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P Susheela or Vani Jairam - who is the better singer?

Topic started by philosopher (@ 203.199.130.138) on Sat Dec 15 08:15:56 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Fri Dec 21 03:05:21 EST 2001
  
  Mr.Observer, a real music lover need not know swaram and swarabetham to enjoy the music (even swarabetham may be interesting for him/her). If he/she likes any music, that is more than sufficient. If the high level musical sangathis can't reach common music listener, that is not his fault.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Dec 21 03:12:09 EST 2001
  
  Naaz:
  
  Digression ---- VJ got NA award for Manasa SanchararE and not brocheva (which has the excellent "seethapathe" part ).
  
  (Please note I do not agree with Observer's statement that VJ slipped off in Brocheva... while singing seethapathe.. else we shall again have a fight :-))
  
  
  
  VJs semiclassical singing is fantastic, it is her forte. This is not to say that Asha,Lata,PS are any less at that, or that Vj is not good at other songs.
  
  
  Observer:
  I cannot understand why you think I have not heard Asha's "yeh hai reshmi" (or Latas "woh ek nigaah ..." from half Ticket for that matter). However VJs "Naane naana" is just excellent and "thanimayil" is even better. And listen to Happiest Moment, I request you. U will change your opinion on VJ. And if someone says "ezhu swarngalukkul" or "kelviyin nayakane" are not examples of superlative semiclassical renditions, then its tone-deafness or prejudice. However Naaz, lets give this persona long rope. If u can explain why VJs singing in Apoorva raagangal,shankarabharanam, swathikirananam,balanagamma........ is not upto the mark, we'll concede your opinion.
  
  Also, about VJ being wiped off by SPB - this statement is gossamer. First of all we cannot say a male voice wiped off a female one. Thats saying Boris Becker is better at tennis than Steffi Graf. I feel honours are equally divided between VJ adn SPB in all the Shankarabharanam songs. Also, duets are not meant for one singer to outdo another, they are supposed to be the pleasant unison of two or more sonorous voices.
  
  Many thanks
  AVR
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Dec 21 03:22:12 EST 2001
  
  Naaz:
  
  However I would advise you about one thing. Brocheva is fabulously sung by VJ, forget what "observer" says. But one thing - please do not keep qouting what so and so critic said or the name of so and so award. Imagine this scenario - the Shankara... movie flopped and VJ did not get any NA. Would that song by itslef have been of any less quality??? If u go through the songs of any great artist, you will find more often than not,that the songs that sank without a trace are far better than the ones which were superhits and which won awards.For instance, VJ got no award for "en kalyana.." - so what? Or Lata got no award for Pakeezah,sur sangam or Sanyasi. So???? And she got a NA for the drab,dull "roothhe roothhe piya". Awards are hardly the criterion, and a musically trained gentleman like you should avoid quoting someone else's opinions. Anil Biswas has gone on record to term Rafi a non-singer. And he knew the sa-re-ga of music. So what??????? That does not mean we believe him in this matter.
  
  Suppose MSV had one fine day said - VJ is only an average semiclassical singer - would u have believed him?? All of VJs shankara... songs are TOP CLASS, because they ARE TOP CLASS. No award can change the quality of their musical content. Vani Jairam's breath control in brocheva... is miraculous - esp. when she sings that sargam.
  
  Since I am finding a friend in you - Naaz - please do not misunderstand what I have said here.
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.205) on: Fri Dec 21 03:28:28 EST 2001
  
  avr, Please do not twist my statements around. My observation was that there have been people who have done a better if not equally commendable job at singing semi-classical numbers. To me, Lata beats 'em all in semi-classical songs, but if comparisons will have to be made with PS w.r.t to playback singing, PS comes out the winner. When I brought in the subject of the duets with SPB, I was referring to how SPB could emote and bring in subtleties to the tune (listen to 'sapthaswaram punnagayil kaNdEn') with proper improvisations whereas VJ....leave it, its getting monotonous. The difference in quality is quite palpable.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Dec 21 03:31:44 EST 2001
  
  Emotions are subjective. There is nothing less "emotive" in Vjs singing in those songs that you quote. Vjs improvisations in aanathi neeyara are great.
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.205) on: Fri Dec 21 03:46:53 EST 2001
  
  avr, if that is so, I am OK with it. Atleast you haven't had to validate your tastes considering MSV's remarks or the National award your idol has won, which is actually a sign of stupidity. But I think you need to revert to comparing PS with VJ. Atleast bring out the various facets of PS's playback singing in comparison with VJ's as you see them.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Fri Dec 21 04:01:30 EST 2001
  
  Observer:
  
  Between PS and VJ, PS has the sweeter voice - IMO. But I doubt if PS could have done that much justice to "aanathi neeyara" or "brocheva" or displayed the range of VJ in that english song I have quoted. Please correct me if I am wrong.
  
  Yes, VJ is one of my idols. the others are LM and PS.
  
  You see VJ sounds so effortless in very high pitches. I am not saying Lata/PS did not (there are many examples for that), but VJ sounds moe at ease and has scaled such heights more frequently.
  
