gangai amaran.."Era putanam nera pachanam sontha mulla kani irunutha..." this is just a sample , there are many many junk lyrics written during this period, same trend continues, if someone says lyrics quality is gone down Then tfm should have been declared dead long time ago.
  
  Also Arr is the top md in the tfm today, we need to refer to his music. for many like you, 5 point struct does not make his music great there is also group which thinks mere WCM does not make a musician great and beyond par. hope you under stand. TFM World is wide! area not a small circle anymore.
  
  The bottom line for me in TFM: IR gave us a musical break in getting many WCM concepts that world follows to tfm, now it is arr who got one more concept which the world follows to TFM, he went one step ahead and took it all over India. As tamilian i belive this strongly, I can just wish that my people also start to belive this.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 20:51:47 EST 2002
  
  IR was included in my earlier posting(and I specifically said the period/cluster of songs) ONLY to substantiate a point I was making regarding elements of a song which emphasised music/culture/excellence. It was not just ad-hoc jalra. Thanks.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 20:59:00 EST 2002
  
  And BTW - I only asked what the point you were making with the Petet Gabriel/ARR/5 pt Structure was - it was not clear. I did not say ARR was not great. So please refrain from making pronouncements like:
  
  << for many like you, 5 point struct does not make his music great >>
  
  Read the posting, comprehend its import, and then respond. Don't have knee-jerk reactions.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 22:11:55 EST 2002
  
  Karthi - Enna seidhi? Roma naala aaley kaanoam? Vidumurai payanangala? Or just tired of all this thread biz?
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.17) on: Sun Jan 6 22:22:51 EST 2002
  
  Hallo Naaz! Answer to your question: Yes, in a way! I just don't have the patience to read postings that are long... hard... adhuvum 5-point, 3-point-nu ennavo physics padikkiraa maadhiri irukku. I am very much here... just watching:))
  
  (Another thing is that the more I listen to or speak about the songs I like the more I feel clinging to the past which I want to get rid of... that is striving to lose identity-nu vechukkangaLen!)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 22:24:52 EST 2002
  
  Are u remarking on my long, kannaravi postings? :-))
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 22:29:55 EST 2002
  
  Karthi - Striving to lose your past is a bit like trying to change the colour of your skin...Look what happened to Michael Jackson! :-))
  Keep your past(you don' have a choice about it). Cherish your identity. Learn and Grow Everyday! (My favorite,early morning Mantra!)
  
  
• From: ajlg (@ 151.201.36.243) on: Sun Jan 6 22:50:22 EST 2002
  
  Naaz how about applying to the same rule here.
  arr was referenced for the same reason. Let us let go the arr/ir issue.
  
  is the fact that ARR uses a 5 point structure, make him and his music inherently superior/good/innovative? Or is it because Peter Gabriel, U2, etc are associated with that structure - hence ARR's using that structure in TFM - makes it good? I am not really sure what you are getting at...
  
  then what did you mean by the above?
  
  The funny part is the creator of this thread says some thing on violin orchestrations of msv and IR, and techno pop has spolit the music. I had to bring some points on music that is supposed to have killed the tamil culture.
  
  I can also ask when you have great violin orchestrations or other so called tamil instruments how does it make tamil music good or great or superior?
  
  one more point on English words, simply think this as a partical approach, how many of us use english in our life ?, do we talk sentamiz 24x7,
  we type using english keyboards here, why are we netpicky to accept it in our songs? if you are so netpicky about tamil culture why you are accepting "hero and herione dancing", is record dance tamil culture? shouldnt they dance Bharatha natyam instead. Does the songs nethu rathri amma and ponmeni uruguthe proved something better than that what chicku buku railye failed to prove on "tamil" culture
  
  Tamil film industry is doomed, tamil culture is doomed are all only for politics. As far as an artists is concerened, he/she does the job in the best way they know. They try hard each time he/she works on it. They give what people wants. Majority likes it, narz: as you have told makkal virumburaanga is not bogus. Just think Who makes a md or a director great, It is the people, simply it is the people.This is commerical music, very tough competition. As far as tamil film industry is concerned bottom line for every producer is to make money, how to achive this - give what people wants.
  Talk to any producers, film or audio this is what you will hear again and again, they cleary know people likes and dislikes, they know to convert this so called likes and dislikes to money.
  
  If someone does not like this simply say you dont like the way they work instead of calling the entire industry as bad and dead.
  
  Death of Tamil identity in Tamil cinema =
  Antha kalathu BA is much superior than Phds of todays.
  Also narz, I clearly told my side. please read it again, there is no knee or anyother jerk reactions. The reason I posted your name is you used my name and I dont want to fight on others issues (yes! the good old ir/arr cold war)
  thanks for understanding.
  
  

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