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Thulluvatho ilamai by YSR

Topic started by madhav (@ 213.122.174.88) on Thu Jan 18 16:45:41 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is the next release after Dheena. Any ideas about it?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.76.3.20) on: Tue Mar 27 11:49:58 EST 2001
  
  CF,
  Never, can anybody acheive 100:0. Not at all.
  What ???, Are you trying to justify yourself about ARR's 20:80 ? :-))
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Tue Mar 27 12:15:37 EST 2001
  
  I am sure thyagayyar or Deekshidhar didn't invent all raagas. So, point number 1- they used a pre-existed tunes as raagas to compose a song.
  2. They should have really had a great influence of the litrature and stories what they read or heard during their time to come up with such great composition. Again, we don't know who was inspiration for both in their bhakti and kriti.
  Not knowing doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
  
  Why, Kamban got inspired by valmiki.
  Manonmaniam got inspired by AS YOU LIKE IT (correct me if I am wrong). But both are great work.
  
  UVII: You got is wrong as always. I was trying to prove 80:20.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.76.3.20) on: Tue Mar 27 12:33:57 EST 2001
  
  CF,
  UVII: You got is wrong as always.
  Interesting....you are really Good in coming to a conclusion.
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Wed Mar 28 00:29:51 EST 2001
  
  UVII dont be this much BOLD
  
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Wed Mar 28 00:31:51 EST 2001
  
  r u still so bold :-)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Wed Mar 28 00:32:41 EST 2001
  
  thank god you r not...
  now CF, UVII continue your 80-20 stuff please :-)
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.225.121.125) on: Wed Mar 28 01:49:41 EST 2001
  
  Kupps,
  :-)) Intha 80:20 stuff is patented by CF :-))
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 203.199.87.3) on: Wed Mar 28 02:52:29 EST 2001
  
  Common Friend,
  

  "I am sure thyagayyar or Deekshidhar didn't invent all raagas. So, point number 1- they used a pre-existed tunes as raagas to compose a song.
  "

  
  

  Ragas are NOT tunes buddy. To crudely define, they are 'scales' that are formed by a combination of 12 notes. And nobody owns them.
  
  Knowing 'numbers' doesn't make me a Mathematician. Before making such sweeping statements, make sure that you know WHAT you are writing about. If you want to understand Classical music, there are umpteen primers available on the Net. Kindly get your facts right. Thanks.

  
  
• From: sri (@ 213.1.153.117) on: Wed Mar 28 05:55:45 EST 2001
  
  I am really hooked on Kanmunne : un thahappan thimiraiyum ethukondu... un thaaiyin thittaiyum serthukondu... un annan adiyaivaangikonden nee enathu arugil nindrale... cute...!
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Mar 28 11:44:22 EST 2001
  
  Neels:
  Let me explain what Pushpavanm Kuppusamy said in his inetrview in Jaya TV (part 2) with Abdul Hameed. He said that Carnatic music should have come into being only after 17th century. Even before that there could have been only 5 to 10 established ragas and after 17th century rest of the raagas emerged from these raags and some other stuffs.
  The some other stuff are nothing but isai thamil paattu or crudely called naattu pattu. According to him naattu paattu should have originated in Tamil even before sangam litrature. So, this naattu pattu had all mettu (Tunes) of all emotions.
  According to him, these mettus where then latter catogaried into raagas after 17th century. What he ment was, carnatic music was child of naattu paattu and all raagas in carnatic music can be found in naattu paattu (np) and also several np tunes cannot be found in CM.
  
  
  So, point number 1- they used a pre-existed tunes as raagas to compose a song.
  
  My mention about tune here is based on what PK said and what I have understood. He did his doctorate especially on this kind of subject and he has a very good knowledge of CM.
  
