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Illayaraja or Rahman ?

Topic started by Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on Thu Dec 7 09:06:29 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

waiting for ur answers :)

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 16:57:33 EST 2001
  
  Illayaraja himself had written and sung in one of his songs in Idhaya koil "Raagangal Kodi kodi edhuvum pudhidhillai" in the song " Idhayam oru koil adhil udhaam oru paadal"
  
  
• From: S (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Thu Feb 22 17:31:32 EST 2001
  
  There are only seven swaras and 72 mela kartha raagas in our music
  
  This is the bull s**test argument given for coping a song. The English alphabet has 26 letters. Thousands of books are written every year. Can you blame the language for lack of writer's originality?
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Feb 22 17:34:10 EST 2001
  
  Arun, explain to me why they become rock and roll type songs...coz this is news to me. I play the guitar / bass / and the keyboards for a rock band. In fact if u explain to me why the songs are rock and roll, I may even include it the list!!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Thu Feb 22 17:59:52 EST 2001
  
  Fliflo, if u could fing the audio links to soem of the "originals" u have listed we could think about including them in the copied songs list/page provided they are indeed inspired. if not ur list is just another addition to innumerable other ones posted by DFers that dont carry any credibility.
  
  I agree with that song u mentioned about RDB. i think u were talking about "hame pyar de pyar de pyar de de" from Sharaabi. i had entioned this sometime back. its not a copy, perhaps a mild inspiration. again I havent heard the english original.
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 18:24:16 EST 2001
  
  Mr. S
  Ur comparisn was very poor and weak........
  U tell me how many unrepeated words are there in these stories with 26 alphabets.....
  U shouldnt compare the stories but u should compare the words in the stories.......
  
  MR Swamiji,
  Please look into the drumming style of these songs... not essentialy a rock and roll song should have the typical bass guitar note that rumbm has.i dont know how to write it.......
  U should probably listen to the drumming style and the singing style of these songs like Pudhu mappilaikku ...... starts with bababa bababa re....which is a rock and roll note...
  please look into those songs in the same angle u will find it out
  Can u please tell me in which band do u play??
  I might have played the drums for the same band!!!!
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 18:27:11 EST 2001
  
  Mr. S,
  For ur info we are talking abt a genius who had composed a new raaga by the name "panjamugi"
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 18:31:42 EST 2001
  
  Swamii,
  If u see what ive written ive clearly mentioned that roja poo and anjali anjali are rock and roll beat songs.......... guitar pieces are typical IR types......
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Feb 22 18:49:02 EST 2001
  
  Arun,
  No you havent played drums for our band iam sure coz my band members are from my college.
  Anyways, let me explain a little on the rythm of those 2 songs.
  Roja poo has a 6/8 rythm. Which is a kind you will hear in "kanmani anboda kadalan", "oho megam vandadho", "aasai adhigam vechu". Likewise many Big-Band rock and roll rythms have the same beat. But the beat alone does not make a song rock and roll. A Rock and Roll has 7th chords (or its substitute) in its "Cycle of 5ths". I am sure you all know what it means. An example is "kalam kalamaga" in punnagai mannan. If you know chords and its structures, you will understand what iam talking about. So eventhough (from a rythm point of view) it might resemble a few rock and roll songs, it is not even close to being one.
  Listen to Queen's "Crazy little thing called love" - it is rock and roll style. In tamil, listen to "Style Style thaan" (faintly) or the punnagai mannan song i mentioned - that is rock and roll.
  My 2 cents...
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 18:49:19 EST 2001
  
  MR. Swamiji
  Please hear the following statements and tell me how guitar, violin and flute BGMs are
  
  Panivizhum Malarvanam ------- Ninaivellam Nithya
  Excellent Base guitar throughout the song, Guitar chords back up, Hi Hat of drums support the entire song except for few rolls.....
  Guitar played like veena in the middle of the song,
  Exceptional Violin and Flute Combo in Prelude,and both the BGM
  Violin back up for the entire song.....
  Pleas epost me ur feedback.. honestly
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 18:55:33 EST 2001
  
  I did know that , that's y i mentioned those songs as secondary to rumbum bum. I dint say it is from the guitar's perspective.Simillarily if u see the song pudhu mappilaikku from apporva sagotharargal has the rock and roll note in the composition of the tune but that is not reflected in guitar pieces to my knowledge........
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 19:05:17 EST 2001
  
  Mr. Swamiji,
  IF u dont mind can u tell me in which college did u study?
  
