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Has ARR started the downfall of TFM?

Topic started by OfCourseNot (@ 172.149.139.210) on Sat Jan 26 03:41:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Since ARR has joined TFM,we have seen a slow decrease in the quality if TFM. ARR introduced digital music which merely required good practical skills in programmimg and sound engineering. Now we see new MD's sprouting up all over the place and these people have very limited musical talent.
Just recently I read that for the movie "Hey Nee Romba Azhaga irruke" 5 new MD's have been signed. I feel that the talent in TFM is just becoming more and more diluted due to ARR's influence. What do you think about this?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Jan 30 18:11:31 EST 2002
  
  Sam people should be stupid to think ARR is not creative.Are all the people listening/buying his CDs listening to noise ? Nope. ARR is a good musician. But the loops thingy has gone too far. Listen to kadal pookkaL by Deva, six songs have six different 'chalangai' or whatever sound played through out. This is Deva's understanding of ARR's music. Contrast this with the loops used in Muthu (oruvan oruvan)..ARR adds layers of percussion/melodies ..gives nice variations of beats ..etc ARR has close miced percussion but not loud. Others do it like the way they were doing (more ambient) but just increase the levels too high. Only MDs who understand and record like ARR (or like any POP recording) are YSR, later HJ (a ARR clone), Shankar trio and Ismail somebody up in Bombay.
  
  
  
• From: arun_uk (@ 64.12.104.28) on: Wed Jan 30 19:04:03 EST 2002
  
  
  Downfall???
  
  Have the humility guys. What ARR has done for TFM is phenomenal. I am a HCIRF & will not agree that ARR is a better 'musician' than IR.....BUT I will never refute the fact that ARR is unique & great in what he has contributed to TFM.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Jan 30 23:25:30 EST 2002
  
  Arun..you are right ARR's contribution to TFM and IFM should be recognised.
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Thu Jan 31 02:47:06 EST 2002
  
  oops, sorry WhyNot ... i didn't know you were 'she' ....
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Jan 31 03:09:18 EST 2002
  
  Just remembered a chain of posts recently in a ARR Vs IR tussle...
  
  One post said "After IR, Tamilians finally started listening to Tamil film music away from the barrage of Hindi film songs"
  
  The response to this one was "After ARR, the whole world started listening to Tamil film music".
  
  I think that pretty much says it all. Also there's hardly any downfall. The only downfall I see is in OfCourseNot's attitude. Recent films of IR (Kasi, Azhagi), Vidyasagar (PUV, Dhill, ATV), Yuvan (Nandha, MTV), ARR (PP, KM), HJ (Majnu, 12B) have given us pretty decent music to hum about. I really dont see any downfall. Even Deva comes up with great numbers given a set of good producer/ director.
  
  
• From: Its Me (@ 192.11.188.113) on: Thu Jan 31 03:23:23 EST 2002
  
  As usual ARR is getting accused here for no fault of his.
  
  In earlier days, when the film makers see a new trend being set in music, they will try to incorporate that in their productions by signing up that MD. So a monopoly kinda thing existed in the music scene. But in ARR's case he made it clear to the producer's & Director's that he will not do films for the sake of doing them. He wanted perfection & a sense of accomplishment to be present in each of his works. ( which obviously takes lotsa time to achieve ). It was his personal opinion & choice.
  This made the film-makers look for alternative options who will follow the same trend. This is what gave people like Vidyasagar, SA Rajkumar, Sirpy etc, a second lease of life. ( These MDs had earlier made their debut in the late 80s and were written off... reason being that they tried to follow the trend that was prevailing at that time...and they failed because nobody wanted to go for a duplicate when original itself was available... ). Among this crop, sirpy was shown the door & rightly so... SAR manages to survive with the "only one tune" he had ever composed in his life... And Vidyasagar is now having a mix of styles in his songs and gives some hits too coz he is more talented that the rest of the crop...
  But the situation now remains the same... The film-makers are still not satisfied and their quest continues... That is why you see so many new MDs making their debut, in ARR style... But till now nobody is able to recreate that magic...( The closest to the original being HJ ... KR & YSR too started off in the same style, failed miserably in that, but they still are popular for other reasons... )
  The fault now lies with the people... They made hits out of some ordinary songs given by less talented MDs, which to my mind, is the root cause for the bee-lining of MDs in TFM, who absolutely have no knowledge about music...
  
