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Apart from Ilayaraja who is well versed in Tamil literature, no music director understands simple Tamil words leave alone poetry

Topic started by Guru (@ 129.49.80.172) on Sun Sep 29 07:09:39 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Quality of film songs has gone down: Lyricists
Our Staff Reporter
Chennai, Sept 29:

Leading film lyricists who participated in the centenary celebrations of lyricist and poet Udumalai Narayanakavi organised by the Sahitya Akademi and Kavya Circle in the city yesterday were unanimous in their opinion that the quality of film songs has degenerated. While veteran lyricist Vali candidly remarked that films had nothing to do with aesthetics or arts and that it was purely a business, popular lyricist Vairamuthu blamed it on the changing times. However, poetess Thamarai provided some comfort to those seeking improvement in film songs when she said lyricists should not bow to the whims and fancies of producers and directors who expect abject verses from them. Thamarai said she declined to pen a song on fashion shows and beauty contests recently. Although she had earned a bad name by such acts, she had successfully avoided writing vulgar and obscene lines. Lyricists should have social responsibility as films and its songs have considerable impact on the people especially youth, she said in a soft but determined tone. Film industry was not purely a business and it had artistic value too, she observed. She hailed Narayanakavi as a poet who propagated rationalism and social reforms and vowed to follow in his footsteps.

Thamarai said all Tamil poets from Ilango who created the epic Silappadhikaran were emotionally attached to Cauvery. Cauvery is not only a river. It is our cultural symbol and the origin of of our civilisation. Poets should be in the forefront of an agitation to secure the release of Cauvery water, which is our right, Thamarai said.

Vairamuthu who spoke later said the deterioration of films songs was a reflection of the changing times. He speculated that he would have penned good songs with quality in both content and form if he was in the film industry four decades earlier. He came out with a revelation that the most popular lyricist Kannadasan had planned to take up journalism after he returned from US (where he died) suggesting that the most successful lyricist who reigned supreme in the Tamil celluloid world was not able to cope with the pressures of modern film industry.

Vairamuthu justified English words in Tamil songs saying that they were used only for humour and fun. Only Tamil words were used for serious situations, he said.

Unlike Vairamuthu who offered several excuses and tried to defend the lyricists, Vali who spoke earlier said film songs were penned for loaves and fishes. Those who claim that they are doing yeoman service to arts and literature by producing films are deceiving people. It is all defrauding the common man. I am in this field for more than 45 years and I know what is happening, he observed.

The other lyricist Muthulingam who also spoke, attributed the deplorable standard of film songs to the lack of Tamil literary knowledge among music directors, producers and directors. Apart from Ilayaraja who is well versed in Tamil literature, no music director understands simple Tamil words leave alone poetry, he remarked.

Muthulingam recalled the achievements of the Justice Party and the association of Narayanakavi with the Dravidian movement. Earlier, a book titled Udumalai Narayanakavi written by K Shanmugasundaram was released by Vali and the first copy was received by Lion V Balakrishnan. Muthulingam also released Udumala Narayana Kaviyin Paadalgal, a collection of Narayanakavis songs. Malayalam writer S Gitendranath delivered the introductory address.

http://www.newstodaynet.com/29sep/ld8.htm

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: i(sai)o(sai);-) (@ 68.13.243.166) on: Wed Oct 2 16:14:47 EDT 2002
  
  Incidentally, and ironically, IR had penned "un kuththama...en kuththama..." ;-)
  naanu indha vilayaatukae varla-ba:)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 2 17:19:37 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz.. I quoted IRs lyric writing abilities to prove his knowledge of tamil grammar. If IR was interested in writing lyrics, wont he be doing that full time ? He has clearly said that kannadhAsan is the standard. I dont think IR tries to write lyrics for complicated sandham or romantic poetry like vizhiyil vizhundu. If my observation is right, he always picks simple tunes but either sad (un kuthama kuthama) or totatlly fun situations like (nilA athu vAnathu melE). I think he prefers pulamai piththan, vaali for serious stuff. If I remember right, he preferred muthulingam for kutti because he has many daughters and so will be able to appreciate the situation.
  
  It is not good to typecast IR as only a MD and he should stick to just that. If he can get a whole movie (nAdodi thenRal) to become a hit with his lyrics he is surely going to try writing some now and then (same goes for singing too). Listen to kAthal jaathi..All lyrics by himself. Personally, do I prefer his lyrics over others ? The answer is what I said earlier..I consider him good, that is all. I cant be very definitive and give quantitative answer to something as subjective as this.
  
  I do respect and acknowledge the right to your opinion.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 2 17:23:16 EDT 2002
  
  BTW, I think IR's literary skills are more than elementary !!!!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Oct 2 17:42:56 EDT 2002
  
  naaz: theriyAththanamA ezhudhiTTEn viTTudunga :-)). i am very bored to write in the df. i agree with most of what you have said. i have absolutely no opinion on IR-the_lyricist because whatever songs he might have written, they dont seem to stand apart from the rest to catch my attention. from my personal interactions, i know that he is well versed in tamizh literature. as kiru pointed out, i too believe that IR follows tamizh music principles quite strictly.
  
  i didn't read what guru has written (or c&p-ed) and i don't intend to read.
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.184) on: Wed Oct 2 17:50:34 EDT 2002
  
  Illayaraja is streets ahead in literature compared to rest of the musicians. In the post-kanandasan era lyrics in his songs are far better than anybody else. One reason is his literature knowledge. I am not sure if there is any thread about lyrics in IR songs. If not we can discuss it here.
  
