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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: r.ravi (@ 106.houston-06.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Fri Nov 20 02:55:53 EST 1998
  
  Did somebody say just 8-10% of IR songs are good..? May God sympathise with that poor soul and give him a better musical sense. By the way its people like these who made IR feel like Albert Einstein in the midst of Nazi Germans.But the world knew who Einstein was.Simimlalry IR fought against a odd of circumstances not by politics,meeting CM's, attending processor release functions or media hype, but by pure musical talent.This very thread is a proof of that.PERIOD.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ usm-0211-171.wans.net) on: Fri Nov 20 04:09:14 EST 1998
  
  Hi Srikanth,
  
  You have this great knack of involuntarily provoking people into the discussion. Here is my list -
  
  Harmony - instrumental harmony
  1. Guru - Take the song Guru charanam and Aruna Girana deepam and Muthaaram malyamma - The harmony in these songs are so much that it would take a few times for melody oriented guys like us to get comfortable with.
  
  What about the En kanavinai Kel nanba in Desiya Geetham - How about the piece - when HH sings Mara vendum - look the shift in the notes involved there. How about the harmony when a group of chorus girls join with a new lines midway through the song ??
  
  2. Vocal Harmony - Have you heard Kathum kadal ulle oru - from movie kattumarakkaran - Please do hear the harmony when so many different voices burst into the scene at different instances - and maan I have not yet heard anything remotely, I mean it - REMOTELY close to the level.
  
  Rhythm - You say Dharma's songs are crap. Listen to the amazing change of pace midway thro the song - Manakkum santhaname - during "angulam angulamaaga ... " it is out of the world !!!
  Also the drum beat or whatever which comes in with such a different timing during second stanza - different from anything I have heard so far (I wont hesitate to add that I have heard a lot ).
  
  As a side note - do follow the italian/Hugarian style of drum beats during the start and the way music moves to the crescendo before the singing starts - ------ Fill in my feelings. You know that ! It starts with a G.
  
  3. Ragam and the fusion - whatever it is called - I call it IR's style
  
  Hamsanadham - 1.Pon Megham thaazathu - An exceptional song from Guru where there is fusion like never seen before. How about 2. "Nandavana Kuyile" in Ponnu Veetukkaran - If I am right it is based on Gowri Manohari -
  Also take 3. Meetadha oru veenai - from the same Poonthottam - it is an masterpiece of Reethi gowlai - like a flower blooming - the raga slowly expresses itself as you hear thru the song. What more do I want ?? My soul has been satisfied hearing these songs and every day when I go to work I am in state of ecstasy, but feeling bottled with all my feelings because I don't have any other friends of mine who talk such beautiful things except in TFM.
  
  But IR does not stop there! He comes up with unbeleivable number called "Iniya Malargal" based in Ahirbhairavi (but how refreshingly different from Vidugathaiya from Muthu) in the movie - you know :-) Poonthottam.
  
  This is all to try synchronize atleast in some areas with you so that we can discuss further. Otherwise, with views so different I won't find the necessity to discuss with you at all.
  
  Happy TFM DF'ing.
  
  BTW, these are all my IMHO :-).
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.172) on: Fri Nov 20 05:27:29 EST 1998
  
  Hello Mukund,
  
  " It's all right letting yourself go,
  As long as you can get yourself back."
  - Mick Jagger
  
  
  I can relate to your feelings.
  What Srikanth has done, I think, is to merely provoke such passionate responses. Or may be he has such strong feelings about IR and ARR, and may be, may be... he is the ONLY soul who 'knows' music.
  
  Well, just ignore those tall claims and accusations and ridicules, when you know the truth.
  
  Coming to the point of HARMONY, we all know that IR has produced some of the greatest pieces with extensive use of harmony, be it vocal or instrumental, or spacial... even in semi-classical tunes. Well, if ARR has done a good score in Nenjinile, good for him, good for us..
  Lets all wish him the very best. What say?
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: maha (@ 202.54.13.211) on: Fri Nov 20 05:32:27 EST 1998
  
  One influence which ARR could have had on IR is scarce regard for harmony and symmetry in composition.(top of the mind pieces: kalloori chaalai from "kaadal desam", 'nee kattum selai madippil' in Pavithra) And in fact this is one of the greatest "contributions" of ARR
  to contemporary music, for which he has many followers like Ranjit Bharot, Sandeep
  Chowta etc., Fortunately IR didn't fall into this
  trap of ARR.
  Infact, ARR's contribution is more towards making Indian film music like Western pop than being distinctly different from the latter, although crude attempts have been made in films earlier to ape the same.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Nov 20 08:23:37 EST 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  I liked ur comparison of ARR with PC (a mu-soft product!!!!-externally -terrific ,uLLa pArthA dhAn theriyum sangadhi,he,he, heeeeee).Was that "nakkal" intended??? ;-)))))
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-176.il.us.ibm.net) on: Fri Nov 20 09:27:30 EST 1998
  
  Guys,
  Mankum Sandame - a remake of Mangkuyele.
  Tell me some other song which other than the songs you put here.
  The Iniya malagal - wow great.
  Have heard aAdungal padungal in guru -.And raja managed to spoil it with his voice.
  