  
  
• From: Cynic (@ 202.9.149.15) on: Fri Dec 21 06:50:01 EST 2001
  
  Do not waste time comparing the oldies.Allow them to gracefully retire retaining the memory of the golden image of their good old days.One should stop singing before the voice is deteriorated.
  "Who was better" is a better title for the topic or topics comparing the oldies.
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.112) on: Fri Dec 21 16:22:15 EST 2001
  
  Joke of all time: "PS has been nowhere near SPB even in 'Ayiram nilavE vA'. She sounded like the kid learning classical music next door."
  
  BTW, I just heard "Manamohana bade.." by Lata.
  
  Observer! I think it's time that you changed your name. The "thaans" (or whatever you call it) in that song are not that impressive - by any composition or melody standards. It's the same thing sung in different speeds. And ofcourse, in the end there are a couple of variations of it. Based on your opinion, I was looking forward to a classical treat. SORRY! I hope there are better classical renditions by Lata which you can give pointers to.
  
  In 'sapthaswaram punnagaiyil kanden' I, infact liked the plain delivery of VJ! If she had joined SPB in giving her own (or the MD's) variations too, then may be I would have found the song to be a little overdose!
  
  You cannot compare "Naane Naana" and "Indru Vandha Indha Mayakkam". The latter by its mere tune gives a sexual feeling. But "Naane Naana" could only be likened to - for eg - a song like "ooru sanam". So, I don't see any problems in its delivery!
  
  Now, coming back to the thread's topic... indha maadhiri threads-aiye ban pannanum.
  
  
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.205) on: Fri Dec 21 17:38:37 EST 2001
  
  You liked VJ's plain rendition ? I am happy for you. But you may want to use the word simplistic next time. There is something called as savouring the tune and rendering it, which no classical training/knowledge can give a singer and that was thoroughly absent. Comparing 'nAnE nAnA' and 'ooru sanam'? Heaven knows where you pulled the comparison from. Anyway, if you liked her singing there, I am not going to dispute it.
  
  Your comment on 'manmOhanA..' by any composition or melody standards I was making a reference to Lata's singing not the composition. The effortless ease through which she glides through those passages is to be noted, amazing fluency.
  
  Coming back to the topic, PS's voice IMO peaked during the 'aththAn ennaththAn' days ('61) and continued to remain good till the early 70s after which she spoilt many a duet with TMS. I guess MSV popularized VJ at the right time in TFM.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.80.174) on: Fri Dec 21 22:07:12 EST 2001
  
  Karthi:
  
  Saying Lata's singing in "manamohana bade jhoothhe" is not special, is blasphemous. But I cannot understand how Lata has come into this discussion when we are talking about PS and VJ. (If u want another classical by Lata, here it is
  http://parrikar.prohosting.com/sarang/aajaa.ram
  http://parrikar.prohosting.com/sarang/jhananana.ram
  http://parrikar.prohosting.com/munimji.ram
  http://parrikar.prohosting.com/munimji.ram
  http://parrikar.prohosting.com/telmalish.ram
  http://parrikar.prohosting.com/gaudsarang/hamdard.ram
  
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.35) on: Sat Dec 22 00:59:11 EST 2001
  
  "savouring the tune and rendering it, which no classical training/knowledge can give a singer and that was thoroughly absent"
  
  -- And that's why "Maanasa SanchararE", "MegamE MegamE", "Vinnil Thavazhum Tharagai Ellam", "Yaaradhu" and the like became popular, right?
  
  Anyway, going back to Lata, there's no flaw in Lata's singing, but I was not impressed simply because there was no food for (my) ears/hearing in that song except for Lata's ease of singing --that is to say, to me this song is not enough to write off VJ -- which was done by Observer!
  
  "Mazhai Kaalamum Pani Kaalamum" - I would rate this to be a better song by all means than Manamohana.
  
  avr, I will definitely hear the songs that you have posted, thanks!
  
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.205) on: Sat Dec 22 02:44:55 EST 2001
  
  Karthi, in all your postings, certain unmentionable qualities shine forth in all their glory. Why don't get original for a change and stop talking about a song's popularity or my "audacity" in putting forth my views....and for the umpteenth time, I have not written off VJ or anybody else.
  
  avr, I did search for the telugu song in musicindiaonline but could not find it. If possible, please provide the link for the English song too.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.199.158.120) on: Sat Dec 22 11:00:46 EST 2001
  
  observer:
  
  happiest moment: film bili hendthi (language kannada)
  http://musicindiaonline.com/music/l/YY0000011G
  
  aanathi neeyara : film swathikiraNam (language telugu)
  http://musicindiaonline.com/music/l/XY00000I0N
  
  
• From: TNS (@ 203.199.248.191) on: Sun Dec 23 02:44:54 EST 2001
  
  P.SUSHEELA IS LEGEND.PS ,from 1952 to 1991 for nearly 40 years singing continuously in telugu and tamil films and was holding NO1 position in telugu for 40 years and in tamil for 30 years.She has the record of having sung maximum number of songs in tamil and telugu films and no male or female singers are near to her numbers in both TFM and TEFM...Even her close counter part Balasubramaniam was NO1 in tamil for 20 years and in telugu for 30 years and yet to reach PS'S number of songs in tamil or telugu....With the span of singing career of new singers not going over ten years PS will remain unbeatable in tamil and telugu for ever among all male and female singers....Hence do not compare this totally cinematic singer with Meera bajan singers like Vaanijayaram....TNS.
  
  

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