  By the way, he also said that some np should be sung only on it original tune and no body should change it as it has got some devine meaning in it. He said that, some MD or MDs tried their brilliance and changed the raaga or tunes of some np and put it in films. He didn't mention the MD(s) name(s). But, my aunt sitting besides me identified what he was actually reffering to. I don't want to mention it here as I don't think that people here are that cool to listen to that piece of news.
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Mar 28 13:18:11 EST 2001
  
  Most of what PK says is true. These are common knowledgeable among people who are into tamil literature. rAgams were called paN (pronounced as pun) in tamil literature. There are poetic structures similar to Kritis in tamil which predate the musical Trinity. But PK is BSing about things being divine. You do not want to sing things in a different rAgam only because people have already classified rAgams for their characteristics. Just for being different you should not do this. You have to be responsible about this.
  Common Friend, Anyways, before you tantalize us about your impending disclosure, would you kindly enlighten lesser mortals like me on the creative process of music composition where by you can have 20% inspiration or borrowing ?? What can be borrowed, what cannot, how it can be used etc ??
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 166.90.248.158) on: Wed Mar 28 14:53:24 EST 2001
  
  CF, Kiru,
  I don't see any relevence in discussing this in this thread. Pl. can you guys go ahead, and discuss it in any of the permanent threads?...It is really interesting.
  
  CF, I think you can post news bits like this in permanent thread..
  
  
• From: IsaiPriyan (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Wed Mar 28 22:08:37 EST 2001
  
  I heard that YSR is the MD for Kamal's "Pammal Sammantham". Any news on this ? Can someone confirm ?
  
  
• From: IsaiPriyan (@ 164.164.86.66) on: Wed Mar 28 22:09:00 EST 2001
  
  I heard that YSR is the MD for Kamal's "Pammal Sammantham". Any news on this ? Can someone confirm ?
  
  
• From: KRK (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Thu Mar 29 00:13:27 EST 2001
  
  CF,
  < some devine meaning in it. He said that, some MD or MDs tried their brilliance and changed the raaga or tunes of
  some np and put it in films. He didn't mention the MD(s) name(s). But, my aunt sitting besides me identified what he
  was actually reffering to. I don't want to mention it here as I don't think that people here are that cool to listen to that
  piece of news. >>
  
  I guess it's ARR for the movie Sangaman.
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Thu Mar 29 04:23:07 EST 2001
  
  i think it refers to Raja's work on mari mari ninnE
  
  
• From: Analog (@ 12.105.88.34) on: Thu Mar 29 10:10:42 EST 2001
  
  kiru:
  
  Have you got 'Thulluvatho Ilamai' cd? There is a recording flaw in 'vayathu vA vA' song. It annoys me so much. Has anyone else noticed it?
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 166.90.248.158) on: Thu Mar 29 11:34:10 EST 2001
  
  enna recording flaw vaa? can you explain more, I have the C D...but did not seriously hear this album...this cd is sleeping in my shelf :-))
  
  
• From: Analog (@ 12.105.88.34) on: Thu Mar 29 12:26:00 EST 2001
  
  In vayathu vA vA, there is some kind of noise like the one you get when you don't connect earth properly. It comes only when the singers sing, interludes and other parts are fine.
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Thu Mar 29 12:40:08 EST 2001
  
  KRK & :-):
  
  Yes, it was IR and the movie is Mullum Mararum. There is asong called "Raaman andalum ravana andalum". That song originally is a ooty koothu (koothar.. don't know exaclty) song collection and Padma subramaniam (yes .. the great dancer) had done research on that and had had the entire collections with her. IR seems to have used some from her collection but this one IR seems to have changed the tune a bit which sparked off a controversy. Now, I don't know from what source she got the news. I didn't pester her with query last time, but this week end I shall try to get some more stuffs from her.
  If anybody from this forum knew something about this please enlighten us.
  
  
• From: arai drouser senthil (@ 207.188.29.249) on: Thu Mar 29 13:48:21 EST 2001
  
  i! vanthematharam annachi ingaeyum vanthitaaru !!! :)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Thu Mar 29 15:13:48 EST 2001
  
  CF: it is like chidhambara ragasiyam. everyone (almost :-) ) knows about this controversy with rAman ANdAlum; the tune in contention is the chorus that goes like ElElO lElO ... . padma subrahmaNiam claimed that it was her tune whereas ir said it was a modification of a np tune! this is what i remember from memory of yonderdays :-)
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.179) on: Fri Mar 30 10:14:43 EST 2001
  
  hihi:-) :
  That news was new to me. Thanx for acknowledging that there was a controversy.
  