  Talking of fusion with classical music.
  Have you hear vanakam palamurai sonen by msv- set to a perfect abogi better than indrike en inthana...
  I did not tell this - balamuralikrisha mentioned it.
  you guys are not ready to hear any other music other than Raja's, So you will say what ever raja does is great.
  I am not so. I listen to all the enjoy everything.
  There is no doubt ARR has contributed to TFM, I will not try to convince you guys anymore.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Nov 20 11:50:23 EST 1998
  
  srikanth,
  see, u r dragging MSV into the picture slowly.
  Ur statements such as 8-10% of Raja's songs are only good and rest of them r "nothing but junk" naturally provoke those people like me who attain peace listening to his numbers.
  
  Any fan of Raja will expect an MD to be original. come on, won't U deride a guy who excels by copying ????
  soembody will say, the output only matters and not the way u achieve it.IMO, it's unethical to copy other's work without acknowledging it.arr ,deva, sirpi and likes do only that.
  ARR follows , as somebody had said, "multiple inheritance" so that most of it go unnoticed.
  and u tried to counter it by starting IR copy aditha pAdalgaL. what happened????
  Almost all songs which were claimed to have been copied by IR had some compulsion from directors behind it.
  
  FYI, AdungaL pAdungaL (guru) was sung by SPB and NOT IR.
  
  U mentioed BMK ,right. Do u know what BMK told about IR or u r tacitly avoiding those comments to support ur arguments????
  
  Raja has indeed made some junk songs, but ur statement saying 80% of raja's song are junk is childish.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Fri Nov 20 12:18:21 EST 1998
  
  UV you did not get.
  The songs mentiond about sounds like the adugal song. There is nothing new in that song.
  I dont remember starting the IR copying thread.
  
  Makes me laugh: Complusion from Directors behind thats why Raja copied! ho hoooo...
  
  
  Reason I put MSV is to say if you want to talk fusion we will talk about it there are many good numbers to discuss.
  
  
  
  I already told I dont want to convience you guys.
  I enjoy all the score,
  I still stand on that - 80% of songs in this decade from Raja are stereo types , nothing new - no dbout about it. Sorry if the work junk has hurt you.
  
  Regards
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ usm-0212-26.wans.net) on: Fri Nov 20 12:38:53 EST 1998
  
  Hi Srikanth,
  
  If because the meter of Manakkum Sandaname and Manguyile - (only the time taken for the line) they are a remake of one another then I have to give up. Their sandams are so different and the sandam is what fills up a meter. The meaning for a rhythmic beat comes only because of the sandham.
  
  If in spite of this u say it is a remake, then there is certainly a lot, other MDs have to learn when repeating tunes. ie.. to almost produce a morphing on the song to change its characteristics.
  
  Even assuming this is true - it does not reduce the greatness of other things in the songs which I had mentioned. BTW, you have not been specific about one point in that song among the ones I mentioned.
  
  Why do you want more examples ? In fact for the fusion point you have replied with only one example. Why not more ? becos I guess it takes time too.
  
  BTW not one person in this thread said ARR is bad. All of us have been arguing about your impulsive statement - only 8-10% of IR songs is good. How can your opinions be given some weightage when you start by saying - Poonthottam is bad now you say Iniya Malargal is wow great.
  If that was your opinion why did you say the whole album of crap ? Especially from a connosieur like you.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss06.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Fri Nov 20 12:39:18 EST 1998
  
  UV:
  I think Srikanth was talking about 8-10% of Raja's songs in the 1990's. Even I feel that IR's quality has gone down. How else can I explain the fact that I have not listened seriously to Poonthotam, Dharma, KM, Guru, this, that and the other, though I still listen to Punnagai Mannan, Mouna Raagam, Johnny, Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal etc, etc ? This degradation of IR's quality has been ARR's biggest influence, IMO. I think ARR has spoilt TFM by forcing (because of commercial reasons) others to *try* to compose like him. ARR is good at what he does. People like ARR for his kind of music. I wish the other MDs realize that people will like them only for their own kind of music and they will not really be appreciated if they *try* to score like ARR.
  
  Srikanth:
  There is no question of forcing myself to appreciate another MD just because he is around. I have not had the opportunity to experience even 50% of IR's magic. And already I get the feeling that I will only be wasting my time *trying* to appreciate ARR, Deva etc. Perhaps you have outgrown IR's music because of your long association with it. For people like me it will take a few more years before we stop getting *stunned* whenever we listen to IR's magical numbers. Maybe then we can start appreciating ARR for a change. But I am sure that you will accept that IR is THE BEST in his style of music whereas ARR is only AMONG THE BEST (outside India atleast, he might be the BEST in India) in his style of music.
  
  IR is supposed to have said to SPB in an interview that the change in TFM that IR brought was good for TFM whereas the change that IR's successors have brought is not good for TFM. I agree with this one hundred percent. ARR's music is good. But it has not improved TFM in anyway. It has only brought a western influence in TFM. IR defined (or redefined) TFM in his own original style. There are a hundred ARR's out in the world - as talented, as dedicated and as successful in their own spheres of influence. But an IR comes only once in history. He may not be as good as he was - but then again, nor is anybody else.
  
  

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