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Mumbai Moham - What do Tamils put up with the bad and mediocre singing of Mumbai artistes?

Topic started by Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Dec 1 22:44:28 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is my question....Udit Narayan, Hariharan, Sadhana Sargam, Kavitha Krishnamurti,Sonu Nigam - All sing in Tamil. But their Tamil is really very bad. Are Tamils deaf, tolerant, or have no PERUMAI in their own language? Is there really a shortage of good, tamil-speaking singers? Or is this really Tamil Inferiority Complex?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Sun Dec 9 18:33:48 EST 2001
  
  Please dont force me to listen to Jazz/WCM all the time :) ...(I mean I feel culturally out of place with other forms of music at times seriously) kiru: :-)) i have stopped listening to wcm now-a-days - it sounds more like mental masturbation than music :-(. some jazz pieces are good. for variety, i am listening to asian and african music. traditional vietnamese music is very much like (north) indian music. try them if you want a break from indian music :-))
  
  
• From: Indhu (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Dec 9 20:06:40 EST 2001
  
  Dear Suresh,
  
  Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful words. Admittedly, the Title Mumbai Moham is a touch limited and I am glad that you and others have pointed out how this seems to be single out one aspect of the current crop, when the field is way out of control. Yes, I did use the title somewhat provocatively as I believe that is where - with "imports" - this TREND started. The fact that it has now developed its own genetically modified versions of "native" tamil is rather alarming. I started this topic/thread in a moment of hot, white rage after listening to Sadhana's song from Rhythm for the nth time and still not getting more than a few words in the opening line. I chucked my cookies - in my manner of speaking - and this thread was the outcome.
  
  I am gratified by the response the thread (with all its impulsive limitations - as it was started on the spur) has generated. Obivously, it has touched a raw nerve. There are people out there, I am glad to be told, who feel that something needs to be done about this spiralling loss of "standard" tamil.
  
  Would I be too off the mark when I suggest that the recent "stylish" proclamations of the Gen Englipis in film music is syptomatic of the the levels of "acceptance" the Tamil public is ready for? Or does the "Tamil" public (and by this I am be geographically specific to TN first - and then all over the diaspora) even have a voice/say in any of this?
  
  I would be very grateful if someone could help me in locating articles/essay/letter2editors - which have addressed this issue - however broadly or narrowly. I would really like to know what the specificities of these complaints are.
  
  My second query - which got me into some trouble - was the suggestion that this 'trend" and the tolerance it enjoys is deeply emblematic of a more serious malaise - let's say, low esteem/regard for one's own language. In my lifetime (thus far) as a tamilian, I have noticed the instant regard/hype anything associated with Mumbai or Bollywood - receives when it is offered/thrust upon Tamils in TN. While my intention is not to disqualify genunine talent/interest, it irks me that this is usually done at the cost of shelving local, qualified talent. Why is this so?
  
  Again, I do believe, with all its limitations, this thread has been very encouraging for me. I have heard varied opinions, views, and analyses. I have also heard a consensual call for some sort of action. This can only be a good start to , what you rightly say, is a long and complex battle.
  
  Any suggestions you might have to formalise our disapproval/dissatisfaction with the "trend" would be greatly helpful to me and the others.
  
  I look forward to your next posting.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Mon Dec 10 00:28:15 EST 2001
  
  Indhu, thanks. Let me address some points you've raised
  
  "does the "Tamil" public (and by this I am be geographically specific to TN first - and then all over the diaspora) even have a voice/say in any of this?"
  