  
• From: arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 19:11:56 EST 2001
  
  Add one more song to the Rock and Roll list
  "Sutham enbadhu namkku sorgam ulla veedu dhan"
  from nammavar it has got the seventh chord
  
  
• From: arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 19:13:57 EST 2001
  
  What about Oru poongavanam from agni natchathiram????
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Feb 22 19:15:35 EST 2001
  
  Needless to say, it is a wonderful song. You must remember that this song came out when Disco was at its peak. Hence the style (to me) is dance/disco. Typical of that song, and one more in the same movie (nee thaane yenthan pon vasantham) has wah-wah guitar...has electric guitar fill-ins that resemble any disco "saturday-night-fever" types...etc etc.
  The scale (or raagam?) of pani vizhum resembes a "qawali" btw...
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Feb 22 19:18:19 EST 2001
  
  IT-BHU, Varanasi...
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 167.24.104.150) on: Thu Feb 22 19:21:17 EST 2001
  
  wow i was just abt to say abt nee dhanae en pon vasantham........ oh man that's too much of a composition a complicate timing for a guitar chord and the hi hat combo in the first BGM.......... our band guitarist regularly miss that timing whenever we play that song..........What a composition ....... that's y i say IR is in uncomparable heights..... I dont get the same pleasure when playing ARR songs....
  I dnt know y?
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Feb 22 19:51:03 EST 2001
  
  Good song...
  Well I dont want to get into IRR ARR crap... everyone has their own taste. I like both, although IR was the first to impress me. IR is a proven genius and lets keep that a very simple fact.
  ARR is good too, lets not belittle his music as it wouldnt be justifyable. ARR is very-very intelligent...and as one of my friends pointed out, is bringing out quite good melodies. I think it is a pleasure listening to him...but if you want to play his numbers - it is not as simple as keeping the rythm constant and strumming a guitar. You need hi-fi gadgets....bass guitarist like keith peters, drummer like sivamani. Because ARR brought so much impromptu/individualistic music...so to imitate them is kinda difficult unless you are really good. Why, sequencing his song is a pain coz you have to listen to each bar as there would be some change here or there. ARR wants to be different, and he is...
  IR is no doubt done so much for music, and he will always be remembered - lets just take him away from our "comparison" bickering...its simply not worth the time.
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 172.132.201.252) on: Thu Feb 22 20:41:12 EST 2001
  
  please tell me which song has more complicated bass guitar flow and changes than roja poo aadivandhadhu? dont tell me imitating IR songs are easy and can be done by a normal musician and u need a better guitarists for ARR. Guitar, Violin and flute are most complicated in IR's songs...... in the case of drums, ARR does a lot of mixing work to add a lot of effects and buy lot of packages to play them in the song........
  tell me which ARR song is played with a manual drums???? its all done thro sequencers and packages.......not even percussion pads.....for a very complicated drumming song listen to BGM of
  Netru Indha neram Tic Tic Tic and one more song in the same movie i dont remember what was that...
  IR believed that a percussion instrument is just to accompany a song ad concentrated more on other instruments which is not the trend now........
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Feb 22 21:26:11 EST 2001
  
  I think you like this roja song...well, it is a good song with good variations I agree.
  Complicated rythm/bass (in older times) depended on how good a musician can play. Complicated (for a musician) means - "difficult to play". I never said that IR has not produced a complicated pattern. All I meant was ARRs patterns are difficult to reproduce unless you are a good player. For that matter any IRs classics are also difficult to reproduce and needs good musicians.
  I think you accredit all of ARRs works to sequencers and packages which is not true. I think he is way too talented to reuse old stuff, else you or I can do the same, and become another ARR. I think he is a perfectionist to the core and concentrates on every detail right from production to recording. He gives his best, thats why u hear so much quality. Please once again, iam not comparing. I think ARR is a gift to music, thats all I care.
  (the reason why I said sequencing his songs are difficult because I do them myself - and theres so many parameters you need to input in order to sound like the original - and no, he doesnt reuse sounds - till date I have been hunting for sound samples that he used...to me it seems like he samples his own sounds - a trememdous tonal sense which is unique to ARR).
  My point is, we are prone to simplifying too much of a person because we are not exposed to few things. If you do the things which ARR does, you will know how good he is...
  Again, there is no scope for finding a "comparision" in what i wrote ;)
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 130.203.168.154) on: Thu Feb 22 21:51:14 EST 2001
  
  Swamiji;
  
  HJ is another ARR like ...no no ARR himself. How about YSR....I see a lot either reproducing or producing identical songs. Infact, YSR gives importance to rythm. Since you have seen only one ARR so far you ironically say his compositions are complicated. That has started becoming a common practice among new guys...IR is unique and matchless...no second opinion...
  
  Donno much about your hi-fi discussion. keep going...
  
  
• From: Arun (@ 172.132.201.252) on: Thu Feb 22 21:56:03 EST 2001
  
  I agree with u that ARR is a good musicians nothing to dispute in that.... he is also a student of trinity college of music and he cant be a dumbo.....but IR is a gold medalist in the same college in 1982.Rehman doesnt write music like IR but still compose them by hearing them. Ive played lots of ARR's songs like Kalloori saalai, Muquala , Sonia and many of them and I did know what were the parameters I entered to make the song sound audible to the audience.
  
  He uses a lot of packages that's been admitted by him in many interviews. The last few bars of beats in muquala is the same package that alban had used.
  Since u dont jhave so many digital eqipments he has it is difficult for u to reproduce that sound. I agree that he sound engineer his songs to that extent that it cannot be reproduced on a stage.
  
  IR writes every note he composes.......
  Though he is not a good sound engineer!
  
  

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