  
• From: selva (@ 172.183.135.229) on: Wed Oct 2 20:24:52 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz,
  
  I read your posts and the most passionate of all that I have seen in newtfmpage for sometime. I thoroughly enjoyed. Yours, is a comeback as well.
  
  I have seen IR's creations as a pursuit towards perfection and a mockery to perfection. don't get me wrong, but both can coexist, and that's Reality.
  
  Having felt what he can do with Music, can there be doubt, about his pursuit towards mastery over language, be it music or phonetics. For those dense in intellect, isn't phonetics better understood than an abstraction called 'Music'.
  
  You chose this and I didn't realize how profound this was till you brought this up,
  
  'Soul is a temple, and there will always rise a song,
  to the goddess who lives in this temple, I will use music as a flower to drape her everyday'.
  
  Naaz, my dear friend, do you understand this?. My guess is that you don't!! Misplaced passion
  
  
  
  
• From: selva (@ 172.183.135.229) on: Wed Oct 2 20:32:29 EDT 2002
  
  reference to above,
  
  "Idhayam Oru Kovil, Adhil Udhayam Oru Padal,
  Idhil Vazhum Devi Nee, Isaiyai Malarai Naalum Sootuven."
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Oct 2 20:48:16 EDT 2002
  
  Kiru:
  I had no intention of pursuing this discussion, as the tragectory of this thread is quite evident and clear now. However, I am now compelled to dispel a few points in your post above (with all due respect, of course):
  
  There is no disputing IRs grasp of Tamizh Literature or Grammar. And there is no second-guessing what IR will be remembered for either. But here's what I find jarring: Those MDs who preceded IR are being dismissed as ignorant and nonpossessing of literary/lyrical skills - all on the basis of sticking to their primary practice as Composers. How do we know they were not closet lyricists? And how do we account for all those compositions (grammatical and metrical) that still linger for their lyricism AND music? The logic seems to be: But they did not write any lyrics for any of their songs - so they couldn't have been well-versed in literature or lyrical appreciation! That's an incredible way to make a case.
  
  I don't have to typecast IR. You have said what I have been trying to say in the very first line of your response: "Wouldn't he be doing it full-time?" And, we all know what IRs full-time preference is.
  What's more, you go ahead and also declare IRs "lyrical" limitations (serious so and so, social/familial so and so etc.) Would we be quite so generous with someone who exclusively practiced lyric-writing full-time and said "fun songs and simple sad songs only, please?" Wouldn't they be laughed out of the recording studio before you could say "Vandhuttan Paatezhudha!"
  
  But here is what you still don't delienate in your post: What do you mean by "good song" and "good job?" Is there an implied "giving his limitations he does" before those phrases? I don't know what "good" means, the way you use it.
  
  hihi :-) :
  
  Please don't apologise. Discussing in the true "spirit" of the topic is always something to be applauded. Everybody benefits - if the perspectives are indeed pertinent and rigorous.
  
  Awe:
  
  There is a previous thread that has discussed IRs "lyric-writing" capabilities. Please check it out.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Oct 2 20:59:35 EDT 2002
  
  Selva -
  Thanks :-)
  Yes, I do speak, understand and write tamizh. I also translate from tamizh to english. And vice versa.
  So spare me the "misplaced passion" bit. That's exactly what I have been arguing against here. You obviously can't see the wood for the trees. :-)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 2 22:30:35 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz..no problem..I am cool. Please dont get worked up too much yourself too. Let me try to explain what I feel on this. IR has a keen mind. He can zero-in on the fundamentals of any field, if he puts his heart into it. Music was his first, he dealt with lyrics and his own brother was writing lyrics so this is not something totally alien to him. Next he picked up photography as a hobby. I am told he also understands many languages and including sanskrit because of his spiritual interest. Based on this I have the impression he is a very 'get down to the fundamentals' kind of person. The difference between a scientist and a person working in the industry. A good programmer is not necessarily a great computer scientist. A good engineer is not necessarily a great physicist. If you see, eye-to-eye with me on my assessment of the personality of IR, you will not have a doubt, he knows tamil grammar, sandham rules, ethugai/mOnai, different types of metre (venbA). I dont think anybody here is disputing the talents of past MDs (For eg. TRajender, wrote lyrics and set them to tune himself) . It is the new ones who are not well-versed in these. Actually, I feel, IR was introduced to the structured way of composing by his gurus MSV/GKV, including the nuances of tamil poetry (and ofcourse the lyricists themselves. In one speech, IR says he picked up tamil as it rubbed off on him from people like ponnadiyAn (?)). The earlier MDs I am sure knew tamil literature very well, they can quote a kuRal or a couplet from rAmayanam easily. Similarly, lyricists like kannadhAsan also knew carnatic music. Majority of the people in the film industry can recognise a rAgam.
  
  If you want to know what good song is - I will give you an example - idhayam oru koil is a good one. Something like Oh pOdu is bad. Simple isnt it. What do you think about ? maratha vechchavan song ?
  
  It does not matter a lyricist should be an allrounder all the time. Even today, various lyricists write for different occasions. Read the recent interview of pulamaippitthan, where he says he wants to restrict himself to certain kind. Why cannot IR restrict himself to certain kinds and have others write other songs ? Mostly, I think he writes only when he feels like.
  
  Again, we are straying from the topic that understanding of tamil is very abysmal with the current crop of MDs. The industry is now being run by people with only rudimentary knowledge of literature or music. We have too many lightweights getting away by talking fancy non-technical terms, like 'reaching out to the youth', 'need to create a new sound' etc etc..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Oct 2 23:52:18 EDT 2002
  
  Thanks, Kiru.
  
  

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