  Did anyone ever conduct a market survey to conclude that the thamizh preference was a formula incorporating - 3 fights, 5 songs (3 in exotic foreign locales), jobless hero+3 friends, intellectually-bankrupt skimpy-dressed heroine, vulgar dialogues? Does any recent song come close to "mun paniya" for the way it has been conceived, crafted, and executed? I'm disappointed that even in "Nandhaa", Surya's clothes and footwear are inappropriate to the setting of the story, and "kalli adi kalli" features some awful gyrations totally alien to the characters Laila and Surya perform with otherwise quiet dignity
  
  If you've not had your fill of the city-slicker types, you have mind-numbing "amman" movies that have some of the most awful graphic sequences you'll ever see, and the most retrograde, superstitious stories masquerading as "bhakthi" padams. Or the "ettu pattikku thalaivar" kind of "nattamai" films that perpetuate casteism and all that's evil with our society today
  
  Unless the mechanics of movie making change and more production houses led by rational, educated, intellectually-honest people - like 'nandhaa's aparajeeth films - emerge, it's difficult to imagine a way out of this morass
  
  Some of the biggest movie producers today are known smugglers, extortionists, so you can very well conclude the quality of their films
  
  " it irks me that this is usually done at the cost of shelving local, qualified talent. Why is this so? "
  
  The local qualified talent is no better, they're guilty of a more horrible crime of mutilating their mother tongue for self-preservation. I'm forced to rein in more harsher words for the Tippu's and Malgudi Subha's in order to be civil
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Mon Dec 10 00:30:20 EST 2001
  
  I've had the time to go through many of the well-argued points in this thread, both for and against precipitate action. I will add some more thoughts about a few issues that, IMO, are central to this debate
  
  1 CONTEXT DEFINITION
  When ARR used Suresh Peters for "chikku bukku raile", I've reason to believe that the novelty of the voice and the anglicised accent (that comes naturally to SP, not forced as in Tippu/Mathangi) is what made that song, apart from Prabhu Deva's gyrotechnics, such a hit with vast sections of the youth. But the anamoly was that this influenced the Shankar-ARR duo to think that such an 'item' number was what was called for to bring in the college-goers to the theatres, and sadly this has been perpetuated by them to the inglorious "Shakalaka Baby" - makes my stomach churn, but my daughters think it's a cool dance no : (
  Similarly, I feel that ARR's "Mustafa Mustafa" was cleverly engineered to hit the right chords in the MTV-influenced mass of youth.
  
  So we can probably draw a broad generalisation that says
  
  a) A song that is used for novelty sake (chikku bukku) or to define the lifestyle context (mustafa mustafa) of the character/s can be justified even while it offends the purist's senses. I think the words in these 2 songs were clearly identifiable though the accent sucked. ARR's use of Udit for an ageing Rajini cavorting in the hinterlands of Kerala for the disastrous"kulu valleyle" is a monumental blunder that does nobody any credit (just juxtapose this with SPB's rendering of "oruvan oruvan mudhalali" in the same film). To add insult to injury, ARR has no remorse for this action and in fact thinks that this is just what the audience wants. Similarly, going by HJ's several songs, it wouldn't surprise anybody if they were told that the character was "croatian" or even a "martian"!
  
  b) A song that has no basis either in the context/screenplay or characterisation to warrant the import/use of bad pronouncers needs to be downright castigated. The degree of condemnation should be greater if the MD/ Director/ Lyricist are supposed "thamizh kaavalar"s. My recent examples for this - IR & Thangar Bachan for having Sadhana warble "paattu cholli" for what is a very well-defined rustic thamizh character in a rural setting; Vairamuthu for his astonishing duplicity in encouraging the "thamizhkkolai" brigade, too many instances very well known
  
  2 HERO DOMINATION
  It's a reflection of the overall trend that the top young heroes of today - Ajit, Vijay, Madhavan - are influencing the use of Udit, Sukhvinder, etc. because of a misplaced self-image of a 'cool western dude'.
  This has assumed such alarming proportions that even local lads like "Tippu" are forced to manufacture an accent to swim with the tide. I think SPB Charan and Yugendran are honorouble exceptions to this market-madness, hats off to them! Such is the case that you can even have Harry Belafonte or Britney Spears sing and they'll sound no different from the Tippu, Malgudi Subha, Devan, Mathangi brigade! Let's wait till our producers can afford to get them across the seas!
  
