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thiruvasakam in symphony

Topic started by Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 67.83.146.59) on Mon Apr 7 15:33:24 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

http://www.thiruvasakaminsymphony.com/v_eng.htm#8a

Official audio release from Ilaiyaraaja.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Curious (@ 136.2.1.101) on: Fri Sep 10 12:32:11 EDT 2004
  
  Can somebody please list all the Great contributions of IR to the development of India and upliftment of Indian people?
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: app_engine (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Fri Sep 10 12:45:19 EDT 2004
  
  Curious,
  Please define explicitly what you mean by:
  'the development of India'
  and
  'upliftment of Indian people'
  
  IR's contributions can then be listed accordingly...
  
  
• From: Curious (@ 136.2.1.101) on: Fri Sep 10 14:10:41 EDT 2004
  
  I know you are all great devotees of IR - but I never dreamed you guys will start comparing him to the level of Mahatma Gandhi, Patel, Periyar and Ambedkar.
  
  So just wanted to understand how and what points are considered by you guys to take him to such a level.
  
  Please - I fully understand IR contributions to Music - do not jump on me.
  
  
• From: SSSSAV (@ 199.90.34.67) on: Fri Sep 10 14:33:29 EDT 2004
  
  Dear 'curious',
  Please read once again the above posts, starting from 'music-lover to app_engine'. No one was trying to glorify IIR but only to inspire people like you to wake up and do something positive. That's all. Now, don't try to turn it to a different direction.
  A mother may be illitterate but if she inspires her son/daughter to be of something, then she IS great. So, if TiS or thru that IIR does it to inspire people to realize our heritage, then he IS also great.
  Thank you.
  
  
• From: app_engine (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Fri Sep 10 14:49:23 EDT 2004
  
  Curious,
  I'm no `devotee' of any human being -neither I confuse a politician with an artiste! I do not even call myself a `fan' of someone while I DO ADMIRE the capabilities and achievements of individuals! For that matter, I admire the personalities you listed much more than IR while not being a `devotee' of any of them...
  
  So, please don't brand me as a devotee...
  
  Now, coming back to the discussion, please define what you mean clearly...then we can discuss about IR's contributions...I hate any `hate campaign', that's all!
  
  
  
  
• From: SSSSAV (@ 199.90.34.67) on: Fri Sep 10 14:51:36 EDT 2004
  
  Please read the corrected version [in the 1st paragraph, in capitals]:: I'm sorry.
  
  "Dear 'curious',
  Please read once again the above posts, starting from 'music-lover to app_engine'. No one was trying to glorify IIR but only to inspire people like you AND I to wake up and do something positive. That's all. Now, don't try to turn it to a different direction.
  A mother may be illitterate but if she inspires her son/daughter to be of something, then she IS great. So, if TiS or thru that IIR does it to inspire people to realize our heritage, then he IS also great.
  Thank you.
  
  
• From: app_engine (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Fri Sep 10 14:59:28 EDT 2004
  
  Curious,
  BTW, did you read `Haren Gandhi' as MK Gandhi?:-)
  H Gandhi is a Ford Engineer whose technological achievements in U.S. brought him to limelight here...I don't think those performing in India are any less genius...
  
  
• From: Curious (@ 136.2.1.101) on: Fri Sep 10 15:17:53 EDT 2004
  
  No, I did read Haren Gandhi as Haren Gandhi only - I also know about him.
  
  app_engine,
  The type of wording you guys use definitely make me think you are more like "devotees" of IR than fans. There is nothing wrong in devoting yourself to someone or something. It is your choice.
  
  SSSAV - Your explanation kind of makes sense. But I have my own doubts about TiS - let me not express it now, it will be prejudice - I will wait for it to get released.
  
  
• From: app_engine (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Fri Sep 10 15:54:11 EDT 2004
  
  Curious,
  what was `the type of wording' in my post that made you think so (that I'm a devoteee?) I'm serious...
  
  
• From: app_engine (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Fri Sep 10 16:05:30 EDT 2004
  
  Curious,
  I'm 100% sure you cannot find such wording in any of my posts...Unlike you, I consider each word of mine well before posting and can justify each of them:-)
  
  BTW, why do you start such baseless personal attack?
  
  Does it not show your inability to define what you mean by rhetorics such as `development of country' `uplift of people' etc? Why don't you go ahead and define...if possible, why don't you also list the `contributions' of those whom you adore...
  
  You sure are confused in differentiating `politics' with 'arts'. In addition, you're confused about `appreciating arts' with `devotion'....What is your motive in poking your nose into some interesting / inspirational discussion?
  
  Is it another `hate campaign' against those who appreciate arts and admire achievements of performers?
  
  
• From: Curious (@ 136.2.1.101) on: Fri Sep 10 16:17:14 EDT 2004
  
  app_engine,
  
  The "devotee" word was not used for you - please read again - plural (guys) - it was not personal attack. Sorry if you understood so.
  
  Please see it is you who is attacking me. I knew it is coming. (Thats why I wrote "do not jump on me).
  
  Let us not spoil a good evening. Have a good week end.
  
  
• From: app_engine (@ 136.1.1.154) on: Fri Sep 10 16:31:12 EDT 2004
  
  Curious,
  Thanks for excluding me from `you guys'...
  Enjoy your weekend...
  
  
• From: SSSSAV (@ 199.90.34.67) on: Fri Sep 10 17:38:25 EDT 2004
  
  If not anything, 'curious' succeeded in pushing some stimulating dialog to the prior page!
  I request those visiting this thread to go back to read them and continue the good conversatin. Thanks.
  YIA!!
  