  
• From: Bahma (@ 213.123.27.175) on: Sat Mar 31 15:18:47 EST 2001
  
  There was an article in the latest edition of Take 2 magazine that Yuvans marriage is coming up and also there is a picture of the girl he is marrying.
  
  
• From: Analog (@ 12.105.88.34) on: Sun Apr 1 17:23:16 EDT 2001
  
  Is 'Take 2' available on-line?
  
  
• From: A (@ 213.11.117.254) on: Wed Apr 4 06:53:34 EDT 2001
  
  Take 2 Magazine is done by the Gangai Amaran Brothers(Venkat and Premji), in conjunction with SPB Charan, Yugendran and Srikanth Deva. It is catered towards NRI's who don't read Tamil so well, but have to keep up with TF by reading things like Stardust and Cineblitz, which don't have much TF info.
  
  http://www.indiaserver.com/thehindu/2000/08/23/stories/0423401d.htm
  
  In terms of Thulluvadho Ilamai - It is overall a very good album, but Yuvan must stop copying so much - he had lifted song 7 mainly from Angel in Colonial Cousins 1. All the drum loops have been utilised in TFM already and most songs give a 'saayal' of something else, mostly by AR Rehman. It waould help our years tremendously if he stopped using members of his family to sing, including himself. Also, he should be checking out voices for best use, as opposed to blindly using anyone that ARR or Harris Jeyaraj uses.
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.20) on: Wed Apr 4 07:15:56 EDT 2001
  
  I suppose lot of us got to know about the Padma Subramaniam issue from Srirangam Lakshminarayana's write-up's titled 'Classical Ilayaraja'. I'm posting an excerpt from the write-ups on this issue...
  
  --Karthik
  
  
  "Aandholika is a pleasant janyam of Harikaambodi ragam. Its arohanam and avarohanam are Sa Ri2 Ma1 Pa Ni2 Sa; Sa Ni2 Da2 Ma1 Ri2 Sa. Thyagaraja swamy has got a terrific krithi in this ragam, which is mostly sung as a thukkada in Katcheris. The krithi is "raga sudha rasa". I have heard a story long ago. That Padma Subramaniam had a song tuned for her dance performance in this Ragam. At that time Ilaiyaraaja was in someway conected with Padma's troup to earn his daily bread (probably as a "mike" boy or something!). Then, later he became picked up by "Ms. Luck" after he made his debut in Panchu Arunachalam's film "Annakili". He had lot of chances flowing in his way then. Mullum malarum is a terrific movie. It must be within first 50 films of Ilaiyaraaja. He gave a great musical support to the director, Mahendran, tuning few totally unheard kinds of lilting tunes then. But, he also got his name spoiled in that movie because of "copying" Padma's Aandolika ragam tune.
  
  The song is "raaman aandalum raavanan aandalum". That is a very crucial song in the movie. Rajni looses one of his arms in the climax of the song in an accident. The song is actually a tappanguthu. But, in the interlude of the song the chorus sings a bit which goes like "samiyai kumbitta namaku nalladhu thaan varumae". The tune is supposed to be in pure Aandholika (the same tune that Padma used in her Dance performance earlier). Reportedly she complained in some interview about how Ilaiyaraaja had "copied" her tune. We know that music directors like Ilaiyaraaja and Rahman have got very fertile mind and they have proved it by generation of wonderful tunes. The judgement that these eminant people copied other people's work cannot be passed so easily. It is in the innermost conscience of these personalities that the secret dwells if they are felon or not. Perhaps, it can never be known to the outside world unless they frankly admit like Anand Milind ("yes, we are fans of Ilaiyaraaja, we do use his tunes in our songs")!"
  
  
  

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