  And the only fault i see on ARR's part is that he was born in TN... Never in any part of the world would you see people bashing MDs of ARR's Calibre... PERIOD...
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 194.170.1.132) on: Thu Jan 31 08:03:57 EST 2002
  
  There is a section which does not like ARR because they can 'SPOT' ARR. ie.. the moment you hear an ARR song, you know it is his. while I think this is true, I am not sure whether this is good or bad. He may be leaving a 'stamp' deliberately. He is more than capable of producing something that he hasn't done before.
  
  This aspect is never seen as a negative in Western music. You cannot mistake a dire straits or a deep purple. If the defence for that is that is because of the voice of their regular singer, that is also not valid. Because, one can tell from a Mozart or a Bach or a Beethoven & not sure if there are any current western music instrumental only groups.
  
  What do u guys & girls think ? Do u agree that ARR is instantly recognisable ? If yes, is he doing it consciously ? Is that good or bad ?
  
  As for the theme of the topic, 'DOWNFALL', that is rubbish. That man is a genius. Better than IR or XYZ is not a big topic either. There is enough place for the two of them & more. We should be lucky to have those two in the Tamil cinema field.
  
  
• From: ARR_adimai (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Thu Jan 31 08:46:51 EST 2002
  
  Srini,
  I think its his style.. his identity.. uniqueness.. Thatz what ppl in this world crave for .. The most sought after trait ... And boy, ARR has got that ...
  
  Similar to how Sachin plays ... You can instantly recognise that its a sachin shot..
  
  The first time i heard "Mettu podu" from Duet and "Udalum Neeye" from pavitra i did know from which film it was or who the MD was.. But is had feeling that it was ARR and it turned out true... Hez got that identity...
  
  
• From: ARR_adimai (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Thu Jan 31 08:49:35 EST 2002
  
  sorry typo...
  Read the above post as "i did not know from which film it was..."
  "But i had a feeling that ..."
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 194.170.168.236) on: Thu Jan 31 09:03:53 EST 2002
  
  To the self proclaimed ARR_adimai,
  
  I agree with u the identity.
  
  Do u think IR or MSV had a stamp in their songs? I don't think so. They were legends too. ( i am not trying to start IR v/s ARR here).
  
  Can't fully remember the 'Uyirum Niye' song? From what I can remember , it didn't have too many instruments. I think that is where ARR is recognised instantly. Does it get too close to recycling ?
  
  
  Can u recognise a IR song instantly as we do a ARR song ?
  
  
• From: arr naamam vaazhga (@ 203.199.231.155) on: Thu Jan 31 09:08:23 EST 2002
  
  i too had teh same feeling for "senthamizh naatu thamizhachiye" and "muthu paapa".
  after such a looooong time, just in NOV '01 did I find out IT WAS ARR..
  yippee, i am a true ARR fan!
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 194.170.168.236) on: Thu Jan 31 09:14:56 EST 2002
  
  arr namam !!
  
  you couldn't recognise ARR song for months & u claim to be an ARR fan ?
  
  If u did, he does have a stamp.
  
  Choose..
  
  No offence, mate .just joking.
  
  are these songs classified as hits ?
  
  
• From: ARR_adimai (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Thu Jan 31 09:21:30 EST 2002
  
  Srini,
  I think even MSV & IR have a stamp... But i usually confuse between MSV & KVM ... I even confused IR with MSV in films like "simla Special", "Varumayin Niram Sigappu" etc...
  Having an unique identity doesnt amount to recycling ... People have their styles... Vairamuthu has a style in writing songs and RK Narayan has a style in writing stories... Madhan (Anandha Vikatan) has a style of answering questions...Do you mean they recycle ???
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Thu Jan 31 11:25:12 EST 2002
  
  "Can u recognise a IR song instantly as we do a ARR song ?"
  NOP ! because IR's music is widely copied by MDs like SAR or Deva !! He is an example for those MDs !!
  and you guys you'r talking about recognision ....
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.202.17) on: Thu Jan 31 11:45:50 EST 2002
  