  
• From: SSSSAV (@ 199.90.34.67) on: Fri Sep 10 17:40:05 EDT 2004
  
  BTW, the official audio message in Nov.,'03 which I had referred is here at the top of this page.
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri Sep 10 19:12:25 EDT 2004
  
  All of you guys have one good point or other. We definitely need an IR in every field. That is why even Father Jegath mentioned that IR is a role model to the younger generation. We have tough time learning new technologies in our own chosen field, inspite of access to the internet. IR learnt Western Classical Music with very little help. So all of us need to do well in our own professions. This is not an advise to others, but also a reminder to my own self.
  Gyan, does have a point, about our 'culture'. We have a different 'paradigm' than the West. But since we are far behind in terms of resources/wealth which are needed to lead a comfortable life (think about all the poor people in India) we may have to adopt some western attitudes/approaches and compete globally. It is now a matter of striking a balance between the material pursuits (as in corporate/financial success) with the spiritual/philosophical strengths of the indian culture (as in controlling our senses, being selfless etc ).
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.227) on: Fri Sep 10 20:52:48 EDT 2004
  
  k, well said....
  
  i was speaking to Music_lover' serious questions about India' backwardness in certain ways or pursuits of life, which are activities more related to glories of the testoterone and motivation provided by pheromones driven women.
  
  The reason is Indians as many have observerd lack the killer instinct, it is in us to be not competitive ( my own parents of very different cosmo backgrounds are a good example and I find that losing some competitive spirit does not mean we are losers, we have gained an insight into another realm, a certain spiritual wisdom.) Yet, this spritiual attitude does not mean we are weak or have fear, in fact, on the contrary it gives total courage to face fear or loss, in fact we don't have to take steroids to show a winner' face - it is a huge topic.
  
  However, coming to Music_Lover' valid issues about for eg.. why we can't have even one Olympic winner - it is all related to that killer instinct. If a certain society has that instinct, they can become conquerors of physical limitations, this does not happen by meditation, but a large build up of testoterone thru carnivorous (meat-eating) attitude - it is simple as that or even last minute steroid intakes. Many societies "adopted" that a resourcefulness for survival.
  
  That is how the talk about survival of the fittest came about (this universe is infinitely boutiful, there is no need for survival of the fittest, but survival of the biggest ego is what drives things) which developed into killer instinct and consequently a winner' approach to things.
  
  It is situational development of instincts based on environmental inequities, otherwise all humans beings basically are the same, some made it ahead with the killer instinct over centuries and that is how except India, almost all nations are winners at the Olympics..... it is just in their system..... Of course, "drugs" also has played a huge huge huge role fpr certain nations to keep their winning status over several decades!!!!! A huge topic.......!!!!! ( I mean to say that Indians at the Olympics would be actually winners if all competents would not secretly stuff their athlestes with steroids.)
  
  Ultimately, a balanced approach is important for preservation and growth of societies, less fear of losing and more love of the Supreme is what is plenty among Indians, and I think that is the way to continue. Otherwise, to win at the Olympics you have to believe in winning at all costs, meaning take steroids n have a sudden heart attack before you reach 50 and die a mysterous death ( haven't we heard many news of famous athletes dying early death in the last few years?!!!!)
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.114.188) on: Fri Sep 10 22:18:39 EDT 2004
  
  sorry, i went away from the topic and also exaggerated, but the issue is, AR Rahman himself in praising IR has said that he (ARR) thought that only if you took drugs you could make good music, and IR has proved total dedication and spiritual approach is the key....., this analogy i extrapolated to Olympics, so I am kind of guessing that the dynamics in a situation where there is intense competitiveness or pressure, many choices are taken by the compteitiors to win at any cost - cheating, lying are essential to to avoid defeat and to not succumb to any pressure of loss - that is the dynamics in any competitive environment, be it politicis, corporate ladder, or the apprentice!!!
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 203.200.58.136) on: Sat Sep 11 00:21:39 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan -
  
  "it is all related to that killer instinct. If a certain society has that instinct, they can become conquerors of physical limitations, this does not happen by meditation, but a large build up of testoterone thru carnivorous (meat-eating) attitude - it is simple as that or even last minute steroid intakes. Many societies "adopted" that a resourcefulness for survival." -
  
  pardon me for saying so, but this is sophisticated crap/rubbish - if our ultimate objective is the so-called 'spiritual' approach, and the quest for medals in competitive events is driven by sheer 'testesterone' driven 'killer instinct' which is against our 'cultural' ethos, then WHY THE BLOODY HELL EVEN PARTICIPATE in those events!!
  
  dear me, you astound me with a typical 'sour grapes' attidude - I take part in a competition and fail to even qualify and give an excuse that it was only because I was a vegetarian, a spiritually oriented chap, and hence, couldn't qualify
  
  look at the pathetic fate/state of competitive sports in India - even one Bahadur Prasad, one Aparna Popat, were forced to train themselves abroad to hone their skills - even a traditional event closely related to our ancient times like archery, we are nowhere -
  
  it is allright to pride ourselves with our historical past, but, it is sheer cowardice and hypocricy to justify our weaknesses by hiding behind the cloak of 'spiritual' superiority - this is what certain jokers like one Mr.Rajinikanth have been propagating for some time
  
  IR's story is an example of extreme hardship under adversity, sacrifice, perseverence, rigorous discipline, single minded devotion and dedication - with these qualities, IR transcended himself and elevated his own abilities and skills to such heights as never attained by anyone else -
  
  IR did not accomplish what he did by merely sitting in Thiruvannamalai, or, in Kanchipuram or Azhagar Koyil, and meditating - let us keep that in mind
  
  in fact, I dare say that it was his unrelenting commitment, which was recognised by your 'spiritual' entities and was showered with more musical powers - it is like Peter Parker - a la -SPIDERMAN getting powers for doing responsible things and not go around wasting his powers!
  
  

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