  
  
  
• From: sundar (@ 203.197.144.217) on: Mon Dec 10 02:16:16 EST 2001
  
  the wholething IMHO, bears out of tamilian's inferiority complex and a blind appreciation what ever is done by Bollywood.
  
  after the advent of ARR and his followers like HJ we are seeing less and less of TAMIZH and more and more of irritating mixed lyrics in english/hindi and meaningless words and very little TAMIZH.
  even that is getting spoiled by these over rated singers who have mostly forgotten sing thru' their mouth.
  
  ONLY GOD CAN SAVE TAMIZH LYRICS & MUSIC.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.161.4) on: Mon Dec 10 04:05:53 EST 2001
  
  suresh;
  
  You have brought out some meaningful thoughts. I truly agree with you that this is a complex, delicate issue just than an isolated, straight-forward one. You seem to have quoted many songs like 'Chikku Buttu" and "Kuluvalille" examples of language degeneracy. Don't you agree that this go "hand-in-hand" with public likings. When those songs hit the chart, do you think not even a single, responsible person attempted to raise their voice against them? Lyrics have been bad for years. Irrespective of my deep attachment to IR's music, I have to go ahead and agree with the fact that this spoiling slowly started only after post-Kannadhasan's period. Look at the probable reasons for this;
  
  1. After Kannadhasan, I would boldly say that not much good, meaningful lyrics were renderred to tfm probably due to lack of good poets.
  
  2. Idea of lack of themes. How often and differently you can express feelings like love,anger etc..
  
  3. Multifold increase in the number of movies released/year. Say about 200 movies released per year with each movie has an average of 4 songs which totals to 800 songs a year. Imagine that there are 10 different themes namely love,anger,amma senti, courage, friendship...etc, that have to be recycled with similar words (but not identical) atleast 80 times a year. Assuming this trend had lasted from 1970-2000, 30*80 = 2400 times they were in a position to recycle the same theme. Of course, there were many situtaions where IR's music factor totally dominated the lyric aspect.
  
  4) People too were totally feeling bored about this/though keep complaining on one hand, and rather easily accepted a change on the other hand. Now that too has started savouring slowly.
  
  Some totally illogical (probably enjoyable by many) comparisons and examples for this new trend;
  (ARR fans don't get offended. I am now faulting only the lyrics)
  
  1. telephone mani pol sirippu..
  2. vaanavil vaazhkail vaalibam oru fancy
  3. kuchi kuchi rakkamma
  4. Ottagatha Kaiitkko Gettiyaaga Ottikko (enna arthamada saamee)
  5. maya machchindra machcham paarka vandhaara.
  ........ innumerable till now.
  
  Why did people accept this change? Why did they orchestrated the trend buying this music (lyrics)?If we did not want this, what else we would have opted for?
  Do we thirst to go back to 1970s era? How do we write the 24000 songs under the same theme category during a span of 30 years..
  
  Somebody can enlighten me; Let's take the theme "love" and try to express it with 100 differnent wordings, not one overlapping the other.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Mon Dec 10 04:42:33 EST 2001
  
  sundar, I've written this before and repeat the post again for your benefit.
  
  ...when u talk about lyrics in Tamil songs containing English/Tinglish words, please note that this trend has existed in Tfm long before ARR.
  
  I can give you examples:
  1) "B.O.Y boy, boyinaa paiyan, G.I.R.L. girl, girluna ponnu", this funny and really old tamil song.
  2) Oh-ho Enthan Baby, Oh-ho Enthan Darling.
  3) Hello My Dear Wrong Number...
  4) Love Birds, Love Birds..
  5) Viswanathan (come on) Velai Vendum..
  All the above from really old songs.
  
  And then more like
  6) I want to tell you something, wait a minute. It's a love story, it's a true story (from Anand)
  7) Disco Queen (from Isai Paadum Thendral)
  8) A.B.C Nee vaasi ellam en kai rasi, So Easy..(from Oru Kaithiyin Diary)
  9) Hey I Love You... (from Unnai Naan Sandhitthen)
  10) Ah ha O Butterfly, Butterfly...
  
  And many more.
  
  
  

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