  Kiru,Sam
  Please continue ur discussion
  Kiru i find your postings very meaningful.
  Every Md has access all the sound fonts,modules and loops but you still need creativity to come up with something interesting ,captive as ARR does,I think there lies his superiority in applying his creativeness. And Arrs penchant for technology is already known.
  He has done lot of new stuff in PPP but I dont think many of listeners cant understand those subtle complexties in the rthym arrangement he has done for those songs.
  I saw one guys beautifully explaining the album to fellow readers forgot his name balaji or someone?
  Kala pramanams changing from chasuthram to thisram and vice versa and brining everything back to samam.
  once again not bring the back the same war again,Ir has done those many times but how many of listeners notice those.
  IR done a tremendrous job on a movie called Kovil Pura how many us remember those songs ,it goes waste same as PPP.
  Those who appreicate music for music and know little bit can appreciate these beautiful nuances
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.49.157) on: Thu Jan 31 13:26:56 EST 2002
  
  when I heard pandiyanin rajiyathil frompandiyan and ey vanjikkodi from a karthik starrer(it also had nenjukullem innarunnu..)i knew they were not by IR-they were composed by KR.that flow was missing...
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Jan 31 16:46:21 EST 2002
  
  Some of the stuff I like i PP;
  
  1. Adhisayam Thirumanam : I like to rave about this song, and here i go again.This song has modulation, atonality, variety of meters(rhythm timings) and even syncopation.
  Modulation is the shift from one key to another key in a piece of music. Atonality is not having a fixed key in the piece, it keeps varying between two or more keys. In this song we have the main pallavi in the key of A and the pallavai in the key of D. I also think that the part "Ithuthaan ithuthaa" is in the key of E, but I am not sure. Cud someone please check on that?
  Coming to variety of meters, al of us know that the song has a 5 cycle, 6 cylce and a 7 cycle timing going in a order (5-6-7-6-5 and so on).
  Coming to syncopation, when we play a beat pattern on a machine or a drum, we expect the beats to fall at regular places. For example if we consider a 4/4 rhythm, we expect stronger beats on the count of 1 and 3, 2 and 4 have weaker beats. But when the stonger beats or the accents fall in places where we least expect them, that is called syncopation. U cud have a stronger beat on the count of 2 instead of on the coount of 1. This is called syncopation. This is very much seen in Jazz music. Now in this song, if u observe when the snare drum is being hit especially when the 6/8 cycle is going on when the male singers sing "Nalliravu kaithi ini" for the first time , u can see what I am talkin about.
  Another thing is, I feel that this song is a good fusion of Rock and Carnatic. The drumming, bass guitar and harmony part are very much like the late 80's rock songs. Just imagine playing the drum,u can understand whay I am trying to say. Even the singing of the lines "Thirumanam oru dhaaya kattam,
  Dheivar aadum maaya kattam" remind me of a rock band singing some lines to a crowd in the arena. Coming to what I see as the carnatic (or Indian)aspects, the tune (esp the pallavi) the guitar licks sound very much carnatic. And the use of nadaswaram and mridangam bring a very souh Indian atmosphere to the song.
  If people cant like this song, then the fault is with them, not ARR.
  
  2. Some other things are, varying between minor and major scales in the title song. Aditya pointed this out some time back and even started a thread on that. And in the Azhage Sugama, we have a western sounding Piano having a dialouge with an Indian sounding violin.
  Nadir thinna is a good dasnce number in 6/8 timing (I dont think there are many dance songs in other timings than 4/4, forget about waltz, waltz is essentially for dance).It has good spanish stlye strumming on the guitar, and if u observer the guitarist in the first interlude, he starts it with some harmonics (now how many songs of us have harmonics on a guitar? true this song almost negligible number of harmonics, but at least there are some), and when he comes to the main part of the interlude, he changes the sound of his guitar evry now and then, Some notes sound muted, some are ringing, and he ends the solo with a trumpet like sound. Of course he might have used a pedal, but using a pedal is no easy thing.
  
  If some one else cud point out things I missed, I wud greatly appreciate it. We cud discuss even other albums, for example Kovil Pura as UV mentioned, or Niram pirithu from Time by IR, thats another great song I love.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Jan 31 16:49:25 EST 2002
  
  And people discuss that the guy who composed Adhisayam thirumanam started the downfall of Tamil Music, saying that he just has some "MERE" programmimg skills. Good for them.
  
  

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